Australian Politics Forum - Universal Basic Income

longweekend58

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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #15 - Jan 20^th, 2017 at 3:12pm

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 1:24pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 6:20pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 5:54pm:

Free money becomes a right and a new addiction.

Some Ozpolitic denizens often whine about not getting enough free taxpayer money.

It IS a right, like it or not.

Bullsh1t!

Just because some pollie said something a few lifetime ago, does not make it a right; it is something that was said once, nothing more.

We have no rights, we have obligations and privileges, welfare is but one of them.

As greece found out, when there is no money the big bucket of 'free' welfare comes to a screaming halt.

Learn to live without someone else supporting you; you will be a lot happier.

Well said. And Menzies was referring to an unemployment benefit that was very small and no substitute for actually working. Kat is just a lazy bugger as has been discovered long ago.

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freediver

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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #16 - Jan 20^th, 2017 at 8:03pm

Kat wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 1:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 7:52pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 6:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 2:41pm:

The fundamental flaw in this entire idiotic idea is that somehow, everyone deserves an income without working. The demise of the british aristocracy was entirely because of this - generations of wasted lives who largely achieved nothing beyond breeding during their entire lives.

And the flaw in YOURS is that the days of there being sufficient paid work for all who
want it are LONG GONE. And they won't be returning any time soon.

Not that UBI will ever happen with a right-wing government, or while the idiotic middle
class think THEY somehow lose-out to the mythical 'bludger', or that it somehow 'costs'
them something.

So, apart from a guaranteed basic income or simply killing the poor, what's YOUR solution?

People have been saying this since the industrial revolution. It has never been true. The employment rate has nearly always hovered close to full employment.

We would have full employment overnight if they got rid of minimum wages.

Rubbish!

That's not employment, it's slavery.

And where do you see the needed but non-existent 600,00 needed jobs coming from?

Considering, of course, that reducing the min wage WILL NOT result in more jobs for
workers, but higher profits for parasitic 'shareholders'.

Do you mean "actual" slavery, or "I'm having a moan about having to get out of bed in the morning when I could be on the dole letting other people pay my way" slavery?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Kat

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Socialism IS the answer.

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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #17 - Jan 20^th, 2017 at 8:09pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 3:12pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 1:24pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 6:20pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 5:54pm:

Free money becomes a right and a new addiction.

Some Ozpolitic denizens often whine about not getting enough free taxpayer money.

It IS a right, like it or not.

Bullsh1t!

Just because some pollie said something a few lifetime ago, does not make it a right; it is something that was said once, nothing more.

We have no rights, we have obligations and privileges, welfare is but one of them.

As greece found out, when there is no money the big bucket of 'free' welfare comes to a screaming halt.

Learn to live without someone else supporting you; you will be a lot happier.

Well said. And Menzies was referring to an unemployment benefit that was very small and no substitute for actually working. Kat is just a lazy bugger as has been discovered long ago.

Haven't I told you before - when I want the dogs to bark, I'll rattle a plate.

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Kat

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Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
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Gender: female

Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #18 - Jan 20^th, 2017 at 8:14pm

freediver wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 8:03pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 1:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 7:52pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 6:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 2:41pm:

The fundamental flaw in this entire idiotic idea is that somehow, everyone deserves an income without working. The demise of the british aristocracy was entirely because of this - generations of wasted lives who largely achieved nothing beyond breeding during their entire lives.

And the flaw in YOURS is that the days of there being sufficient paid work for all who
want it are LONG GONE. And they won't be returning any time soon.

Not that UBI will ever happen with a right-wing government, or while the idiotic middle
class think THEY somehow lose-out to the mythical 'bludger', or that it somehow 'costs'
them something.

So, apart from a guaranteed basic income or simply killing the poor, what's YOUR solution?

People have been saying this since the industrial revolution. It has never been true. The employment rate has nearly always hovered close to full employment.

We would have full employment overnight if they got rid of minimum wages.

Rubbish!

That's not employment, it's slavery.

And where do you see the needed but non-existent 600,00 needed jobs coming from?

Considering, of course, that reducing the min wage WILL NOT result in more jobs for
workers, but higher profits for parasitic 'shareholders'.

Do you mean "actual" slavery, or "I'm

having a moan about having to get out of bed in the morning when I could be on the dole letting other people pay my way

" slavery?

I don't know much about that one. I generally enjoy my job.

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rhino

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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #19 - Jan 20^th, 2017 at 8:52pm

freediver wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 7:52pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 6:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 2:41pm:

The fundamental flaw in this entire idiotic idea is that somehow, everyone deserves an income without working. The demise of the british aristocracy was entirely because of this - generations of wasted lives who largely achieved nothing beyond breeding during their entire lives.

And the flaw in YOURS is that the days of there being sufficient paid work for all who
want it are LONG GONE. And they won't be returning any time soon.

Not that UBI will ever happen with a right-wing government, or while the idiotic middle
class think THEY somehow lose-out to the mythical 'bludger', or that it somehow 'costs'
them something.

So, apart from a guaranteed basic income or simply killing the poor, what's YOUR solution?

People have been saying this since the industrial revolution. It has never been true. The employment rate has nearly always hovered close to full employment. We would have full employment overnight if they got rid of minimum wages.

sure. But we are in the middle of a technological revolution, change is happening at a greater rate than at any time in the history of the planet and its accelerating. At no time in our history has there been such a great gap of knowledge between generations. AI is changing everything, within our lifetime there will be no such thing as a job which involves physical labour, we already have driverless cars on the horizon, totally automated factories, the list goes on. I think the smart thing is to prepare for a future where there are no jobs. AI is a game changer which can not be compared to any other innovation in our history.

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freediver

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At my desk.

Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #20 - Jan 20^th, 2017 at 10:46pm

Kat wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 8:14pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 8:03pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 1:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 7:52pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 6:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 2:41pm:

The fundamental flaw in this entire idiotic idea is that somehow, everyone deserves an income without working. The demise of the british aristocracy was entirely because of this - generations of wasted lives who largely achieved nothing beyond breeding during their entire lives.

And the flaw in YOURS is that the days of there being sufficient paid work for all who
want it are LONG GONE. And they won't be returning any time soon.

Not that UBI will ever happen with a right-wing government, or while the idiotic middle
class think THEY somehow lose-out to the mythical 'bludger', or that it somehow 'costs'
them something.

So, apart from a guaranteed basic income or simply killing the poor, what's YOUR solution?

People have been saying this since the industrial revolution. It has never been true. The employment rate has nearly always hovered close to full employment.

We would have full employment overnight if they got rid of minimum wages.

Rubbish!

That's not employment, it's slavery.

And where do you see the needed but non-existent 600,00 needed jobs coming from?

Considering, of course, that reducing the min wage WILL NOT result in more jobs for
workers, but higher profits for parasitic 'shareholders'.

Do you mean "actual" slavery, or "I'm

having a moan about having to get out of bed in the morning when I could be on the dole letting other people pay my way

" slavery?

I don't know much about that one. I generally enjoy my job.

This sounds familiar. I think this is where the last thread went.

How much do you know about actual slavery?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74257 Gender:	Re: Universal Basic Income Reply #21 - Jan 20^th, 2017 at 11:12pm freediver wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 7:52pm: . We would have full employment overnight if they got rid of minimum wages. what a load of croc. what you'd have are people who work 12 hrs a day and still won't be able to afford food.
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AiA

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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #22 - Jan 20^th, 2017 at 11:18pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 2:41pm:

The fundamental flaw in this entire idiotic idea is that somehow, everyone deserves an income without working. The demise of the british aristocracy was entirely because of this - generations of wasted lives who largely achieved nothing beyond breeding during their entire lives.

the demise of the British aristocracy was as much changes in the world economy as anything else: they held the land. the food of a nation was grown on that land. then food was able to be imported from America cheaply and those imports grew, undermining the aristocracy.

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« Last Edit: Jan 20^th, 2017 at 11:46pm by AiA »

“Jerry, just remember: It’s not a lie … if you believe it.” George Costanza

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AiA

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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #23 - Jan 20^th, 2017 at 11:53pm

AiA wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 11:18pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 2:41pm:

The fundamental flaw in this entire idiotic idea is that somehow, everyone deserves an income without working. The demise of the british aristocracy was entirely because of this - generations of wasted lives who largely achieved nothing beyond breeding during their entire lives.

the demise of the British aristocracy was as much changes in the world economy as anything else: they held the land. the food of a nation was grown on that land. then food was able to be imported from America cheaply and those imports grew, undermining the aristocracy.

then wealthy American families came to the rescue of the British aristocracy by marrying off daughters: the American girl got the title and the husband got the dowry and so was able to maintain his standard of living. Winston Churchill's mother was one of these American women sold into the aristocracy.

As to the UBI, it's gonna happen. The Swiss, always a practical people, voted it down - a sign that the idea isn't ripe yet.

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“Jerry, just remember: It’s not a lie … if you believe it.” George Costanza

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BigOl64

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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #24 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 5:31am

Kat wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 8:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 3:12pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 1:24pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 6:20pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 5:54pm:

Free money becomes a right and a new addiction.

Some Ozpolitic denizens often whine about not getting enough free taxpayer money.

It IS a right, like it or not.

Bullsh1t!

Just because some pollie said something a few lifetime ago, does not make it a right; it is something that was said once, nothing more.

We have no rights, we have obligations and privileges, welfare is but one of them.

As greece found out, when there is no money the big bucket of 'free' welfare comes to a screaming halt.

Learn to live without someone else supporting you; you will be a lot happier.

Well said. And Menzies was referring to an unemployment benefit that was very small and no substitute for actually working. Kat is just a lazy bugger as has been discovered long ago.

Haven't I told you before - when I want the dogs to bark, I'll rattle a plate.

Don't like being told your liberal hero is an irrelevant blowhard, stung a bit did it?

Let me say it again; welfare is not a right it is a privileged and it is provided only when it is affordable.

Luckily Australian inter-generational dole bludgers have enjoyed that privileged for a long time without having to worry about the taxpayer being able to wet nurse them, and their entire family. We do love our bludging filth.

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freediver

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Re: Universal Basic Income
Reply #25 - Jan 21^st, 2017 at 8:12am

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2017 at 11:12pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 7:52pm:

. We would have full employment overnight if they got rid of minimum wages.

what a load of croc.

what you'd have are people who work 12 hrs a day and still won't be able to afford food.

I think we are currently less than 1% away from what is considered "full" employment. How much do you think wages would have to drop to bring that down to zero? On top of that there would be extra money available to hire people because taxes would go down.

You can not get 100% employment, any more than you can get 100% occupancy of rental properties. 5% unemployed is considered full employment. Note that this is about double the percentage of the population that was considered full employment a century ago.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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