Australian Politics Forum - What is racism?

Frank

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #285 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:41pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:11pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 7:33pm:

My belief- if you aren't a 100% jet black abbo living on the land and speaking the tongue then you aren't a abbo. If you are a one quarter percent wannabee living in a house and getting your food from Woolworths you are a 1st world consuming douche like the rest of us. Suck it up and move on.

Such a narrow-minded viewpoint there, Rhino. Considering the degree of intermarriage between Whites and Indigenous Australians... Roll Eyes

How much Indigenous blood makes you Indigenous an when do you become white?
Three white grandparents? Two? One? When do you switch from indigenous to white?

When do indigenous Aboriginals stop regarding you as one of them? How blond and blue eyed can you be to be still indigenous? One great-great-great grandmother?

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Karnal

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #286 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 9:15pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:12pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:03pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 7:47pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 7:44pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 7:33pm:

My belief- if you aren't a 100% jet black abbo living on the land and speaking the tongue then you aren't a abbo.

Abbos don't believe that, dear.

Mind you, some believe that if you aren't a long-term unemployed public Housing tenant who lives with his mum and does nothing but complain, you aren't a Homo.

See , I believe if you aren't a paki doormat copping a slap across the face for not taking it in the ass you aren't a Karnal.

The difference between you and I, Homo, is that you do the taking. You have to.

You're not firm enough to give it, dear.

You are crumbling dear. You always take this oz politics sense of elevation. Now you are acting like a tit for tat punk. Karnal is getting angry and her barely adequate psychic defences are crumbling!!! Grin

Maybe you could provide us with half an unreferenced reference, dear. You know, mix things up a bit.

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freediver

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #287 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 10:09pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 4:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 11:57am:

[quote]So if the statement that they were 'born stupid' is made in reference to a specific characteristic of "being muslim" (ie - all muslims are inbred, and therefore all stupid), then its racist.

What if the statement that they were 'born intelligent and industrious' is made in reference to a specific characteristic of "being a doctor" (ie - all doctors are born that way, therefor they are intelligent and industrious). Is that racist?

As K says, thats just dumb.

That said, it is true that racism can also be 'positive' - eg 'Asians are better than us at maths'

I am not asking you if it is dumb. I agree with you entirely that this is retarded. I am asking you if it is racist. Is it racist to link being 'born intelligent and industrious' to the specific characteristic of "being a doctor"?

Quote:

Aussie was not being racist because he was not making any claims about the inherent superiority or inferiority of any one cultural group over another.

So to be racist you have to comment on superiority, rather than, say, ownership? It is not racist to say that something belongs to a particular race?

Quote:

He was simply making a point about the turmoil and suffering that has been caused by western colonialism in the Arab homeland - and how it would have been best if that colonialism never happened.

Are you saying this is the entirety of what he meant by "Arabia for Arabs"? Why is it that you know so much more about what Aussie meant than Aussie himself?

Quote:

Same with your Aboriginal example - in that case the Aborginal is complaining about the destruction that white colonialism has reaped - and that he wants it to stop. Again, he is not asserting any superiority of his 'race' over whites, or vise-versa. He simply wants the suffering of his people to end.

So is it racist or not to insist that white people be kicked out of Australia?

Quote:

As far as I'm concerned, an "English-person" is someone who permanently resides in England. I don't consider it a label of culture. I understand you vehemently disagree with this. Thats ok, I've debated this point ad-infinitum with your type, and I'd be surprised if you haven't debated this point ad-infinitum with my type.

Have you debated with Aussie what he is referring to when he says "Arabia for Arabs"? Or is this something you know without asking?

Quote:

So don't think you are telling me something I haven't already heard 100 times before. Suffice to say I understand your point of view, and I hope you understand mine and we'll have to agree to disagree.

Did you agree to disagree with Aussie over what he really meant?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #288 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 11:06pm

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 10:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 4:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 11:57am:

[quote]So if the statement that they were 'born stupid' is made in reference to a specific characteristic of "being muslim" (ie - all muslims are inbred, and therefore all stupid), then its racist.

What if the statement that they were 'born intelligent and industrious' is made in reference to a specific characteristic of "being a doctor" (ie - all doctors are born that way, therefor they are intelligent and industrious). Is that racist?

As K says, thats just dumb.

That said, it is true that racism can also be 'positive' - eg 'Asians are better than us at maths'

I am not asking you if it is dumb. I agree with you entirely that this is retarded. I am asking you if it is racist. Is it racist to link being 'born intelligent and industrious' to the specific characteristic of "being a doctor"?

Of course it's retarded. G already answered this question specifically, as we all did.

Would you like to be told something else?

G knows what Aussie meant, FD, because G read what Aussie said. Crazy, I know. G could have chased Aussie around for 20 pages, misquoted him to get a reaction and started up a couple of threads to smear him, but instead, G listened to what Aussie had to say.

Kunning, no?

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« Last Edit: Jan 7^th, 2017 at 11:16pm by Karnal »

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Brian Ross

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #289 - Jan 8^th, 2017 at 12:24am

Frank wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:11pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 7:33pm:

My belief- if you aren't a 100% jet black abbo living on the land and speaking the tongue then you aren't a abbo. If you are a one quarter percent wannabee living in a house and getting your food from Woolworths you are a 1st world consuming douche like the rest of us. Suck it up and move on.

Such a narrow-minded viewpoint there, Rhino. Considering the degree of intermarriage between Whites and Indigenous Australians... Roll Eyes

How much Indigenous blood makes you Indigenous an when do you become white?
Three white grandparents? Two? One? When do you switch from indigenous to white?

When do indigenous Aboriginals stop regarding you as one of them? How blond and blue eyed can you be to be still indigenous? One great-great-great grandmother?

I take it you'd much rather have arbitrary rules, based on your myth of "race", to determine if a person is Indigenous or not, Frank?

Rather like how Sandra Laing was judged to be "coloured" on the basis of her skin colour and hair type by the RSA Authorities? Gee, you're such a nice person, aren't you, Frank? Do you think that Jewish people should wear a nice yellow star on their clothes so you can tell their religion? Mmmmm? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #290 - Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:12am

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 8^th, 2017 at 12:24am:

Frank wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 8:11pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 7:33pm:

My belief- if you aren't a 100% jet black abbo living on the land and speaking the tongue then you aren't a abbo. If you are a one quarter percent wannabee living in a house and getting your food from Woolworths you are a 1st world consuming douche like the rest of us. Suck it up and move on.

Such a narrow-minded viewpoint there, Rhino. Considering the degree of intermarriage between Whites and Indigenous Australians... Roll Eyes

How much Indigenous blood makes you Indigenous an when do you become white?
Three white grandparents? Two? One? When do you switch from indigenous to white?

When do indigenous Aboriginals stop regarding you as one of them? How blond and blue eyed can you be to be still indigenous? One great-great-great grandmother?

I take it you'd much rather have arbitrary rules, based on your myth of "race", to determine if a person is Indigenous or not, Frank?

Rather like how Sandra Laing was judged to be "coloured" on the basis of her skin colour and hair type by the RSA Authorities? Gee, you're such a nice person, aren't you, Frank? Do you think that Jewish people should wear a nice yellow star on their clothes so you can tell their religion? Mmmmm? Roll Eyes

Our government already has those arbitrary rules to determine who is aboriginal. I believe that 1/16 or 1/32 aboriginal blood is sufficient to get extra money.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #291 - Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:13am

FD is really rather simple: its racist if its asserting the supremacy of one 'race' over another. If claims of racial supremacy can be inferred from political statements related to anti-colonial sentiments (or whatever else) - then knock yourself out - call it racist. All I'm saying is that it aint necessarily so, and racism can only be understood from the context. And insisting 'arabia for arabs' - in a clearly stated argument related solely to an anti-colonial/western meddling sentiment - is racist, is quite unreasonable. Especially so in view of your 'nothing to see here' routine in response to someone making the most crude broad-stroke statement imaginable about the genetic inferiority of the entire male muslim population.

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 10:09pm:

Are you saying this is the entirety of what he meant by "Arabia for Arabs"? Why is it that you know so much more about what Aussie meant than Aussie himself?

Funny as this may sound, I actually went and read what Aussie said. And he specifically said that he was making a point about western meddling in Arab lands (feel free to check it yourself). You on the other hand persistently verballed him until you got the "answer" you were looking for. As only FD can.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49371 At my desk.	Re: What is racism? Reply #292 - Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:23am Which of the following statements are racist Gandalf? Muslims are born stupid. Doctors are born intelligent and industrious. Arabia is for Arabs, in the context of withdrawing support for Israel. White people should be kicked out of Australia because of the history of colonialism.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #293 - Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:26am

Frank wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 7:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 6:59pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 6:29pm:

I do not understand you point of view and I very much doubt that you do. You lost all your arguments along these lines, I am sure.

For example, if you reside in England but do not speak English but only some other language then you are not English. Or if you speak English but with an Australian or American accent - Clive James, say, or Kevin Spacey - you are not English either.

I've had this debate with someone before. I pointed out the absurdly arbitrary (and dare I say - racist) nature of this definition. For example, a black man who immigrates to England from the West Indies can never be 'English' because of where he was born - even if he takes up citizenship and adopts the English culture with gusto. Fair enough - its a chauvinist and unreasonable argument IMO, but it at least has some logic and I can understand it. But then he went on to say that not even his children, or his grandchildren - pretty much going on forever and ever - could ever be 'English' either. Why? Because they could never claim the heritage of an 'Englishman'. Whatever that means. Same deal with those with Pakistani or Indian or Arab etc heritage. So it then becomes nothing about self identity or the culture you adopt (as you seem to claim sometimes) - but purely about what 'race' you are born into. It is a blatantly racist approach specifically designed to keep identities like 'Englishman' or "Dutchman' or "Frenchman" an exclusive club, defined not by what culture you adopt, nor even where you were born - but whose genes you carry. It is a tool that literally has no other purpose than to maintain a stigma on certain minorities - to send the message loud and clear that 'you are not one of us' and therefore 'you are inferior to us'.

You hit he nail on the head despite yourself, Gandalf. Aboriginality is defined as being accepted by the Aboriginal community as being an Aboriginal, not by any other measure.

The same idea holds for every other cultural and ethic group, including the ones who, unlike aborigines, have passports corresponding to their identity.

You are English when the English accept you as English. You are Australian when Australians accept you as one of them.

This is what you are arguing against but also affirm - this is why you lose every argument. You are mouthing PC crap and try to back it up with common sense - only you do not realise because nobody, not even you, actually gets the PC crap. You mouth it because you want to be progressive but because it is daft, you don't - can't - think along its tenets.

What hypocritical drivel.

Fact: women in hijabs and 'bearded numpties' in baggy 'pygamas', among others - ie the very people you constantly rail against as 'not one of us' - are overwhelmingly accepted in western communities. These western societies have repeatedly and consistently supported these people's right to express their own cultural identity, and they overwhelmingly consider this a good thing and not the least bit inconsistent with successful integration into western society.

Sorry Frank but you checkmate yourself with your own argument: these people are accepted into society, yet you still huff and puff at them for 'not being accepted'. So what do you think this means? It means that *YOU* are the one out of step in society, not the hijabis or bearded numpties. Of course you can jeer and sneer at these people for not fitting into *YOUR* idea of 'successful' integration - but don't pretend the rest of your beloved white society is with you on this. They are not. You are Robinson Crusoe on this one I'm afraid.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #294 - Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:27am

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:23am:

Which of the following statements are racist Gandalf?

Muslims are born stupid.

Doctors are born intelligent and industrious.

Arabia is for Arabs, in the context of withdrawing support for Israel.

White people should be kicked out of Australia because of the history of colonialism.

The first one.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49371 At my desk.	Re: What is racism? Reply #295 - Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:29am Only the first one? What is the fundamental difference between the first and second?
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Mr Hammer

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #296 - Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:29am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:27am:

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:23am:

Which of the following statements are racist Gandalf?

Muslims are born stupid.

Doctors are born intelligent and industrious.

Arabia is for Arabs, in the context of withdrawing support for Israel.

White people should be kicked out of Australia because of the history of colonialism.

The first one.

What about- Europe for Europeans??

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polite_gandalf

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #297 - Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:35am

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:29am:

Only the first one?

What is the fundamental difference between the first and second?

I'm pretty sure I said before that racism necessarily involves the typecasting of particular ethnic or cultural groups. Doctors are neither, they are a profession.

You can call the second 'doctorism' or 'professionism' or some other if you like.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #298 - Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:38am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:35am:

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:29am:

Only the first one?

What is the fundamental difference between the first and second?

I'm pretty sure I said before that racism necessarily involves the typecasting of particular ethnic or cultural groups. Doctors are neither, they are a profession.

You can call the second 'doctorism' or 'professionism' or some other if you like.

What about "Jews get out of arab lands"? What about "Muslims get out of Australia"?

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WN Full Member Offline The 14 words Posts: 153 Gender:	Re: What is racism? Reply #299 - Jan 8^th, 2017 at 7:41am What about abos get out of the white mans Australia?
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Poll
Question: Is the statement is my signature racist?
yes 5 (55.6%) no 3 (33.3%) depends 1 (11.1%) don't know 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 9 « Created by: polite_gandalf on: Jan 29^th, 2017 at 9:05am »