Australian Politics Forum - DFAT funding Islamic propaganda

BigOl64

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #30 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 1:42pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 1:32pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 1:25pm:

we just disagree as to the extent of that culture that makes the proponents of islam and muslim culture such vile human beings.

This is what progressive muslims are up against: demanded to 'reform' their religion, and when they try to do so - by arguing that muslims should adopt a more progressive interpretation of the Quran, they are "vile human beings" for daring to suggest a progressive interpretation of the Quran exists.

The only way you lot are getting out of the 14th century way of behaviour is to get rid of the whole religion. Why do you think you're still throwing rocks at each other in the ME?

There are very few backward christian types in this country as well and we are all the better for it. Simply, believing in bullsh1t fairy tales makes you stupid, the more you believe them, the more stupid you are.

Jeez you can start by not having your women dress like a character from Life of Brian.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #31 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:14pm

'you' this, 'you' that...

like I personally stone people and I personally force a tent on my wife. You're incredible Big Ol - you oscilate between lumping me in with the stone throwing misogynists on the one hand, and condemning me as a "vile human being" for daring to insist that those things aren't part of Islam on the other.

Not only do you have no idea about my personal beliefs in relation to Islam and what a gigantic strawman you are constructing, you aren't even interested in understanding. All you want to do is shout me down whenever I try to explain. Just like Lambie.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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BigOl64

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #32 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:25pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:14pm:

'you' this, 'you' that...

like I personally stone people and I personally force a tent on my wife. You're incredible Big Ol - you oscilate between lumping me in with the stone throwing misogynists on the one hand, and condemning me as a "vile human being" for daring to insist that those things aren't part of Islam on the other.

Not only do you have no idea about my personal beliefs in relation to Islam and what a gigantic strawman you are constructing, you aren't even interested in understanding. All you want to do is shout me down whenever I try to explain. Just like Lambie.

My education forbids me from using the word 'youse', because you is the plural of you and can be use to refer to a group or cohort.

I can, under duress, use 'you lot' all the time, if you insist.

As for your religion, I doubt whether 'you lot' could even come close to making the necessary changes to come even close to being an acceptable members of this society. Not unless of course we start deporting some of your fellow believers and 'you lot' have the media exposure appropriate to your population.

Unlike these chaps here

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polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #33 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:43pm

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:25pm:

My education forbids me from using the word 'youse', because you is the plural of you and can be use to refer to a group or cohort.

I can, under duress, use 'you lot' all the time, if you insist.

Either way you are still referring to me personally - even if you are referring to a collective.

That is obviously highly offensive to me. You are de-facto labelling me a terrorist supporter, misogynist (hilarious coming from you) etc, despite the complete lack of evidence of me having anything close to those inclinations.

But more importantly, its the same old 'othering' process, of lumping any outgroup (in this case muslims) as a monolith with a hive mind. And as long as people like you insist on seeing the world in this way, there is no hope of you understanding or accepting muslims in your community. And certainly no hope of you allowing yourselves to appreciate the existence of muslims who genuinely promote a progressive and humanist version of Islam that is perfectly compatible with western culture. As you say, our only hope of redemption "is to get rid of the whole religion". In your narrow-minded world view, muslims are deprived of their individuality, deprived of agency and deprived of their human rights.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #34 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:46pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:43pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:25pm:

My education forbids me from using the word 'youse', because you is the plural of you and can be use to refer to a group or cohort.

I can, under duress, use 'you lot' all the time, if you insist.

Either way you are still referring to me personally - even if you are referring to a collective.

That is obviously highly offensive to me. You are de-facto labelling me a terrorist supporter, misogynist (hilarious coming from you) etc, despite the complete lack of evidence of me having anything close to those inclinations.

But more importantly, its the same old 'othering' process, of lumping any outgroup (in this case muslims) as a monolith with a hive mind. And as long as people like you insist on seeing the world in this way, there is no hope of you understanding or accepting muslims in your community. And certainly no hope of you allowing yourselves to appreciate the existence of muslims who genuinely promote a progressive and humanist version of Islam that is perfectly compatible with western culture. As you say, our only hope of redemption "is to get rid of the whole religion". In your narrow-minded world view, muslims are deprived of their individuality, deprived of agency and deprived of their human rights.

Would you like to see they jews thrown out of Israel?

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Grendel

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #35 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:47pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Grendel wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 12:47pm:

Honestly the whole belief you posted there is a load of rubbish.

Rather than blustering hot air all the time Grendel, perhaps you would do better to try refute the actual points that I make.

I did no blustering involved.

Lets start with inheritance rights: do you deny that unlike the Bible, the Quran stipulates women's rights to inheritance in the case where there are also eligible males?

lets stick to the crap you wrote, no moving goalpost needed gandalf no bwian ross tactic to be used. Oh and if you want to discuss Christian beliefs lets discuss the actual NEW TESTAMENT not the Old which is Jewish history cultural laws and beliefs eh.

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Grendel

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #36 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:49pm

One more time...
Grendel wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 12:47pm:

Quote:

It is. But I must admit its not up against much competition. The bible for example pins the blame of the "original sin" to women, making them forever irredeemably mistrustful. And for that, women forever after are to be punished by having to go through the agony of child birth. The bible constantly depicts women simultaneously as inferior and inately devious - and men shouldn't hesitate to execute them at the first hint of disobedience or promiscuity.

What a load of rubbish... Do Christian men need to have their women dressed in tents to stop themselves from raping them? To stop other men from losing control of their sexual desires?

Honestly the whole belief you posted there is a load of rubbish. Perhaps it is what Muslim men think of women.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #37 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:06pm

This should be easy to settle Grendel - just point me to the Quranic passage, chapter and verse that orders men to "have their women dressed in tents".

Grendel wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:47pm:

Oh and if you want to discuss Christian beliefs lets discuss the actual NEW TESTAMENT not the Old which is Jewish history cultural laws and beliefs eh.

Happy to. Just remind me of the new testament verse that accords women inheritance rights even when there are eligible males.

Meanwhile lets regale ourselves in other New Testament affirmation of Women's rights:

1 Corinthians 11:2-10:
Quote:

“But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of every woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God…. any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head …For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair …For a man ought not to cover his head; since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.)”

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Quote:

…the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.”

1 Timothy 2:11-15
Quote:

“Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.”

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #38 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:15pm

"O you Children of Adam! We have bestowed on you raiment to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition.” (Quran 7:26)4

“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in ord1er to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #39 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:19pm You can't be serious homo. At least put a bit of effort into it.
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Mr Hammer Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25212 Gender:	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #40 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:21pm polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:19pm: You can't be serious homo. At least put a bit of effort into it. Do you support Hamas and would you like to see the jews thrown out of the middle east? I expect the usual no answer.
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Mr Hammer

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #41 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:24pm

Quran 24:31] And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, (with their Khimar) and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to God, O you believers, that you may succeed.

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Grendel

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #42 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:26pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:06pm:

This should be easy to settle Grendel - just point me to the Quranic passage, chapter and verse that orders men to "have their women dressed in tents".

Grendel wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:47pm:

Oh and if you want to discuss Christian beliefs lets discuss the actual NEW TESTAMENT not the Old which is Jewish history cultural laws and beliefs eh.

Happy to. Just remind me of the new testament verse that accords women inheritance rights even when there are eligible males.

Meanwhile lets regale ourselves in other New Testament affirmation of Women's rights:

1 Corinthians 11:2-10:
Quote:

“But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of every woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God…. any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head …For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair …For a man ought not to cover his head; since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.)”

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Quote:

…the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.”

1 Timothy 2:11-15
Quote:

“Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.”

Oh dear.... what did I tell you.... no moving the goalposts... so do you concede that I was right and you just wrote a bunch of crap?
Ok I'll move on when you admit it.

Oh and I think you will find the Koran and the Haddiths are not the same as the new Testament Bible... which isn't a book on how every aspect of your life must be lived.

In our secular world we have laws etc to cover things like divorce and settlements of divorce etc.

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freediver

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #43 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:28pm

Quote:

Presumably there is some point to that quote that is relevant to the accusation in the thread title? I suppose Yasminn was paid by DFAT to go on Q&A and promote 'Islamic propaganda'?

Yes.

Quote:

Can you actually explain how you interpret this DFAT funded trip as 'funding Islamic propaganda'? Does it make sense to you that a muslim being paid to visit muslim countries to promote Australia equates to 'Islamic propaganda'?

It depends what she is actually promoting. DFAT wouldn't say.

Quote:

Do you reckon there might be sound economic reasons to promote Australia to the Middle East that DFAT (you know the guys who are actually responsible for overseas trade and stuff like that) are aware of?

She doesn't seem like the trade negotiator type. She seems more like the Islamic propagandist type. Hence DFAT covering up the details.

Quote:

It is. But I must admit its not up against much competition. The bible for example pins the blame of the "original sin" to women, making them forever irredeemably mistrustful. And for that, women forever after are to be punished by having to go through the agony of child birth.

What is the testimony of a woman worth compared to a man in a shariah court?

Are you blaming Christianity for the pain associated with childbirth?

Quote:

The Quran on the other hand did away with the whole 'women are to blame for the fall of man' nonsense, emphasised a whole swathe of protections for women, and was the first text of its kind to stipulate inheritance and property rights for women.

Islam built an empire on the back of the trade in sex slaves. It is still doing it. The reason this sort of behaviour is so hard to get rid of is that Islam compels Muslims to believe that a man who did all these horrible things is the perfect example for all mankind. That makes it pretty hard for Muslims to say that having sex with children, raping and pillaging etc are inherently wrong.

Quote:

That the middle east is dominated by misogynists who choose to ignore Quranic sanctioned rights for women - does not change the fact that the Islamic law itself is inherently feminist.

How can you possibly support sex slavery without being a mysoginist?

Quote:

Lets start with inheritance rights

Wouldn't it make more sense to start with the right not be be bought and sold like a goat? Islam was and still is the greatest barrier to the eradication of slavery.

Quote:

This is what progressive muslims are up against: demanded to 'reform' their religion, and when they try to do so - by arguing that muslims should adopt a more progressive interpretation of the Quran, they are "vile human beings" for daring to suggest a progressive interpretation of the Quran exists.

This is your invention Gandalf. Most critics of Islam are entirely inconsist - Islam is irredeemable and you should abandon it instead. No point polishing a turd.

Quote:

like I personally stone people and I personally force a tent on my wife

You do personally use racist propaganda in support of genocide. Islam compels you to. If you were not a Muslim you would feel shame in what you posted here.

Quote:

As for your religion, I doubt whether 'you lot' could even come close to making the necessary changes to come even close to being an acceptable members of this society. Not unless of course we start deporting some of your fellow believers and 'you lot' have the media exposure appropriate to your population.

To do so is to destroy Islam. Once you insist on saying that Muhammed did things that are inherently wrong, there is nothing left but a 7th century warmonger.

Quote:

Either way you are still referring to me personally - even if you are referring to a collective.
That is obviously highly offensive to me.

Because he is suggesting you are part of some mindless collective?

Quote:

But more importantly, its the same old 'othering' process, of lumping any outgroup (in this case muslims) as a monolith with a hive mind.

We can't have that now can we? Next thing you know he will be using it to support genocide.

Quote:

And certainly no hope of you allowing yourselves to appreciate the existence of muslims who genuinely promote a progressive and humanist version of Islam that is perfectly compatible with western culture.

Have you ever met such a Muslim?

Quote:

In your narrow-minded world view, muslims are deprived of their individuality, deprived of agency and deprived of their human rights.

Hypocrite.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #44 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:29pm

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Ahzaab 33:59]

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