Australian Politics Forum - Natural Variation in regards to climate change

lee

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Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change
Reply #15 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 2:32pm

Unforgiven wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 2:16pm:

Not so according to NOAA.

http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F

Quote:
... Estimates of future carbon dioxide levels, based on business as usual emission scenarios, indicate that by the end of this century the surface waters of the ocean could be nearly 150 percent more acidic, resulting in a pH that the oceans haven’t experienced for more than 20 million years.

'Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the pH of surface ocean waters has fallen by 0.1 pH units. Since the pH scale, like the Richter scale, is logarithmic, this change represents approximately a 30 percent increase in acidity. '

http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F

'The oceans are naturally alkaline, with an average pH of around 8.2, although this can vary up to 0.3 units depending on location and season. '
http://www.grida.no/publications/rr/in-dead-water/page/1247.aspx

So the lower bounds would be pH of 7.9, in a worst case scenario. Take out a further 0.1 reduction per NOAA. And voila- Ocean PH of 7.8.

Far and away above pH 7.0 for neutrality.

BTW- a lovely picture of pteropods. Fancy giving them no time to acclimatise them to the differing pH levels. Someone should call the RSPCA or Blue Cross. Wink

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« Last Edit: Dec 21^st, 2016 at 2:37pm by lee »

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Pho Huc

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Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change
Reply #16 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 9:21pm

I'm going to give you a free hit here lee, because I know you've been struggling recently.

When you say "Natural Climate variation" you realize its a meaningless term right.

What your actually saying is "the effect of all forces on the climate in a non-homeodynamic ecology" (I feel like I just gave birth)

Basically It's the fact the environment isn't static. Its a complex system, affected by many factors.

No-one disputes that earth's climate is variable. Even those irritating scientist's acknowledge in passing that earths climate has changed in many ways through history( if you know that, its because of research published by those same scientists.)

Because they systematically collect and compare data they are able to analyse and understand the way the earth climate has behaved in the past.

I hope that nothing I have said so far is too controversial.

Now, because they understand what happened in the past, they can compare it to whats happening now.
In other words they can compare what was happening before human (Non anthropogenic climate change) and after human (anthropogenic climate change).

Again, nice and easy, nothing to complex.

Now scientists have observed that there is a difference between the way the climate behaved when humans were non-extant and how it behaves presently.

After comparing ALL the possible factors which could be changing the way the climate is currently behaving they are unable to come up with any other plausible explanation than GHG's are the key component.

If you want a paper proving any of the statements I have made, please highlight it and I shall provide ASAP.

If you have any credible information which disputes and of the points i have made, Please post it.

And if you just going obfuscate then...........

I'm sure you show me in your next post-Its not like your ever going to post a clear, reasoned, justified, statement explaining your position.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17962 Gender:	Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change Reply #17 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 10:56pm Pho Huc wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 9:21pm: If you want a paper proving any of the statements I have made, please highlight it and I shall provide ASAP. You haven't backed up promises to date. You kep[ whinging "I want you to prove it is not CO2". But back up your promise if you can.
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Pho Huc

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Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change
Reply #18 - Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 1:11am

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 9:21pm:

If you want a paper proving any of the statements I have made, please highlight it and I shall provide ASAP.

If you have any credible information which disputes and of the points i have made, Please post it.

And if you just going obfuscate then...........

I'm sure you show me in your next post-Its not like your ever going to post a clear, reasoned, justified, statement explaining your position.

I'm giving you the opportunity to request credible data for any of the statements I have made in the post above.

If you don't want me to justify them can I assume that you agree with them?

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TheFunPolice Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9009 waggawagga Gender:	Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change Reply #19 - Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 2:15am lee loves children: like malware
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lee

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Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change
Reply #20 - Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 10:51am

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 1:11am:

I'm giving you the opportunity to request credible data for any of the statements I have made in the post above.

If you don't want me to justify them can I assume that you agree with them?

lee wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 10:56pm:

You haven't backed up promises to date. You kep[ whinging "I want you to prove it is not CO2".

But back up your promise if you can.

And yet you still haven't backed up your promise.

Oh, Pleaease, Pretty Pleaease, provide something to prove any one of your assertions.

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Pho Huc

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Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change
Reply #21 - Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 2:21pm

Please post where I promised you anything.

Hell, if you cant justify your opinion on AGW surely you can quote the post where I promise you something.

Just make sure its not another post where your just getting burnt-
I'm getting sick of explaining to you that your actually embarrassing yourself, not justifying your position.

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lee

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Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change
Reply #22 - Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 2:49pm

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 2:21pm:

Please post where I promised you anything.

Yoy are right, you didn]t promise anything. You merely said-Pho Huc wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 9:21pm:

If you want a paper proving any of the statements I have made, please highlight it and I shall provide ASAP.

.
No promise.

So just provide some DATA that actually supports your position. Which I have asked for.

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Pho Huc

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Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change
Reply #23 - Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 2:55pm

lee wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 2:49pm:

Yoy are right, you didn]t promise anything. You merely said-Pho Huc wrote Yesterday at 9:21pm:
If you want a paper proving any of the statements I have made, please highlight it and I shall provide ASAP.
.
No promise.

So just provide some DATA that actually supports your position. Which I have asked for.

Im still happy to.
Just quote my post and highlight any of the assertions I made and I will provide evidence.

I don't know why you didn't just highlight them like I asked you too, but its was a fairly complex message I suppose.

That probably would have been too easy to understand, and obviously clarity of discourse is hardly your main objective when running a campaign of obfuscation.

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« Last Edit: Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 5:09pm by Pho Huc »

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change
Reply #24 - Dec 24^th, 2016 at 10:42am

Quote:

For this reason, "it's just a natural cycle" is a bit of a cop-out argument. The Earth doesn't warm up because it feels like it. It warms up because something forces it to.

That is a very important point.
Past natural climate changes have all been due to natural forcings such as, changes in the earths orbit, changes in the sun's output, continental drift, changes in the atmosphere etc

The warming since the start of the industrial revolution can not be accounted for by any natural forcings. Instead it is 7 billion people emitting CO2 into the atmosphere

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lee

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Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change
Reply #25 - Dec 24^th, 2016 at 3:03pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 24^th, 2016 at 10:42am:

The warming since the start of the industrial revolution can not be accounted for by any natural forcings. Instead it is 7 billion people emitting CO2 into the atmosphere

Yes. A burgeoning population through respiration will increase CO2.

1.2 billion in 1850, currently 7.4 billion - 600% increase.

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Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change Reply #26 - Dec 24^th, 2016 at 7:10pm And you lecture me on mathematical conflation!
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17962 Gender:	Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change Reply #27 - Dec 24^th, 2016 at 10:03pm Pho Huc wrote on Dec 24^th, 2016 at 7:10pm: And you lecture me on mathematical conflation! Yep because you can't add. But let us know what you don't understand.
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The_Barnacle

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Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change
Reply #28 - Dec 25^th, 2016 at 9:56am

lee wrote on Dec 24^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:

Yes. A burgeoning population through respiration will increase CO2.

1.2 billion in 1850, currently 7.4 billion - 600% increase.

That is priceless.
Lee is so desperate to protect the fossil fuel industry that he is trying to blame global warming on human respiration.
Clearly he is choosing to be ignorant of the carbon cycle

Quote:

But, in reality, the CO2 we’re breathing out is part of a natural cycle, by which our bodies convert carbohydrates from CO2-absorbing plants into energy, plus water and CO2. As such, we’re not adding any extra CO2. In contrast, burning fossil fuels like coal releases CO2 which has been locked up for millions of years, producing a net contribution to global warming.
http://www.sciencefocus.com/qa/how-much-does-human-breathing-contribute-climate-...

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lee

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Re: Natural Variation in regards to climate change
Reply #29 - Dec 25^th, 2016 at 11:15am

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 25^th, 2016 at 9:56am:

But, in reality, the CO2 we’re breathing out is part of a natural cycle, by which our bodies convert carbohydrates from CO2-absorbing plants into energy, plus water and CO2. As such, we’re not adding any extra CO2.

Is it exact? Is there a peer-review study confirming this?

Or is it an urban myth - like salt being bad for you?

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« Last Edit: Dec 25^th, 2016 at 11:24am by lee »

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