Australian Politics Forum - Land use change as a driver of Climate variation

Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation Reply #30 - Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 11:56pm So you don't really care if what you say is comprehensible or not........ I try and make all my posts clear. I have a reasoned position and I want people to understand me. I only try and confuse people when i'm running out of solid arguments. But that's me.
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Pho Huc

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #31 - Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 8:42am

So did you ever find any evidence to support your contentions that anything another than GHG's are responsible for climate change?

Now that we have established that the data demonstrates warming an order of magnitude faster than any time in the last million years,

Any ideas why?????????

With evidence? Roll Eyes

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lee

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #32 - Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 8:40pm

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 8:42am:

So did you ever find any evidence to support your contentions that anything another than GHG's are responsible for climate change?

Have you heard of UHI? Obviously not.

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 11:56pm:

So you don't really care if what you say is comprehensible or not........

It is only you, who wants to add 80% form one measurement to 85% from another measurement and come to a conclusion that CO2 is causing 80-85% of global warming. What a tool.

Yep. Your comprehension is lacking. Bye.

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Pho Huc

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #33 - Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 9:40pm

lee wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 8:40pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 8:42am:

So did you ever find any evidence to support your contentions that anything another than GHG's are responsible for climate change?

Have you heard of UHI? Obviously not.

Ah the mysterious third agent........
Water Vapor, Land use change and UHI.

I have heard of UHI-
I just didn't realise that anybody had done any credible research supporting it a main driver of climate change.
Dumb Dumb me!

Please provide a peer reviewed paper which demonstrates that Water Vapor Land use change UHI is driving climate change.

Not that this sort of request has ever caused you to post anything credible that supports your position, but I am an optimist!

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« Last Edit: Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 9:46pm by Pho Huc »

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lee

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #34 - Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 10:50pm

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 9:40pm:

Please provide a peer reviewed paper which demonstrates that Water Vapor Land use change UHI is driving climate change.

You don't realise how they calculate Global Temperature?

Most of the sites used are large cities. Large cities have large UHI. Concrete and asphalt lose heat more slowly overnight than rural land. That raises the average night time temperature. Of course in cold climates the UHI is a function of the heating of the buildings, (furnaces etc)

http://www.meteo.fr/icuc9/presentations/UCP/UCP2-4.pdf

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Pho Huc

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #35 - Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 11:02pm

I'm aware of what UHI is.
You forgot to mention airports(that's a common one too)

Now that we've established that I know which particular flavor garbage your peddling tonight,

Please be a doll and post some credible research that supports your assertion UHI is distorting change date......thats supports your opinion......Its Xmas-go on, gimme a present

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lee

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #36 - Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 11:14pm

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 11:02pm:

You forgot to mention airports(that's a common one too)

Now that we've established that I know which particular flavor garbage your peddling tonight,

So yo

u don't believe UHI affects local and therefore global temperatures?

"The term "heat island" describes built up areas that are hotter than nearby rural areas. The annual mean air temperature of a city with 1 million people or more can be 1.8–5.4°F (1–3°C) warmer than its surroundings. In the evening, the difference can be as high as 22°F (12°C). "

https://www.epa.gov/heat-islands

Of course your favourite resource Skeptical Science says it "has no significant influence". But I'm not arguing "Significant" influence, merely influence.

It is all these things adding up. Little and not so little influences on global temperature.

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Pho Huc

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #37 - Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 11:29pm

I have never seen any research that indicated that UHI had not been accounted for(along with land use change or water vapor).
Since the papers I have read state it is accounted for, and I have seen no evidence to he contrary I accept that it is indeed included in their calculations.

Show me credible research supporting your position that UHI is having a significant impact on the data supporting AGW and we can talk.

otherwise....walk

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lee

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #38 - Dec 24^th, 2016 at 2:52pm

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2016 at 11:29pm:

I have never seen any research that indicated that UHI had not been accounted for(along with land use change or water vapor).

You didn't read Chapter 9 of the IPCC ar5 page 78, did you. It lists feedbacks and what models , if any, used them.

https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter09_FINAL.pdf

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Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation Reply #39 - Dec 24^th, 2016 at 7:13pm This would be you again selectively cherry picking that large IPCC report which disagrees with your fundamental position? If I was use you I would look up the early warning signs for RSI and keep an eye open.
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lee

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #40 - Dec 24^th, 2016 at 10:07pm

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 24^th, 2016 at 7:13pm:

This would be you again selectively cherry picking that large IPCC report which disagrees with your fundamental position?

I can't help your confirmation bias. Fancy refusing to look at how the models work. Those models which you say don't mean much to you,but is what all the "evidence" is.

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 24^th, 2016 at 7:13pm:

If I was use you I would look up the early warning signs for RSI and keep an eye open.

Speaking from experience? Good to know.

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Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation Reply #41 - Dec 25^th, 2016 at 6:33pm So, you have had a few days now, Any luck finding any credible research that supports your assertion that land use rather than CO2 emissions are driving climate change?
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lee

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #42 - Dec 25^th, 2016 at 7:14pm

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 25^th, 2016 at 6:33pm:

So,
you have had a few days now,

Any luck finding any credible research that supports your assertion that land use rather than CO2 emissions are driving climate change?

Pleas quote where I said that land use change rather than CO2 emissions are driving climate change.

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Pho Huc

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #43 - Dec 25^th, 2016 at 7:58pm

lee wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 10:16pm:

Once again you distort what I wrote. Land use change

is

one part of global warming. CO2 is

postulated

to be another. I never ascribed a ratio to either. Are you being wilfully ignorant?

Note the language.
Land use change is one part of global warming(definitive) (always good to see you acknowledge global warming btw)

CO2 is postulated to be another.(tentative)

Its obvious that you only want to blame things other than CO2, because of the things you post. Not even an element of an open mind.

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lee

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Re: Land use change as a driver of Climate variation
Reply #44 - Dec 25^th, 2016 at 8:16pm

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 25^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

Land use change is one part of global warming(definitive)

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 25^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

CO2 is postulated to be another.(tentative)

Of course it is water vapour is a much larger presence than CO2. Yet your claim is it is "the MAIN driver" of climate change, not a driver. CO2 warming is an hypothesis, it is not the null hypothesis.

I am very aware of my language use.

Pho Huc wrote on Dec 25^th, 2016 at 7:58pm:

(always good to see you acknowledge global warming btw)

Yes. Then there are the negative effects, particulates etc, it is what the net effect is rather than any one thing.

BTW- your claim was that l said land use change was " driving climate change."

Not so. It is a contributor.

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« Last Edit: Dec 25^th, 2016 at 8:23pm by lee »

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