Australian Politics Forum - DFAT funding Islamic propaganda

polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #45 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:34pm

Funny isn't it. That verse goes to so much trouble specifying what should and shouldn't be covered - when all it really needed to say was "cover everything". Right?

I've always found it funny how so many muslims cite the Quran to insist the covering of women's hair is compulsory - yet there is not a single mention of the word "hair".

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #46 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:37pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:34pm:

Funny isn't it. That verse goes to so much trouble specifying what should and shouldn't be covered - when all it really needed to say was "cover everything". Right?

I've always found it funny how so many muslims cite the Quran to insist the covering of women's hair is compulsory - yet there is not a single mention of the word "hair".

They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary.....

I suppose that means the hands so they can do the shopping.

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Grendel

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #47 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:39pm

Oh dear you are clueless aren't you.
Do you know what is contained in the New Testament?
Do you have a clue as to what I was talking about?
Obviously not.
The teachings of Christ, the beginnings of Christianity. Oh and you realise we have had a reformation don't you?

Anyhow... I think you should move all this crap to another topic where it belongs and I'll address it there.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:06pm:

This should be easy to settle Grendel - just point me to the Quranic passage, chapter and verse that orders men to "have their women dressed in tents".

I have never said any such thing exists... so strawman/lie number 1. Perhaps you could explain why it occurs then.

[quote author=grendel link=1487240389/35#35 date=1487393226]Oh and if you want to discuss Christian beliefs lets discuss the actual NEW TESTAMENT not the Old which is Jewish history cultural laws and beliefs eh.

Happy to. Just remind me of the new testament verse that accords women inheritance rights even when there are eligible males.

Why isn't that strawman number 2? yes it is...

Now if you want to discuss texts move this crap off this topic to another one... I don't want you muddying the waters here.
We can discuss letters from Paul etc, etc, etc their purpose meanings etc...elsewhere.
Oh and if you are going to quote me post the whole quote so I can be sure its actually me you are quoting.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #48 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:45pm

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Quote:
Presumably there is some point to that quote that is relevant to the accusation in the thread title? I suppose Yasminn was paid by DFAT to go on Q&A and promote 'Islamic propaganda'?

Yes.

Yes she was paid by DFAT to go on Q&A to promote Islamic propaganda? Could you expand on that so we're crystal clear on what new levels of absurdity you have now reached?

I wouldn't want you to accuse me of misquoting you while I spend the next 12 months ridiculing you for this.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49371 At my desk.	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #49 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:47pm Or you could have simply read the second response in my previous post Gandalf.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #50 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:48pm I heard she was on a book promotion tour... selling her book funded by Australian taxpayers.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #51 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:48pm Grendel wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:39pm: I have never said any such thing exists... so strawman/lie number 1. Perhaps you could explain why it occurs then. Islam = Islamic texts. You can't discuss what "Islam" does and doesn't allow without referring to the source texts.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #52 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:51pm

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:47pm:

Or you could have simply read the second response in my previous post Gandalf.

You mean this?

Quote:

It depends what she is actually promoting. DFAT wouldn't say.

Sorry, still not clear. Yes or no - are you saying DFAT paid Yasminn to go on Q&A to promote Islamic propaganda? Its a simple question, no need to be cryptic about it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49371 At my desk.	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #53 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:55pm Yes.
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Yadda

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #54 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:58pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:43pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:25pm:

My education forbids me from using the word 'youse', because you is the plural of you and can be use to refer to a group or cohort.

Either way you are still referring to me personally - even if you are referring to a collective.

That is obviously highly offensive to me. You are de-facto labelling me a terrorist supporter, misogynist (hilarious coming from you) etc, despite the complete lack of evidence of me having anything close to those inclinations.

But more importantly, its the same old 'othering' process

, of lumping any outgroup (in this case muslims) as a monolith with a hive mind.

Yeah, that 'othering' process eh gandalf !!!!

It is just so, so despicable and unfair when people, willy nilly, associate moslems with ISLAM, isn't it gandalf !!!

/sarc off

.

Yeah, that 'othering' process eh gandalf !!!

It is just so, so outrageous, whenever you see those filthy infidels, who are in their own lands!!!! and trying to socially segregate moslems and condemn moslems, and 'persecute' moslems [just because moslems want to pray to Allah] !!!

/sarc off

But when ISLAM teaches moslems to segregate themselves FROM disbelievers, and to condemn them, and to MURDER them, THEN, it is wholly 'virtuous'.

Right gandalf ?

Google;
divisions of the world, according to islam

Google;
ISLAM divides the world, into the House of Islam and the House of War

ISLAMIC 'religious' doctrine, divides the world into two distinct camps.

DIVISIONS OF THE WORLD, ACCORDING TO ISLAM,

Dar al-Islam = = the house of Islam, the house of Peace, the house of Submission [those places where Sharia has authority].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-Islam#Dar_al-Islam

Dar al-Harb = = "house of war", those countries where Sharia has to subservient, to the laws of men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-Islam#Dar_al-Harb

Dar al-Harb = =
the place where the authority of ISLAMIC law is rejected,
the place where moslems have to concede, to disbelievers, their 'rightful' authority to rule,
the place where moslems are subject to the 'unjust' laws of the disbelievers,
the place of moslem HUMILIATION before disbelievers,
the "house of war"

The moslem who is living in Australia, regards EVERY disbeliever [i.e. every Australian] as a 'Harbi'.

And what is a 'Harbi' ?

Harbi = = "one under a declaration of war", a non-moslem, WHO IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE AUTHORITY MOSLEM/ISLAMIC LAW.

A Harbi, is an enemy of Allah.

".........A harbi has no rights, not even the right to live."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbi

Google,

"A harbi has no rights, not even the right to live."

.

Yeah, that 'othering' process eh gandalf !!!

It is just so, so outrageous, whenever you see those filthy infidels, who are in their own lands!!!! and trying to socially segregate moslems and condemn moslems, and 'persecute' moslems [just because moslems want to pray to Allah] !!!

/sarc off

But when ISLAM teaches moslems to segregate themselves FROM disbelievers, and to condemn them, and to MURDER them, THEN, it is wholly 'virtuous'.

Right gandalf ?

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

.

Yeah, that 'othering' process eh gandalf !!!

It is just so, so outrageous, whenever you see those filthy infidels, who are in their own lands!!!! and trying to socially segregate moslems and condemn moslems, and 'persecute' moslems [just because moslems want to pray to Allah] !!!

/sarc off

But when ISLAM teaches moslems to segregate themselves FROM disbelievers, and to condemn them, and to MURDER them, THEN, it is wholly 'virtuous'.

Right gandalf ?

And who gives those infidels the right to believe that they do not have to worship Allah !!!!!!

Its simply an outrageous, vile crime!

Because the precepts, tenets, doctrines, and law of ISLAM, all declare that unbelief in man is a capital crime.

Google;

islam, unbelief is worse than killing

Allah says, kill unbelievers.

The Koran and the Hadith say, kill unbelievers.

Mohammed said, kill unbelievers.

ISLAMIC law says, it is lawful to kill unbelievers.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #55 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:58pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:43pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:25pm:

My education forbids me from using the word 'youse', because you is the plural of you and can be use to refer to a group or cohort.

I can, under duress, use 'you lot' all the time, if you insist.

Either way you are still referring to me personally - even if you are referring to a collective.

That is obviously highly offensive to me. You are de-facto labelling me a terrorist supporter, misogynist (hilarious coming from you) etc, despite the complete lack of evidence of me having anything close to those inclinations.

gandalf,

You are a moslem, correct ?

BUT, you do not give Mohammed, the messenger of Allah, any lawful authority, correct ?

AND, you do not give the verses of the Koran any lawful authority [e.g. the ones that preach hatred of disbelievers], correct ?

AND, you do not give ISLAMIC law, and you do not give the tenets and doctrines of ISLAM any lawful authority, correct ?

PLEASE, DO EXPLAIN TO US ALL, ....HOW DOES THAT WORK ?

"Hi. I'm gandalf, and i'm a moslem. But the tenets and doctrines and laws of mainstream ISLAM do not have any lawful authority over me and mine."

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38845 Gender:	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #56 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:07pm freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:55pm: Yes. Great. An answer!!! Remarkable. How about you now back it up with some hard and direct evidence.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #57 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:09pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:43pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 2:25pm:

My education forbids me from using the word 'youse', because you is the plural of you and can be use to refer to a group or cohort.

I can, under duress, use 'you lot' all the time, if you insist.

Either way you are still referring to me personally - even if you are referring to a collective.

That is obviously highly offensive to me. You are de-facto labelling me a terrorist supporter, misogynist (hilarious coming from you) etc, despite the complete lack of evidence of me having anything close to those inclinations.

gandalf,

You are a moslem, correct ?

BUT, you do not give Mohammed, the messenger of Allah, any lawful authority, correct ?

AND, you do not give the verses of the Koran any lawful authority [e.g. the ones that preach hatred of disbelievers], correct ?

AND, you do not give ISLAMIC law, and you do not give the tenets and doctrines of ISLAM any lawful authority, correct ?

PLEASE, DO EXPLAIN TO US ALL, ....HOW DOES THAT WORK ?

"Hi. I'm gandalf, and i'm a moslem. But the tenets and doctrines and laws of mainstream ISLAM do not have any lawful authority over me and mine."

Islam should be a purely personal journey, it has no place in the laws of the land IMO.

More than 90% of the Quran is dedicated to emphasising the personal/spiritual aspects and obligations for muslims in their worship. And to my understanding, none of the passages detailing the 'law of the land' things are obligatory. If I remember correctly there is a quote that prefaces all these commands that states something like 'if you have a better way, use that'.

correcting your quote...

Quote:

"Hi. I'm gandalf, and i'm a moslem. But the tenets and doctrines and laws of mainstream ISLAM do not have any lawful authority over me and mine."

...is actually spot on - as long as you interpret 'lawful authority' as my personal commitment to my personal obligations to God as specified in Islamic law (praying, fasting, forgiveness etc) - and not literally the 'law of the land' that must be imposed over all of society.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49371 At my desk.	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #58 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:12pm Quote: Islam should be a purely personal journey, it has no place in the laws of the land IMO. Muhammed obviously didn't think so.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #59 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:15pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:07pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:55pm:

Yes.

Great. An answer!!! Remarkable.

How about you now back it up with some hard and direct evidence.

No, FD has a far better plan - he'll spend the next 20 pages refusing to qualify that bizarre answer, instead cryptically pointing me to other things he's said or that all that needs to be said has been said already - and all the while insisting till he's blue in the face that he's been crystal clear in his explanation.

Thats the exact routine he went through when I asked him to justify stating as fact that government school funds went to terrorists.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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