Australian Politics Forum - there is no climate change debate.

lee

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Re: there is no climate change debate.
Reply #45 - Dec 20^th, 2016 at 10:13pm

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 20^th, 2016 at 10:00pm:

Hell, now your back to "Natural Variation" i.e god wiggling his fingers!

Nothing to do with God.

Te climate has varied for thousands of years. No sign of CO2 being the cause.

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 20^th, 2016 at 10:00pm:

Developed countries sacrifice billions of dollars in cheap energy to reduce their carbon output.

Is that supposed to be proof?

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 20^th, 2016 at 10:00pm:

And you sit there and tell me that I have to provide evidence.

Yep, prove CO2 is the driver. The null hypothesis is natural variation. hat's the way most science works. "Climate Science"^TM wants to change the burden of proof.

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 20^th, 2016 at 10:00pm:

So after 60 years of research by thousands of independent scientists the only plausible cause for the increasing temperatures is CO2 released by man.

An appeal to authority. That's cute.

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Pho Huc

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Re: there is no climate change debate.
Reply #46 - Dec 20^th, 2016 at 10:19pm

None of my points were proof.
They were an appeal to reasonableness, an attempt to explain to you why I felt the honus of proof was on you, given that you have the divergent opinion from the establishment.

You state that all prevailing scientific opinions are wrong.
When I ask you to prove it you have nothing.
At least they offer me evidence.

How could any reasonable person agree with someone who can provide nothing other than criticism of people who are doing real research?

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lee

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Re: there is no climate change debate.
Reply #47 - Dec 20^th, 2016 at 10:36pm

Climate Science is still in its infancy. They can't even determine what effects the interactions between various elements will be.

Have a look at IPCC AR5 Chapter 9 final pdf page 818 or 78 of 128 in your browser to see what is excluded from most models.

Planck Feedback, Water Vapour Feedback, Lapse rate Feedback, Surface Albedo, Cloud Feedback.

https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter09_FINAL.pdf

And tell us how much the scientists know.

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Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: there is no climate change debate. Reply #48 - Dec 20^th, 2016 at 10:57pm I think you got mixed up Lee. That posts in the wrong thread....... Take as long as you need
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17980 Gender:	Re: there is no climate change debate. Reply #49 - Dec 20^th, 2016 at 11:28pm Pho Huc wrote on Dec 20^th, 2016 at 10:57pm: I think you got mixed up Lee. That posts in the wrong thread....... Take as long as you need Nope, Your the one claiming that the 60 years of climate science has proven of AGW. But you won't read the report,
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Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: there is no climate change debate. Reply #50 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 12:12am Thats a different kind of mixed up. I mean your literally mixed up-you posted the same response to two different threads. I know your a bit short of information that supports your opinions but surely you don't have to be that parsimonious!
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lee

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Re: there is no climate change debate.
Reply #51 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 10:29am

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 12:12am:

Thats a different kind of mixed up.
I mean your literally mixed up-you posted the same response to two different threads.
I know your a bit short of information that supports your opinions but surely you don't have to be that parsimonious!

So delusional, thinking the same post on different threads is somehow not relevant. Cheesy

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Pho Huc

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Re: there is no climate change debate.
Reply #52 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 11:54am

None of my points were proof.
They were an appeal to reasonableness, an attempt to explain to you why I felt the honus of proof was on you, given that you have the divergent opinion from the establishment.

You state that all prevailing scientific opinions are wrong.
When I ask you to prove it you have nothing.
At least they offer me evidence.

How could any reasonable person agree with someone who can provide nothing other than criticism of people who are doing real research?

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lee

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Re: there is no climate change debate.
Reply #53 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 1:43pm

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 11:54am:

None of my points were proof.

You got that bit right.

Figure 10.5 | Assessed likely ranges (whiskers) and their mid-points (bars) for attributable warming trends over the 1951–2010 period due to well-mixed greenhouse gases, other
anthropogenic forcings (OA), natural forcings (NAT), combined anthropogenic forcings (ANT) and internal variability. The Hadley Centre/Climatic Research Unit gridded surface
temperature data set 4 (HadCRUT4) observations are shown in black with the 5 to 95% uncertainty range due to observational uncertainty in this record (Morice et al., 2012).

This is a direct copy of IPCC AR5 chapter 10 final pdf. Figure 10.5. at page 18.

https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter10_FINAL.pdf

Note how, according to the IPCC, there are no natural forcings or internal variations. It is all man's fault.

However, in other papers -

"Climate variability without forcing – called internal variability, such as El Nino-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) fluctuations in the Pacific Ocean, is the dominant source of internal climate variability on decadal to centennial time scales."

So they deny the existence of them. "Climate Science"^TM strikes again.

Edit: The name of the Chapter -"Detection and Attribution of Climate Change: from Global to Regional"

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« Last Edit: Dec 21^st, 2016 at 8:18pm by lee »

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TheFunPolice Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9009 waggawagga Gender:	Re: there is no climate change debate. Reply #54 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 6:27pm OUT OF CONTEXT aka false argumentum [next!! ]
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lee

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Re: there is no climate change debate.
Reply #55 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 6:44pm

TheFunPolice wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 6:27pm:

OUT OF CONTEXT aka false argumentum [next

What's out of context? The IPCC is supposed to be the font of all knowledge, on things climate.

Accordingly, to them there is no natural climate forcing.

But -

"They found that, averaged over the entire globe, the evapotranspiration effects of plants account for 16% of warming of the land surface, with greenhouse effects accounting for the rest. But in some regions, such as parts of North America and eastern Asia, it can be more than 25% of the total warming. '

https://carnegiescience.edu/news/co2-effects-plants-increase-global-warming-0

So that is a natural forcing. But it got lost.

Perhaps you can post a rebuttal.

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« Last Edit: Dec 21^st, 2016 at 8:18pm by lee »

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Johnnie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12485 Gender:	Re: there is no climate change debate. Reply #56 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 7:02pm If the plankton die we die, we are one finely balanced ecosystem and nobody knows the impact of an emerging human population ripping this place apart, we may be the only living thing in the universe, we have a duty of care to be more responsible and ensure life continues. But why the long face.
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lee

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Re: there is no climate change debate.
Reply #57 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 8:14pm

Johnnie wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 7:02pm:

If the plankton die we die, we are one finely balanced ecosystem and nobody knows the impact of an emerging human population ripping this place apart, we may be the only living thing in the universe, we have a duty of care to be more responsible and ensure life continues. But why the long face.

Apparently plankton is growing rapidly.

'Rapid plankton growth in ocean seen as sign of carbon dioxide loading '

http://hub.jhu.edu/2015/11/26/rapid-plankton-growth-could-signal-climate-change/

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Pho Huc

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Re: there is no climate change debate.
Reply #58 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 9:03pm

lee wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 1:43pm:

Figure 10.5 | Assessed likely ranges (whiskers) and their mid-points (bars) for attributable warming trends over the 1951–2010 period due to well-mixed greenhouse gases, other
anthropogenic forcings (OA), natural forcings (NAT), combined anthropogenic forcings (ANT) and internal variability. The Hadley Centre/Climatic Research Unit gridded surface
temperature data set 4 (HadCRUT4) observations are shown in black with the 5 to 95% uncertainty range due to observational uncertainty in this record (Morice et al., 2012).

This is a direct copy of IPCC AR5 chapter 10 final pdf. Figure 10.5. at page 18.

https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter10_FINAL.pdf

Note how, according to the IPCC, there are no natural forcings or internal variations. It is all man's fault.

However, in other papers -

"Climate variability without forcing – called internal variability, such as El Nino-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) fluctuations in the Pacific Ocean, is the dominant source of internal climate variability on decadal to centennial time scales."

So they deny the existence of them. "Climate Science"^TM strikes again.

Edit: The name of the Chapter -"Detection and Attribution of Climate Change: from Global to Regional"

Please note that initially Lee linked to the credible IPCC report.

This makes it look likes he knows his stuff

Notice that he has not linked to a credible document that supports his statement.

This is because he does not know his stuff.

But he rrreeeaaalllllllyyy doesn't want you to know that.

Please Lee, provide one piece of credible research that supports anything other than CO2 as the primary drivers of climate change or remain silent.

Im not asking you for anything that any rational person wouldn't have.

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lee

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Re: there is no climate change debate.
Reply #59 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 10:45pm

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 9:03pm:

Notice that he has not linked to a credible document that supports his statement.

My bad.

https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter10_FINAL.pdf

Try page 28 of the same report. para 3

[quote author=deepideas link=1481690951/58#58 date=1482318183

Im not asking you for anything that any rational person wouldn't have.

[/quote]

And now you are claiming to be a rational person. Cheesy

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