Australian Politics Forum - What is racism?

polite_gandalf

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What is racism?
Dec 16^th, 2016 at 11:40am

I reluctantly start a new thread in a desperate bid to get an actual answer from FD.

As you all know, FD's favourite retort to the claim that Islamophobia is racism - is to quip that Islam is not a race. FD's position, therefore, is that racism can only be racism if it refers to actual genetic "races". FD, feel free to stop me here if I've misrepresented you in any way - since I haven't inserted any quotes yet. But I'm hoping common sense kicks in here and you won't dispute that.

It is therefore strange when FD refers to the phrase "arabia for arabs" as a case of "blatant racism". For example:

freediver wrote on Dec 14^th, 2016 at 8:09pm:

but when Aussie makes a clear reference to racial groupings as well as his desire for genocide, you suddenly can't see it?

Apparently, the "clear reference to racial groupings" as well as "his desire for genocide" is all encapsulated in that one phrase "arabia for arabs" - correct FD?

Just one problem - arabs are not a race, they are a linguistic group, defined only by the language they speak - not from any genetic commonalities that might class them as a "race" - as understood by the 19th century notion of the word.

Interestingly, when I pointed out this clear contradiction in FD's position, he flayed away in deflection in typical fashion - but certainly didn't deny that it is indeed true that arabs are not a race (and therefore rendering his whole premise about racism flawed):

freediver wrote on Dec 15^th, 2016 at 1:38pm:

Quote:

arabs are not a race

And inbred people are? Where are you trying to go with this Gandalf? An expose on the mental contortions of a Muslim reformer?

So FD, if you wouldn't mind just clarifying for us all, how the phrase 'arabia for arabs' is blatant racism - given that you don't dispute the fact that arabs are not a race. Thanks.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Yadda

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #1 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 11:47am

I'm a racist,

because i HATE ISLAM, and, because i despise all moslems.

/sarc off

.

QUESTION;
When a person self-describes, and announces;

"I'm a moslem."

.....

What is the most accurate and truthful definition [and description!] of such a person, ....a truthful definition of what a moslem is ?

ANSWER;
A -- moslem -- is a follower of ISLAM. < -------- dictionary definition.

Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1481638676/0#0
Quote:

QUESTION;

Why would a person self-describe as being a moslem,       unless that person understood what ISLAM is [and was willing to associate themselves,    personally,    with ISLAM],       and was willing to associate themselves,    personally,    with what the doctrines and tenets of mainstream ISLAM teach and promote in the world ?

PROPOSITION;

[logically....]
Only a person that understood what ISLAM is [and who is willing to associate themselves,    personally,    with what ISLAM is],          and who was willing to associate themselves,    personally,    with what the doctrines and tenets of mainstream ISLAM teach and promote in the world,    would -- reasonably -- self-describe as being a moslem and would insist that they -- were -- a moslem.

Else, what would be the point of personally identifying with, and in insisting that they were,       a moslem ?

.

Quote:

All moslems are monsters in human form, imo.

How do i justify such an accusation ?

-------->

Where is Tony-missing-in-action-Abbott ???
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1421158879/6#6

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: What is racism? Reply #2 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 11:59am So Yadda, do you agree with FD that the phrase "arabia for arabs" is a case of "blatant racism"?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Karnal

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #3 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:03pm

I believe the term you're looking for is wacism, G - closely followed by the Moslem's victim mentality. It can't possibly be racism. Moslems are not a race.

Decent white people, however, are. This makes the Moslem guilty of racism.

Unless you're an apologist - then you're a racist too.

Soft bigotry of low expectations, innit.

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21885 A cat with a view	Re: What is racism? Reply #4 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:05pm Yadda wrote on Dec 16^th, 2016 at 11:47am: I'm a racist, For unimpeachable confirmation of that fact, just ask Unforgettable/Laugh till you cry. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1407717419/9#9
Back to top	"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31 IP Logged

issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: What is racism? Reply #5 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:06pm There are several experts on Racism on the forum who you could consult, including Sprint who describes all indigenous peoples as "boongs." Meanwhile, he moderates the Spirituality forum. But your appeal for common sense is rich coming from one who had an identity crisis, and went looking for a cure in Islam.
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #6 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:09pm

The term has become meaningless because of its over usage.

Anyway, it's probably best to look at cultural practices and behaviour rather than genetics. (Genetics itself doesn't explain anything outside of the behaviour it determines). What's racist about judging other cultures anyway? Judging is part of the human condition. It only becomes problematic when a race/ethnicity is unfairly targeted. But, you need to go into the whole discussion of what 'unfair' means.

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Yadda

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #7 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 16^th, 2016 at 11:59am:

So Yadda, do you agree with FD that the phrase "arabia for arabs" is a case of "blatant racism"?

I don't know gandalf.

I can only speak for myself, and.....
"Arabia for Arabs." does not sound racist to me.

In fact, i find that phrase very agreeable.

But i would prefer, "Arabia for moslems [i.e all of them!]."

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96446	Re: What is racism? Reply #8 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:11pm Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:09pm: What's racist about judging other cultures anyway? Judging is part of the human condition. It only becomes problematic when a race/ethnicity is unfairly targeted. But, you need to go into the whole discussion of what 'unfair' means. Ah.
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #9 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:13pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:11pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

What's racist about judging other cultures anyway? Judging is part of the human condition. It only becomes problematic when a race/ethnicity is unfairly targeted. But, you need to go into the whole discussion of what 'unfair' means.

Ah.

Too deep for you, buddy? I s'pose it's easier to stick to 'whitey is racist', 'whitey oppresses people'.

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Karnal

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #10 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:15pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:11pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

What's racist about judging other cultures anyway? Judging is part of the human condition. It only becomes problematic when a race/ethnicity is unfairly targeted. But, you need to go into the whole discussion of what 'unfair' means.

Ah.

Too deep for you, buddy? I s'pose it's easier to stick to 'whitey is racist', 'whitey oppresses people'.

No, dear, I was agreeing with you.

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Yadda

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #11 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:18pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

The term has become meaningless because of its over usage.

Anyway, it's probably best to look at cultural practices and behaviour rather than genetics. (Genetics itself doesn't explain anything outside of the behaviour it determines).

What's racist about judging other cultures anyway? Judging is part of the human condition. It only becomes problematic when a race/ethnicity is unfairly targeted.

But, you need to go into the whole discussion of what 'unfair' means.

Well said, Culture Warrior.

.

IMAGE....

'But that is their culture.

.....you have no right to judge them.'

[Q. In a 'cosmopolitan world', should every culture we 'encounter' really be inviolate, and free from all moral scrutiny?]

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21885 A cat with a view	Re: What is racism? Reply #12 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 12:21pm For all of you virtuous people who hate and despise racism......... IMAGE.... Judging People by their Race and Sex is WRONG! [isn't it ?]
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freediver

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #13 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 1:04pm

Gandalf got busted in the other thread deliberately fabricating racist comments and attributing them to moses, because he could not make the charge of racism stick with moses' actual words.

Gandalf also thinks that all Islamophobia is based on racism. His explanation for this is that Islamophobia is an irrational fear whose only rational basis is racism.

Of course, the real explanation is that Gandalf racialises criticism of Islam in order to avoid acknowledging the very real problems that Islam's critics point out to him. Gandalf likes to talk about the Islamic victimhood industry when he has his Islamic reformer hat on, but most of the time he prefers to construct elaborate Islamic victimhood narratives to peddle to his fellow Muslims and apologists. He seeks to reform Islam by telling Muslims and their apologists that they are not responsible for any of their own problems.

It is the soft bigotry of low expectations.

See Gandalf dance:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 16^th, 2016 at 8:37am:

freediver wrote on Dec 15^th, 2016 at 8:13pm:

Quote:

Good idea FD - how would you describe the "truth" pertaining to moses' statement - apart from insisting until you are blue in the face that its not racist? Do you have any other thoughts on it? Bigoted? Condemnable perhaps?

Can we start with whether he actually said it Gandalf? Did Moses refer to Muslims as a sub species, or did you just make that up when you realised I was correct that none of the words he actually used are racial references?

We're past that FD, keep up. We started and finished that when I explained to you very clearly how I think he said it. I even provided the quote - multiple times. You evidently disagreed with my interpretation, but I doubt anyone else on the planet would - including moses himself. How about we agree to disagree that referring to muslims as 100% intellectually disabled as a result of genetics is referring to muslims as a 'sub-species' hmmm?

So anyway, are you going to continue spinelessly apologising for him? When you see moses denigrating muslims in this way, is this really the first thing that you think of - to nitpick people who dare to call it racist? Do you think the most important thing about this hate speech is to attack the people who condemn this speech - because they are not using the "correct" label of bigotry?

Do you even recognize it as bigotry that should be condemned? I'm frankly having doubts.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: What is racism? Reply #14 - Dec 16^th, 2016 at 1:55pm ooh look FD evading the question. Shocking.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Poll
Question: Is the statement is my signature racist?
yes 5 (55.6%) no 3 (33.3%) depends 1 (11.1%) don't know 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 9 « Created by: polite_gandalf on: Jan 29^th, 2017 at 9:05am »