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Poll Poll
Question: Is the statement is my signature racist?

yes    
  5 (55.6%)
no    
  3 (33.3%)
depends    
  1 (11.1%)
don't know    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 9
« Created by: polite_gandalf on: Jan 29th, 2017 at 9:05am »

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What is racism? (Read 93010 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #660 - Jan 31st, 2017 at 3:48pm  
Karnal wrote on Jan 31st, 2017 at 2:35pm:
Why are you looking for a plausible interpretation of what Moses said?


Especially when it directly contradicts what moses said (ie it could be the result of a single generation of inbreeding - even though moses specifically mentioned low intelligence in the context of 1400 years of inbreeding).

What is FD's game here? Its one thing to argue the toss over definitions, its quite another to try and offer "plausible" interpretations to what is to any sane person complete nonsense - and undiluted bigotry. How the firetruck can claiming 100% of the entire male muslim population has inbred themselves into low intelligent psychopathic killers have a "plausible, non-racist interpretation"? Its like FD is trying to reach new levels of farce.
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Karnal
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #661 - Jan 31st, 2017 at 4:55pm  
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 31st, 2017 at 3:48pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 31st, 2017 at 2:35pm:
Why are you looking for a plausible interpretation of what Moses said?


Especially when it directly contradicts what moses said (ie it could be the result of a single generation of inbreeding - even though moses specifically mentioned low intelligence in the context of 1400 years of inbreeding).

What is FD's game here? Its one thing to argue the toss over definitions, its quite another to try and offer "plausible" interpretations to what is to any sane person complete nonsense - and undiluted bigotry. How the firetruck can claiming 100% of the entire male muslim population has inbred themselves into low intelligent psychopathic killers have a "plausible, non-racist interpretation"? Its like FD is trying to reach new levels of farce.


Farce, yes. But what's the motive for defending such a position?

Given that FD refuses to say, we can only assume his motive is a cut and dried case of, er, sexism.

No, hang on - subspeciesism. Retardationism. Biological determinism.

It can't possibly be racism. Retards who squat down to piss and play with their dicks afterwards are not a race. Innit.

Now you answer FD's question - is it racist to point out that doctors are intelligent?

FD's about to answer mine.


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Re: What is racism?
Reply #662 - Jan 31st, 2017 at 8:08pm  
Muslim cultural practices, values and worldviews are unwelcome.  Islam is a way of life and a creed that is detrimental to Western societies.

Muslims, being mostly tribal people, do encourage consanguine relation in order to maintain tribal bonds. They do this even when they move to societies in the West where tribalism is frowned upon and consanguinity is strongly discouraged is not prohibited. They put tribal allegiances above prevailing customs and norms.

A very large number of Islamic doctrines are seen by Westerners as idiotic, insane, cruel or primitive. Many lapsed Muslims also see these doctrines in the same way. They live in fear of their lives in they are till in Muslim countries, sometimes even when they are in the 'free' but submissive  West.

The vast majority of Muslims in the West are from Arab and other Third World Muslim ethnicities.

So it is not hard to look at Arab third worlders adhering to Islam and think, 'hey, these guys are resisting progress (they are reactionaries against every aspect of Western ideas of progress). For them to choose submission to an atavistic and resentful Islam over Enlightenment and personal and communal freedom is a signal of abnormality.


Gist: if you are a fervent Muslim under 60 in the West, you are living with cognitive dissonance. Are you a product of inbreeding? If yes, it is a mitigating circumstance. Otherwise you are either bad, mad, low IQ or antisocial.
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #663 - Jan 31st, 2017 at 9:28pm  
Quote:
I don't think there would be many people who would disagree on my definition of racism - which was "defined" long before I was around.


Everyone disagrees, including yourself. You have changed your mind many times in this thread. Now your definition has disappeared into thin air.

How many people do you think agree with this argument Gandalf?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 4th, 2017 at 4:02pm:
If you already acknowledge that racism can be based on "fake" races, why can't it be based on other "fake" and abritrary categorisations - that we just label 'defining race' for good measure?


So far we have examples like Muslims and doctors. What other "fake" races that have nothing to do with race can we include, and on what basis? The closest you have come to an explanation is that it must be a marker for a race, and the closest you have come to explaining what such a marker is is that it is a marker. Then you just tried desperately to change the subject to what Moses really meant.
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #664 - Jan 31st, 2017 at 9:34pm  
Quote:
no, but it is a "subgroup of low intelligence beings" - which I know that subtle difference is so important to you, and how it makes all the difference between being racist and non-racist.


Stupid is not a race. Inbred is not a race. Muslim is not a race. Keep clutching at straws Gandalf.

Quote:
So just to be clear - 100% of muslims being of low intelligence due to inbreeding - could plausibly be explained by a single generation of inbreeding?


I am not saying Moses' argument is plausible, just that it is not racist. You dreamt up the most implausible fantasy to rationalise what he said, because for some reason you are loathe to simply ask him.

Quote:
This is despite the fact that moses specifically said muslim's low intelligence was a result of 1400 years of inbreeding - and *NOT* a single generation.


If Muslims have been inbreeding for 1400 years, that would actually prevent them creating anything like a race. Their racial profile would be identical to whatever it was when their ancestors first converted to Islam. You would just add inbred on top of that. And in case you have forgotten, inbred is not a race.

Why do you keep telling me what Moses "specifically" said instead of quoting what he "actually" said? You cannot bring yourself to ask him what he meant, but will spend pages telling everyone that what he really meant was different to what he said. And when you do dig up a quote, you cannot even provide the entire sentence.

Quote:
Especially when it directly contradicts what moses said (ie it could be the result of a single generation of inbreeding - even though moses specifically mentioned low intelligence in the context of 1400 years of inbreeding).


Would that be the context you stripped from your quote?

Quote:
What is FD's game here? Its one thing to argue the toss over definitions, its quite another to try and offer "plausible" interpretations to what is to any sane person complete nonsense - and undiluted bigotry.


If it makes no sense to you, why are you so certain you have made sense of it and that you know what he really meant? Why avoid simply asking Moses what he meant? Why avoid using Moses' own words to make the case for what he is saying?
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #665 - Jan 31st, 2017 at 11:08pm  
FD, you declined to answer the questions.

1. Why?

2. What have you got to hide?

3. Are you a snivelling, cowering, spineless apologist?

4. Cat got your tongue?

Sorry, scrap 4. I already asked you that.
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #666 - Jan 31st, 2017 at 11:10pm  
freediver wrote on Jan 31st, 2017 at 9:34pm:
Quote:
no, but it is a "subgroup of low intelligence beings" - which I know that subtle difference is so important to you, and how it makes all the difference between being racist and non-racist.


Stupid is not a race. Inbred is not a race. Muslim is not a race. Keep clutching at straws Gandalf.

Quote:
So just to be clear - 100% of muslims being of low intelligence due to inbreeding - could plausibly be explained by a single generation of inbreeding?


I am not saying Moses' argument is plausible, just that it is not racist. You dreamt up the most implausible fantasy to rationalise what he said, because for some reason you are loathe to simply ask him.

Quote:
This is despite the fact that moses specifically said muslim's low intelligence was a result of 1400 years of inbreeding - and *NOT* a single generation.


If Muslims have been inbreeding for 1400 years, that would actually prevent them creating anything like a race. Their racial profile would be identical to whatever it was when their ancestors first converted to Islam. You would just add inbred on top of that. And in case you have forgotten, inbred is not a race.

Why do you keep telling me what Moses "specifically" said instead of quoting what he "actually" said? You cannot bring yourself to ask him what he meant, but will spend pages telling everyone that what he really meant was different to what he said. And when you do dig up a quote, you cannot even provide the entire sentence.

Quote:
Especially when it directly contradicts what moses said (ie it could be the result of a single generation of inbreeding - even though moses specifically mentioned low intelligence in the context of 1400 years of inbreeding).


Would that be the context you stripped from your quote?

Quote:
What is FD's game here? Its one thing to argue the toss over definitions, its quite another to try and offer "plausible" interpretations to what is to any sane person complete nonsense - and undiluted bigotry.


If it makes no sense to you, why are you so certain you have made sense of it and that you know what he really meant? Why avoid simply asking Moses what he meant? Why avoid using Moses' own words to make the case for what he is saying?


We don't need Moses' words, FD.

We have yours.
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #667 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 9:48am  
freediver wrote on Jan 31st, 2017 at 9:34pm:
I am not saying Moses' argument is plausible, just that it is not racist.


So why are you bringing up 'plausible' explanations that directly contradict what he actually said?

The truth is FD you've been frantically scrambling for plausibility in moses' bigoted statement ever since I brought it up. You've flatly refused to say anything against it, hanging on to this red-herring that its not racist, therefore its ok. Or more specifically - its bigotry against muslims that I can endlessly argue the toss over why its not technically racist (and also implicity agree with), therefore its ok.

And I make no apologies for accusing you of sending the message that what moses said is ok: not just for refusing to condemn it, but at every step bringing in ridiculous arguments that can only be intended to give credibility to, and therefore apologise for moses' outrageous bigotry:

- mentioning only (100% of) muslim males as low intelligence due to inbreeding is 'plausible' because males are scientifically more susceptible to inbreeding-related defects
- bringing in the science of inbreeding to hint at moses' bigotry having a credible basis (even before you attempted to use it against my arguments)
- concluding that in fact both science and me differed with moses only in extent
- clutching at any "plausible" explanation for moses' bigotry that you can find - even when it directly contradicts what moses actually said (and then rant all day about me not wanting to confirm what he actually meant)
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #668 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 10:06am  
freediver wrote on Jan 31st, 2017 at 9:34pm:
Why do you keep telling me what Moses "specifically" said instead of quoting what he "actually" said?


I've told you exactly what he "actually" said - I've requoted what he said to the letter about a dozen times for you. Mostly to demonstrate to you how your spineless apologies for it are fallacious, or just plain wrong. Like when you point out that low intelligence can be acquired in a single generation of inbreeding could be a "plausible" explanation of what moses said - when what he "actually" said, directly contradicts this (ie - that low intelligence in muslims in the result of 1400 years of inbreeding, not a single generation).

What he "actually" said is now permanently pinned to my signature - put there because of your continued "me no speaka da English" routine whenever confronted with the reality of what moses said. Now you have no excuse - you can remind yourself every time I post how moses "exactly" and "specifically" described the entire muslim population as a "low intelligent" "subgroup" of human "beings". And then you can reflect upon your heroic efforts to apologise and rationalize this most blatant of bigotry by associating it with "actual science" and obfuscating all day long with "plausible, non-racist interpretations" - and absolutely anything else that helps you avoid actually saying anything at all about how absurd and bigoted it actually is.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #669 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 11:25am  
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 3rd, 2017 at 9:48am:
freediver wrote on Jan 31st, 2017 at 9:34pm:
I am not saying Moses' argument is plausible, just that it is not racist.


So why are you bringing up 'plausible' explanations that directly contradict what he actually said?

The truth is FD you've been frantically scrambling for plausibility in moses' bigoted statement ever since I brought it up. You've flatly refused to say anything against it, hanging on to this red-herring that its not racist, therefore its ok. Or more specifically - its bigotry against muslims that I can endlessly argue the toss over why its not technically racist (and also implicity agree with), therefore its ok.

And I make no apologies for accusing you of sending the message that what moses said is ok: not just for refusing to condemn it, but at every step bringing in ridiculous arguments that can only be intended to give credibility to, and therefore apologise for moses' outrageous bigotry:

- mentioning only (100% of) muslim males as low intelligence due to inbreeding is 'plausible' because males are scientifically more susceptible to inbreeding-related defects
- bringing in the science of inbreeding to hint at moses' bigotry having a credible basis (even before you attempted to use it against my arguments)
- concluding that in fact both science and me differed with moses only in extent
- clutching at any "plausible" explanation for moses' bigotry that you can find - even when it directly contradicts what moses actually said (and then rant all day about me not wanting to confirm what he actually meant)


Off you go an another elaborate fantasy Gandalf. Can you find any quotes to back this up?
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #670 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 11:26am  
Back on the topic of "what is racism"....

freediver wrote on Jan 31st, 2017 at 9:28pm:
Quote:
I don't think there would be many people who would disagree on my definition of racism - which was "defined" long before I was around.


Everyone disagrees, including yourself. You have changed your mind many times in this thread. Now your definition has disappeared into thin air.

How many people do you think agree with this argument Gandalf?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 4th, 2017 at 4:02pm:
If you already acknowledge that racism can be based on "fake" races, why can't it be based on other "fake" and abritrary categorisations - that we just label 'defining race' for good measure?


So far we have examples like Muslims and doctors. What other "fake" races that have nothing to do with race can we include, and on what basis? The closest you have come to an explanation is that it must be a marker for a race, and the closest you have come to explaining what such a marker is is that it is a marker. Then you just tried desperately to change the subject to what Moses really meant.

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Re: What is racism?
Reply #671 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 1:33pm  
freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2017 at 11:25am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 3rd, 2017 at 9:48am:
freediver wrote on Jan 31st, 2017 at 9:34pm:
I am not saying Moses' argument is plausible, just that it is not racist.


So why are you bringing up 'plausible' explanations that directly contradict what he actually said?

The truth is FD you've been frantically scrambling for plausibility in moses' bigoted statement ever since I brought it up. You've flatly refused to say anything against it, hanging on to this red-herring that its not racist, therefore its ok. Or more specifically - its bigotry against muslims that I can endlessly argue the toss over why its not technically racist (and also implicity agree with), therefore its ok.

And I make no apologies for accusing you of sending the message that what moses said is ok: not just for refusing to condemn it, but at every step bringing in ridiculous arguments that can only be intended to give credibility to, and therefore apologise for moses' outrageous bigotry:

- mentioning only (100% of) muslim males as low intelligence due to inbreeding is 'plausible' because males are scientifically more susceptible to inbreeding-related defects
- bringing in the science of inbreeding to hint at moses' bigotry having a credible basis (even before you attempted to use it against my arguments)
- concluding that in fact both science and me differed with moses only in extent
- clutching at any "plausible" explanation for moses' bigotry that you can find - even when it directly contradicts what moses actually said (and then rant all day about me not wanting to confirm what he actually meant)


Off you go an another elaborate fantasy Gandalf. Can you find any quotes to back this up?


Every one of those points has a quote to back it up.

But this can easily be cleared up: are you prepared to join me in declaring what moses said bigoted and condemnable hate speech?

Do you think its important to condemn such speech, and that not condemning it makes one complicit in such hate speech?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #672 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 1:36pm  
freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2017 at 11:26am:
So far we have examples like Muslims and doctors. What other "fake" races that have nothing to do with race can we include, and on what basis?


You've included two yourself FD: sand-negro and 'non-whites'.

Neither are "races" by anyone's definition. And neither are even based on anyone's definition of a 'race' - which you originally tried to claim in the case of 'sand negro'.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #673 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 2:15pm  
freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2017 at 11:26am:
The closest you have come to an explanation is that it must be a marker for a race, and the closest you have come to explaining what such a marker is is that it is a marker.


A 'marker for a race' in terms of racism is whatever the racist deems it to be. It could be skin colour or a hijab or psychopathy, or low intelligence due to inbreeding. It really is that random. Where you are confused I think is in thinking there has to be some coherent, logical consistency to it - as if the racist is somehow thinking logically or coherently. They are not, and thats the whole point.The only consistency is that they are all used to define an ethno/cultural group (ie not a profession) with a negative broadbrush - for the purpose of simultaneously denigrating the 'outgroup' as inferior and promoting the 'ingroup' as superior. It also makes no sense to demand that I explain the rationale of the racist when they irrationally 'racialise' these ethno/cultural groups using these arbitrary markers - except to merely observe that their behaviour contains the attributes of racist behaviour.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: What is racism?
Reply #674 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 5:39pm  
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 3rd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2017 at 11:25am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 3rd, 2017 at 9:48am:
freediver wrote on Jan 31st, 2017 at 9:34pm:
I am not saying Moses' argument is plausible, just that it is not racist.


So why are you bringing up 'plausible' explanations that directly contradict what he actually said?

The truth is FD you've been frantically scrambling for plausibility in moses' bigoted statement ever since I brought it up. You've flatly refused to say anything against it, hanging on to this red-herring that its not racist, therefore its ok. Or more specifically - its bigotry against muslims that I can endlessly argue the toss over why its not technically racist (and also implicity agree with), therefore its ok.

And I make no apologies for accusing you of sending the message that what moses said is ok: not just for refusing to condemn it, but at every step bringing in ridiculous arguments that can only be intended to give credibility to, and therefore apologise for moses' outrageous bigotry:

- mentioning only (100% of) muslim males as low intelligence due to inbreeding is 'plausible' because males are scientifically more susceptible to inbreeding-related defects
- bringing in the science of inbreeding to hint at moses' bigotry having a credible basis (even before you attempted to use it against my arguments)
- concluding that in fact both science and me differed with moses only in extent
- clutching at any "plausible" explanation for moses' bigotry that you can find - even when it directly contradicts what moses actually said (and then rant all day about me not wanting to confirm what he actually meant)


Off you go an another elaborate fantasy Gandalf. Can you find any quotes to back this up?


Every one of those points has a quote to back it up.

But this can easily be cleared up: are you prepared to join me in declaring what moses said bigoted and condemnable hate speech?

Do you think its important to condemn such speech, and that not condemning it makes one complicit in such hate speech?



Oh look, FD's gone.

That was a useful 43 pages, no?
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