Australian Politics Forum - What is racism?

polite_gandalf

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #540 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 7:37am

two random replies to that completely incoherent post:

freediver wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 7:40pm:

We are not taling about what is logical, but what is racist. Are you now attempting to introduce both logic and truth to your definition of racism?

I am certainly talking about 'logical' in the context of what isn't racist. Please read that quote again. You literally couldn't have got it more backwards.

freediver wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 7:40pm:

So superiority is not the deciding factor any more?

Of course it is. "kick out non-whites" is a statement of racial superiority - and therefore racist. Regardless of what BS justification is claimed for it.

Also please do me the courtesy of not asking me stuff I have given clear answers to already. If you wanted to know the difference between "kick out non-whites" and "kick out those of African heritage" - you could have looked at reply# 527.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #541 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 7:56am

Quote:

Of course it is. "kick out non-whites" is a statement of racial superiority - and therefore racist. Regardless of what BS justification is claimed for it.

But kick out people who do not have local heritage is not racist? Or might not be? What is the difference? Why does one automatically invoke superiority, regardless of whether it actually invokes superiority?

Quote:

Also please do me the courtesy of not asking me stuff I have given clear answers to already. If you wanted to know the difference between "kick out non-whites" and "kick out those of African heritage" - you could have looked at reply# 527.

It waffles on about the method of identifying the group. There is nothing there that invokes superiority. The closest you came to an explanation is insisting that anyone who says "white" does not have the motive that they say they have. In other words, you reject reality and replace it with your own, in order to bend it to your definition of racism.

Saying you reject what people say as a reflection of what they think and project your own views on to them is not an explanation of why you do that. Would you mind if people did that for Muslims? After all, we know what Muslims really think - it's in the Koran and Hadiths. The rest is just taqiyya right?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96381	Re: What is racism? Reply #542 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 9:00am You didn't answer the questions, FD. Let's try again. When do you want to kick out all those with "non-local" heritage? Remember, we have important fishing and carbon tax policies to get back to discussing.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #543 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 9:56am

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2017 at 7:56am:

The closest you came to an explanation is insisting that anyone who says "white" does not have the motive that they say they have. In other words, you reject reality and replace it with your own

You were the one rejecting reality by claiming 'non whites' and 'anyone who migrated to England after 1850' is "pretty much the same thing.

Thats the sort of crap a racist would say. The fact that not all or even most people satisfying this 'heritage criteria' are non-whites (Eastern Europeans, French, German, Scots, Irish) speaks volumes about a racist mindset to assume that they are. There is simply no logical reason to say a 'non-white' is somehow less legitimate in terms of English ancestral heritage than say a grandchild of Polish immigrants who arrived in the early 19th century. It is illogical and a statement of racial superiority.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #544 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 10:12am

Quote:

You were the one rejecting reality by claiming 'non whites' and 'anyone who migrated to England after 1850' is "pretty much the same thing.

In terms of whether it is racist, yes. I have explained this to you several times now Gandalf. So what is the difference?

Quote:

Thats the sort of crap a racist would say.

Yes. But you are the one saying it is not racist.

Quote:

The fact that not all or even most people satisfying this 'heritage criteria' are non-whites (Eastern Europeans, French, German, Scots, Irish) speaks volumes about a racist mindset to assume that they are.

It is a different group of people sure, and I did not claim otherwise, as you suggest, but why is drawing a different circle around people not racist? Why is your circle not racist but mine is?

Quote:

There is simply no logical reason to say a 'non-white' is somehow less legitimate in terms of English ancestral heritage than say a grandchild of Polish immigrants who arrived in the early 19th century. It is illogical and a statement of racial superiority.

Is legitimacy now part of yur definition of racism? You are clutching at straws Gandalf. You are blurting out every possible explanation you can think of, except for an explanation for why one is racist and the other not. So how many times do you have to ask a Muslim to get a straight answer?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #545 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 10:27am

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2017 at 10:12am:

Quote:

You were the one rejecting reality by claiming 'non whites' and 'anyone who migrated to England after 1850' is "pretty much the same thing.

In terms of whether it is racist, yes. I have explained this to you several times now Gandalf. So what is the difference?

Quote:

Thats the sort of crap a racist would say.

Yes. But you are the one saying it is not racist.

Quote:

The fact that not all or even most people satisfying this 'heritage criteria' are non-whites (Eastern Europeans, French, German, Scots, Irish) speaks volumes about a racist mindset to assume that they are.

It is a different group of people sure, and I did not claim otherwise, as you suggest, but why is drawing a different circle around people not racist? Why is your circle not racist but mine is?

Quote:

There is simply no logical reason to say a 'non-white' is somehow less legitimate in terms of English ancestral heritage than say a grandchild of Polish immigrants who arrived in the early 19th century. It is illogical and a statement of racial superiority.

Is legitimacy now part of yur definition of racism? You are clutching at straws Gandalf. You are blurting out every possible explanation you can think of, except for an explanation for why one is racist and the other not. So how many times do you have to ask a Muslim to get a straight answer?

Can't get an answer out of him, eh?

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Frank

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #546 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 1:25pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 11:09pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 10:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 9:58pm:

We're all friends here, dear boy. Liberty, equality, fraternity. We are one.

Isn't it.

No. I am not your friend.

Islam is NOT the horizon of what is permitted, of what is thinkable, what is acceptable.

Islam is a horrible creed and this must not be allowed to go unremarked at any time. Every time Islam is mentioned its horrors and unacceptable aspects must also be mentioned.

Islam is unacceptable as a creed. Islam is not a conjunction against what can be said. It is open to ridicule and denigration just like any other ideology or religion.

Do you submit to this creed, 'friend'?

But of course. Friends, not friends, love thy neighbour, love thine enemy as thyself.

We do not submit to creeds, old chap. We submit to oneness.

We may struggle with this in life, but we are all one in death, no?

You are indeed my friend.

How do we force the Muslims to submit to oneness?? How do we force them to ditch the divisive Koranic classification of humanity into Muslims and infidels?
How do we convert Muslims to the Christian Jewish truth of love thy neighbour, rather than their own creed of hate the infidel and the Jew??

How can we do that?

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Frank

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #547 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 1:34pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 8:22am:

Frank wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 5:40pm:

Everyone has seen through that, has had enough of it. If the Muslims can claim collective victim status then they can also be collectively denounced, called imbeciles and arsecovering opportunists. Balance.

How very convenient. You now have a moral justification for your racism. For it is racism, even FD has agreed that you are racist against muslims.

In any case, most muslims don't claim "collective victim status" with ISIS - they condemn them, uncategorically. Thats one of the reasons you mock us - remember?

You all claim to be the victims of the West, the Jews, the wrong kind of Muslims.

Muslims do not take responsibility for Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Gaza, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Indonesia; you do not take responsibility for your reputations in Western countries.

But all the troubles in those Muslim countries and your reputation in the West is entirely your doing.
As for ISIS, thy acts impeccably Koranically. They recite the Koran accurately, they follow Islamic precedent scrupulously.

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Karnal

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #548 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 5:04pm

Frank wrote on Jan 21^st, 2017 at 1:25pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 11:09pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 10:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 9:58pm:

We're all friends here, dear boy. Liberty, equality, fraternity. We are one.

Isn't it.

No. I am not your friend.

Islam is NOT the horizon of what is permitted, of what is thinkable, what is acceptable.

Islam is a horrible creed and this must not be allowed to go unremarked at any time. Every time Islam is mentioned its horrors and unacceptable aspects must also be mentioned.

Islam is unacceptable as a creed. Islam is not a conjunction against what can be said. It is open to ridicule and denigration just like any other ideology or religion.

Do you submit to this creed, 'friend'?

But of course. Friends, not friends, love thy neighbour, love thine enemy as thyself.

We do not submit to creeds, old chap. We submit to oneness.

We may struggle with this in life, but we are all one in death, no?

You are indeed my friend.

How do we force the Muslims to submit to oneness?? How do we force them to ditch the divisive Koranic classification of humanity into Muslims and infidels?
How do we convert Muslims to the Christian Jewish truth of love thy neighbour, rather than their own creed of hate the infidel and the Jew??

How can we do that?

We'll ask G, shall we?

G, how does one submit to oneness? How does one ditch divisive categories? How does one learn to love thy neighbour?

We'd ask FD, but he's not taking questions anymore.

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« Last Edit: Jan 21^st, 2017 at 5:24pm by Karnal »

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polite_gandalf

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #549 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 5:56pm

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2017 at 10:12am:

Yes. But you are the one saying it is not racist.

No, I said it was racist. Dear oh dear FD...

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2017 at 10:12am:

It is a different group of people sure, and I did not claim otherwise, as you suggest

You suggested that anyone who migrated to England after 1850 are all non-white. Which is rubbish, and what a racist would say. If nothing else I hope you now understand that its rubbish.

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2017 at 10:12am:

Is legitimacy now part of yur definition of racism?

What a racist considers a 'legitimate' person under their twisted criteria is most certainly central to the definition of racism.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96381	Re: What is racism? Reply #550 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 5:58pm Are you not taking questions too, G? How many times does one have to ask a Muslim?
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96381	Re: What is racism? Reply #551 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 5:59pm polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 21^st, 2017 at 5:56pm: You suggested that anyone who migrated to England after 1850 are all non-white. Which is rubbish, and what a racist would say. Ah. I think you're catching on.
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freediver

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #552 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 6:33pm

Gandalf, why is it racist to group people by skin colour but not by geographic ancestry? Why can you not give a straight answer on this distinction you are making?

Quote:

You suggested that anyone who migrated to England after 1850 are all non-white.

No I didn't, as I have explained half a dozen times already. Is this another example of you rejecting what people actually say to bend it to your definition of racism?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Frank

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #553 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 7:05pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 21^st, 2017 at 5:04pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 21^st, 2017 at 1:25pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 11:09pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 10:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 9:58pm:

We're all friends here, dear boy. Liberty, equality, fraternity. We are one.

Isn't it.

No. I am not your friend.

Islam is NOT the horizon of what is permitted, of what is thinkable, what is acceptable.

Islam is a horrible creed and this must not be allowed to go unremarked at any time. Every time Islam is mentioned its horrors and unacceptable aspects must also be mentioned.

Islam is unacceptable as a creed. Islam is not a conjunction against what can be said. It is open to ridicule and denigration just like any other ideology or religion.

Do you submit to this creed, 'friend'?

But of course. Friends, not friends, love thy neighbour, love thine enemy as thyself.

We do not submit to creeds, old chap. We submit to oneness.

We may struggle with this in life, but we are all one in death, no?

You are indeed my friend.

How do we force the Muslims to submit to oneness?? How do we force them to ditch the divisive Koranic classification of humanity into Muslims and infidels?
How do we convert Muslims to the Christian Jewish truth of love thy neighbour, rather than their own creed of hate the infidel and the Jew??

How can we do that?

We'll ask G, shall we?

G, how does one submit to oneness? How does one ditch divisive categories? How does one learn to love thy neighbour?

We'd ask FD, but he's not taking questions anymore.

I am asking you. You suggested we should all embrace oneness. Muslims embrace division. What to do?

How would YOU achieve your ideals in the face of 1400 years of Muslim resistance and outright hostility? Don't ask Gandalf, he is a Muslims.
he want you to submit to the division of humanity into Muslims and infidels. He cannot do otherwise, being a Koranic Muslim.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #554 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 7:06pm

freediver wrote on Jan 21^st, 2017 at 6:33pm:

Gandalf, why is it racist to group people by skin colour but not by geographic ancestry?

I didn't say that. I said both can be racist, and probably mostly are. Please keep up.

But FD, surely even you can understand the difference between identifying 'Africans' as a distinct cultural/ancestral group (albeit crudely) who 'belong' in a particular geographical location - and simply broad-stroking an entire population that is distinguished by nothing other than the colour of their skin (as distinct from any actual cultural/ancestral group) and declaring the entire lot of them should be kicked out?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Poll
Question: Is the statement is my signature racist?
yes 5 (55.6%) no 3 (33.3%) depends 1 (11.1%) don't know 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 9 « Created by: polite_gandalf on: Jan 29^th, 2017 at 9:05am »