Australian Politics Forum - What is racism?

polite_gandalf

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #105 - Jan 1^st, 2017 at 9:33pm

freediver wrote on Jan 1^st, 2017 at 5:55pm:

Wow, Gandalf really does not know what racism means. Hew has worked so hard to convince himself that there is no such thing as race that he has had to discard the meaning of racism also.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 31^st, 2016 at 7:49pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2016 at 8:54am:

Racism still exists even if you don't think races do Gandalf.

So what is 'racism' then FD? What are the allowed parameters?

Nevermind, FD believes Asians are a "race". This coming from someone who mocks people for "discarding meaning".

To be fair though, FD is not intentionally 'discarding meaning' so much as having no clue to start with.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49389 At my desk.	Re: What is racism? Reply #106 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 7:50am polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm: "racism" has to be redefined when its root word "race" literally has no meaning. So how should we redefine racism Gandalf? Mocking people's religion and 'racial markers' like clothes?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #107 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:22pm

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 7:50am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

"racism" has to be redefined when its root word "race" literally has no meaning.

So how should we redefine racism Gandalf? Mocking people's religion and 'racial markers' like clothes?

I haven't redefined it FD, its a widely accepted definition: racism is prejudice against members of different cultures and ethnicities through a homogenising 'othering' process, based on social and culturally rooted negative myths and stereotypes (eg all muslims are inbred/retarded) - which serve to denigrate the "other" and give a sense of superiority to the "in-group".

See this definition makes sense - because we don't have to twist ourselves into knots deciding what is and isn't referring to "race" - when we can't even define what race is to start with. Case in point: insisting that prejudice against muslims can never be racism because muslims are not a race, while at the same time insisting that 'arabia for arabs' (a slogan that has nothing to do with 'race' either) is "blatant racism".

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Fuzzball Gold Member Offline Posts: 6381 Australia Gender:	Re: What is racism? Reply #108 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:23pm Islam preaches racism, so you should know it off by heart.
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Frank

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #109 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 7:50am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

"racism" has to be redefined when its root word "race" literally has no meaning.

So how should we redefine racism Gandalf? Mocking people's religion and 'racial markers' like clothes?

I haven't redefined it FD, its a widely accepted definition: racism is prejudice against members of different cultures and ethnicities through a homogenising 'othering' process, based on social and culturally rooted negative myths and stereotypes (eg all muslims are inbred/retarded) - which serve to denigrate the "other" and give a sense of superiority to the "in-group".

See this definition makes sense - because we don't have to twist ourselves into knots deciding what is and isn't referring to "race" - when we can't even define what race is to start with. Case in point: insisting that prejudice against muslims can never be racism because muslims are not a race, while at the same time insisting that 'arabia for arabs' (a slogan that has nothing to do with 'race' either) is "blatant racism".

Are the Jews in the Koran a race?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #110 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 2:01pm

Frank wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 7:50am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

"racism" has to be redefined when its root word "race" literally has no meaning.

So how should we redefine racism Gandalf? Mocking people's religion and 'racial markers' like clothes?

I haven't redefined it FD, its a widely accepted definition: racism is prejudice against members of different cultures and ethnicities through a homogenising 'othering' process, based on social and culturally rooted negative myths and stereotypes (eg all muslims are inbred/retarded) - which serve to denigrate the "other" and give a sense of superiority to the "in-group".

See this definition makes sense - because we don't have to twist ourselves into knots deciding what is and isn't referring to "race" - when we can't even define what race is to start with. Case in point: insisting that prejudice against muslims can never be racism because muslims are not a race, while at the same time insisting that 'arabia for arabs' (a slogan that has nothing to do with 'race' either) is "blatant racism".

Are the Jews in the Koran a race?

Not sure what your point is, but no. The Quran is actually very anti-racism, mentioning mankind being divided into "nations" and "tribes", but at the same time emphasises the common ancestry of all mankind - very clearly pointing out that no one nation or tribe is superior over any other. Says The Prophet (pbuh):

Quote:

“Surely all of mankind – from the time of Adam until our time – are like the teeth of a comb (all equal to one another) and there is no greatness for an `Arab over a non-`Arab and no greatness for a red-skinned person over a black-skinned person, except due to one’s consciousness of Allah (taqwa).”

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #111 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 2:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 2:01pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 7:50am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

"racism" has to be redefined when its root word "race" literally has no meaning.

So how should we redefine racism Gandalf? Mocking people's religion and 'racial markers' like clothes?

I haven't redefined it FD, its a widely accepted definition: racism is prejudice against members of different cultures and ethnicities through a homogenising 'othering' process, based on social and culturally rooted negative myths and stereotypes (eg all muslims are inbred/retarded) - which serve to denigrate the "other" and give a sense of superiority to the "in-group".

See this definition makes sense - because we don't have to twist ourselves into knots deciding what is and isn't referring to "race" - when we can't even define what race is to start with. Case in point: insisting that prejudice against muslims can never be racism because muslims are not a race, while at the same time insisting that 'arabia for arabs' (a slogan that has nothing to do with 'race' either) is "blatant racism".

Are the Jews in the Koran a race?

Not sure what your point is, but no. The Quran is actually very anti-racism, mentioning mankind being divided into "nations" and "tribes", but at the same time emphasises the common ancestry of all mankind - very clearly pointing out that no one nation or tribe is superior over any other. Says The Prophet (pbuh):

Quote:

“Surely all of mankind – from the time of Adam until our time – are like the teeth of a comb (all equal to one another) and there is no greatness for an `Arab over a non-`Arab and no greatness for a red-skinned person over a black-skinned person, except due to one’s consciousness of Allah (taqwa).”

Well, there you go, G. That's FD's new version of racism.

Wacism.

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freediver

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #112 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 3:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 7:50am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

"racism" has to be redefined when its root word "race" literally has no meaning.

So how should we redefine racism Gandalf? Mocking people's religion and 'racial markers' like clothes?

I haven't redefined it FD, its a widely accepted definition: racism is prejudice against members of different cultures and ethnicities through a homogenising 'othering' process, based on social and culturally rooted negative myths and stereotypes (eg all muslims are inbred/retarded) - which serve to denigrate the "other" and give a sense of superiority to the "in-group".

So why does it have to be redefined?

Are you saying that it is already widely accepted that mocking people for their chosen religion is racist?

If someone hates black people, would you say that is not racist on the grounds that there is no such thing as a black race?

Is The Life of Brian racist?

Quote:

See this definition makes sense - because we don't have to twist ourselves into knots deciding what is and isn't referring to "race" - when we can't even define what race is to start with. Case in point: insisting that prejudice against muslims can never be racism because muslims are not a race, while at the same time insisting that 'arabia for arabs' (a slogan that has nothing to do with 'race' either) is "blatant racism".

You are the only one twisting yourself into knots over it Gandalf. No-one has claimed that "prejudice against muslims can never be racism." However, you have claimed that all Islamophobia is based on racism.

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« Last Edit: Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 3:29pm by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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moses

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #113 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 3:31pm

First the taqiyya:

Quote:

The Quran is actually very anti-racism, mentioning mankind being divided into "nations" and "tribes", but at the same time emphasises the common ancestry of all mankind - very clearly pointing out that no one nation or tribe is superior over any other. Says The Prophet (pbuh):

Then the call to islamic supremacy:

Quote:

“Surely all of mankind – from the time of Adam until our time – are like the teeth of a comb (all equal to one another) and there is no greatness for an `Arab over a non-`Arab and no greatness for a red-skinned person over a black-skinned person, except due to one’s consciousness of Allah (taqwa).”

Uh oh there it is in black and white (can I say that?) everyone is equal except those that believe in allah.

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freediver

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #114 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 3:34pm

moses wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 3:31pm:

First the taqiyya:

Quote:

The Quran is actually very anti-racism, mentioning mankind being divided into "nations" and "tribes", but at the same time emphasises the common ancestry of all mankind - very clearly pointing out that no one nation or tribe is superior over any other. Says The Prophet (pbuh):

Then the call to islamic supremacy:

Quote:

“Surely all of mankind – from the time of Adam until our time – are like the teeth of a comb (all equal to one another) and there is no greatness for an `Arab over a non-`Arab and no greatness for a red-skinned person over a black-skinned person, except due to one’s consciousness of Allah (taqwa).”

Uh oh there it is in black and white (can I say that?) everyone is equal except those that believe in allah.

Seeing as Gandalf likes to tie himself in knots, he thinks that racism should be broadened to include prejudice on the basis of religion. Yet this is exactly what Islam promotes. So by Gandalf's own logic, Islam is racist.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 2:47pm:

It explains why I, a lilly white anglo, will never be a victim of Islamophobia (a form of racism), even though I'm a muslim.

Gandalf, are you a 'victim' of Moses' claim that all Muslim men are retarded?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 12:44pm:

Well apparently you haven't got the hang of it yet - here you seem to accept that the term "anti-semitism" can mean something different to its literal meaning, but the same thing can't happen with the term "racism". Can you explain that?

It is theoretically possible for the term to be broadened beyond it's current meaning, and a tiny minority including yourself is obviously working towards this. But it has not happened and there is no need for it to happen, as demonstrated by your efforts to negotiate the charge down to bigotry.

Quote:

And you haven't answered the question - what is "racism" in your view ? What is allowed and what is not? Because, no offense, you seem rather confused about it all: Islamophobia is not allowed - because muslims are not a 'race' - but 'arabia for arabs' is not just racism - its blatant racism, because... err... arabs aren't a race either, but a linguistic group?

This is an idiotic copout.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs

Arabs are an ethnic group inhabiting the Arab world.

Quote:

I think thats the problem Frank - people "see" race, as in outward superficial physical features like black skin or slanty eyes - but it is in fact a categorisation that is completely arbitrary.

This does not mean it does not exist Gandalf.

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« Last Edit: Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 3:52pm by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Neferti

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #115 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 4:56pm

I am definitely racist, and proud of it. Grin

I don't believe in Caucasians marrying black people, including Indians, African Americans and so forth.

I have less racism with Caucasians marrying "orientals" .... although often the offspring tend to look a little Mongoloid.

IF a child of mine (or a grandchild) "fell in luuuuuv" with one of the above, I would frown, probably as much as I would if I was told they were homosexual.

Same diff.

PS and the Finnish and Dutch are to be avoided as well. Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #116 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 6:38pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 2:01pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 7:50am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

"racism" has to be redefined when its root word "race" literally has no meaning.

So how should we redefine racism Gandalf? Mocking people's religion and 'racial markers' like clothes?

I haven't redefined it FD, its a widely accepted definition: racism is prejudice against members of different cultures and ethnicities through a homogenising 'othering' process, based on social and culturally rooted negative myths and stereotypes (eg all muslims are inbred/retarded) - which serve to denigrate the "other" and give a sense of superiority to the "in-group".

See this definition makes sense - because we don't have to twist ourselves into knots deciding what is and isn't referring to "race" - when we can't even define what race is to start with. Case in point: insisting that prejudice against muslims can never be racism because muslims are not a race, while at the same time insisting that 'arabia for arabs' (a slogan that has nothing to do with 'race' either) is "blatant racism".

Are the Jews in the Koran a race?

Not sure what your point is, but no. The Quran is actually very anti-racism, mentioning mankind being divided into "nations" and "tribes", but at the same time emphasises the common ancestry of all mankind - very clearly pointing out that no one nation or tribe is superior over any other. Says The Prophet (pbuh):

Quote:

“Surely all of mankind – from the time of Adam until our time – are like the teeth of a comb (all equal to one another) and there is no greatness for an `Arab over a non-`Arab and no greatness for a red-skinned person over a black-skinned person, except due to one’s consciousness of Allah (taqwa).”

Can't say the same for Mohammed, the 'best of men", though:

Muhammad says that one day the very trees and stones will help Muslims to kill Jews. He says it in both Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, Islam's two most canonical hadith collections.

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
I heard Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "

But god help you if you draw a cartoon of the meshuggeh.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96444	Re: What is racism? Reply #117 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 8:50pm Neferti wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 4:56pm: I am definitely racist, and proud of it. Good on you, Neferti - very brave. Perhaps FD will take your lead and come out too.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59167 Here Gender:	Re: What is racism? Reply #118 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 8:56pm Karnal wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 8:50pm: Neferti wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 4:56pm: I am definitely racist, and proud of it. Good on you, Neferti - very brave. Perhaps FD will take your lead and come out too. It would be difficult to be a conservative voter and to not be to some extent racist.
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 47695 Gender:	Re: What is racism? Reply #119 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 9:02pm Everyone is racist.
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Poll
Question: Is the statement is my signature racist?
yes 5 (55.6%) no 3 (33.3%) depends 1 (11.1%) don't know 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 9 « Created by: polite_gandalf on: Jan 29^th, 2017 at 9:05am »