Australian Politics Forum - DFAT funding Islamic propaganda

polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #60 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:18pm

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:12pm:

Quote:

Islam should be a purely personal journey, it has no place in the laws of the land IMO.

Muhammed obviously didn't think so.

Muhammad was a head of state. Creating laws of the land kinda comes with the job description. Doesn't mean those laws can't be separated from actual Islamic law though. And yes, I appreciate that many muslims have difficulty accepting this too.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49380 At my desk.	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #61 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:20pm So when a head of state gets told by an angel to kill 800 innocent people, that is not blurring the lines between religion and state?
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Aussie

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #62 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:31pm

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:20pm:

So when a head of state gets told by an angel to kill 800 innocent people, that is not blurring the lines between religion and state?

Get's told by a what? Why do you expect anyone to agree that anyone was told by a holy pixie what they must do. Do you really believe that crap, Effendi?

'God made me do it,' you reckon actually works these days?

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Yadda

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #63 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:09pm:

Islam should be a purely personal journey, it has no place in the laws of the land IMO.

More than 90% of the Quran is dedicated to emphasising the personal/spiritual aspects and obligations for muslims in their worship.

And to my understanding, none of the passages detailing the 'law of the land' things are obligatory.

If I remember correctly there is a quote that prefaces all these commands that states something like

'if you have a better way, use that'.

No gandalf, that text was on the subject of how moslems could take to themselves honest religious authority, and piety, in breaking a solemn covenant that the had made with another, before Allah.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295407319/0#0
Quote:

From the Koran, Hadith;

Allah told Mohammed, it is OK to not fulfil the oaths you make.
i.e. If you find something better, you are free to go, and make a better deal, and abandon your first oath.

"Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise."
Koran 66:2

"The Prophet said, "If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath."."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #007.067.427
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.078.618
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.709
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.710
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.712
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #008.079.715

"expiate my oath", means an obligation to Allah of penance [Kaffara], e.g. fasting for three days, or to clothe or feed poor people.

.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:09pm:

correcting your quote...

Quote:

"Hi. I'm gandalf, and i'm a moslem. But the tenets and doctrines and laws of mainstream ISLAM do not have any lawful authority over me and mine."

...is actually spot on - as long as you interpret 'lawful authority' as my personal commitment to my personal obligations to God as specified in Islamic law (praying, fasting, forgiveness etc) -

and not literally the

'law of the land' that must be imposed over all of society.

I do not believe, that YOU believe that gandalf.

To the moslem, there is only one law that has authority over man, ISLAMIC law.

As a moslem, you know that.

Google;

Erdogan, "Sovereignty Belongs Unconditionally and Always To Allah"

Google;

Erdogan, "One Cannot Be a Muslim, and Secular"

gandalf,

As a moslem, you must know that the ISLAMIC religious advice to the moslem, living within a secular jurisdiction is that;

"The moslem should obey the laws of the land in which they are resident,
so long as the local secular laws are not in conflict with Allah's law."

Google it, you will find that that, is the authoritative ISLAMIC religious advice given to all moslems, who live within any secular nation.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #64 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:39pm

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:20pm:

So when a head of state gets told by an angel to kill 800 innocent people, that is not blurring the lines between religion and state?

The alleged banu Qurayza massacre almost certainly didn't happen - have I mentioned that before?

Besides, heads of state tend to judge harshly people who declare war against them - regardless of their religion.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #65 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:40pm

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

You do personally use racist propaganda in support of genocide. Islam compels you to. If you were not a Muslim you would feel shame in what you posted here.

That's true, G. You should stop promoting the genocide of decent white people everywhere.

You stop being so racist. We're actually quite nice once you get to know us.

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Karnal

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #66 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:42pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:07pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:55pm:

Yes.

Great. An answer!!! Remarkable.

How about you now back it up with some hard and direct evidence.

But Aussue, FD already provided this.

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

She doesn't seem like the trade negotiator type. She seems more like the Islamic propagandist type. Hence DFAT covering up the details.

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« Last Edit: Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:49pm by Karnal »

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polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #67 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:46pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:42pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

She doesn't seem like the trade negotiator type. She seems more like the Islamic propagandist type. Hence DFAT covering up the details.

I must admit I didn't necessarily think of DFAT as secret agents for the Islamic jihadists - but now FD mentions it, I honestly don't know how I could have missed it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Yadda

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #68 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:18pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:12pm:

Quote:

Islam should be a purely personal journey, it has no place in the laws of the land IMO.

Muhammed obviously didn't think so.

Muhammad was a head of state. Creating laws of the land kinda comes with the job description.

[It] Doesn't mean those laws can't be separated from actual Islamic law though.

And yes, I appreciate that many muslims have difficulty accepting this too.

LOL

Google;

Erdogan, "Sovereignty Belongs Unconditionally and Always To Allah"

Google;

Erdogan, "One Cannot Be a Muslim, and Secular"

Quote:

"The Koran is our constitution,

the Prophet is our leader,

jihad is our path

and death in the name of Allah is our goal."

Google

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #69 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:57pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:46pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:42pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

She doesn't seem like the trade negotiator type. She seems more like the Islamic propagandist type. Hence DFAT covering up the details.

I must admit I didn't necessarily think of DFAT as secret agents for the Islamic jihadists - but now FD mentions it, I honestly don't know how I could have missed it.

Exactly. They're quite cunning, you know. It's only when FD points these things out that you realize they were covering it up all along.

Most sinister and diabolical of course, but that's Islam and its apologists for you.

Can you imagine? Here's the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade promoting Islam in the Middle East. Have you ever heard of anything more spinelessly apologetic than that?

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freediver

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #70 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:00pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:39pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:20pm:

So when a head of state gets told by an angel to kill 800 innocent people, that is not blurring the lines between religion and state?

The alleged banu Qurayza massacre almost certainly didn't happen - have I mentioned that before?

Besides, heads of state tend to judge harshly people who declare war against them - regardless of their religion.

Yes Gandalf, that is why we have these genocides so often.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #71 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:00pm Karnal wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:57pm: Here's the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade promoting Islam in the Middle East. exactly. Don't worry, once FD gets the details he'll sure to explain how that makes sense.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49380 At my desk.	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #72 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:03pm polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 11:45am: Do you reckon there might be sound economic reasons to promote Australia to the Middle East that DFAT (you know the guys who are actually responsible for overseas trade and stuff like that) are aware of? How many trade deals do you think she negotiated Gandalf?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda
Reply #73 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:03pm

FD, you've run away from this idiotic claim faster than you normally do.

Perhaps it slipped your mind...

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:45pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 3:28pm:

Quote:
Presumably there is some point to that quote that is relevant to the accusation in the thread title? I suppose Yasminn was paid by DFAT to go on Q&A and promote 'Islamic propaganda'?

Yes.

Yes she was paid by DFAT to go on Q&A to promote Islamic propaganda? Could you expand on that so we're crystal clear on what new levels of absurdity you have now reached?

I wouldn't want you to accuse me of misquoting you while I spend the next 12 months ridiculing you for this.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49380 At my desk.	Re: DFAT funding Islamic propaganda Reply #74 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:06pm She was paid to tour the middle east Gandalf.
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