freediver wrote on Dec 7^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:


I think we can all agree that 18c of the RDA is clumsily worded, as clearly the intent of the law is to protect against racial vilification - and in reality that is the only thing that is ever pursued in regards to this subsection. Someone may "offend" you with his arguments about an ethnicity of which you are a member of - but it may not have been done with the intent to vilify. And the key point is that this sort of "offense" and even "insult" is protected by the provisions in 18d. Thus why Bill Leak has never been gagged via 18c - even though he demonstrably has offended a lot of Aboriginal people.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 8^th, 2016 at 8:51am:


So how is it that Toben was not protected by 18d, cii? Did they put him in jail for being unfair, or for not believing what he said?

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 8^th, 2016 at 5:31pm:


"DEFAMATION ACT 2005 - LONG TITLE

An Act to enact in New South Wales provisions to promote uniform laws of defamation in Australia; to repeal the Defamation Act 1974 ; to amend the Crimes Act 1900 in relation to criminal defamation;

The new act trumps everything else Brian.... 

Karnal wrote on Dec 8^th, 2016 at 9:09pm:


I think the entire 'holocaust-denial industry' is driven by political motives, and thats the whole issue here. Make a public speech in Australia arguing that the Armenian genocide never happened - and watch what happens - nothing. Do the same for the holocaust and there will be political forces coming down on you like a tonne of bricks - with the RDA in hand. There are powerful and well funded pro-Israel lobbies constantly pushing this agenda, and both major parties are deeply in bed with them. Like I said, its become a special category - and its precisely because of political motives.

Belgarion wrote on Dec 9^th, 2016 at 7:34am:


I used to wonder this too Belgarion, but lets face it - holocaust denial hasn't become any more credible in society because of these gags. The Frederic Toben's and David Irvings haven't become martyrs of free speech despite both being gaoled for what they have said and written. And lets not be naive and ignore the incredibly effective propaganda machine behind the holocaust industry. The fact that Brandis can boldly come out and say straight up that holocaust denial is automatically equivalent to racial vilification - without even raising eyebrows says it all really. We've all bought into it, we've become conditioned to think that gagging holocaust denial is an acceptable course of action - despite otherwise passionately defending free speech. And its even worse in Europe - understandably so since thats where it all happened. I never could get over the sheer brazen absurdity of French politicians walking hand in hand down the street in solidarity with Charlie Hebdo and the attack on their freedom - while at the very same time a French anti-semite was getting his door kicked down by police over some nasty words he said about jews on facebook. I kid you not, this really happened, look it up.

A disclaimer to what I just wrote about how gagging "works" in terms of not making Toben and Irving martyrs. Where that doesn't apply is outside the west, particular in the muslim world where holocaust denial is high to the point (in some places) of being socially acceptable. But this is merely an extension of the cultural-political war between the muslim world and the western world - centering on the legitimacy of Israel. Where the 'holocaust industry' and all the associated propaganda and intellectual intolerance that goes with it merely reinforces their perception of the hypocricy and sinister motives of the west in oppressing the muslim world.

And so one could say that its the muslim world that represents your "underground" where western belligerance against holocaust denial has created that "credulous audience".

Karnal wrote on Dec 8^th, 2016 at 9:09pm:


Abbott dropped the revision or repeal of 18c due to pressure from Jewish groups.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 9^th, 2016 at 8:23am:


We wouldn't know who Toben was if not for the fact he was jailed for denying the holocaust. It took them about ten years to do it, and he milked it for free publicity the whole way. It doesn't resonate with most Australians because of the message itself (and we are not compelled by our religion to think up reasons to continue slaughtering Jews, just like Muhammed did). 18c has helped Toben overcome the difficulties of getting holocaust denial back into the public debate.

I also think the Islamic victimhood industry is just as much to blame for the current state of affairs. A classic example of this is Gandalf's insistence that all Islamophobia is based on racism.