Australian Politics Forum - And take the towel with you

Karnal

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #30 - Feb 20^th, 2017 at 7:31pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 5:19pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 2:32pm:

I quite like this woman, and I admire her for sticking her neck out and stating her piece whilst knowing she will attract many detractors.

Credit to you for saying that Herbie. Smiley

And that is what the teachings of Islam can add to our society - like the stance of Muhammed Ali.

Jihad, innit.

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Karnal

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #31 - Feb 20^th, 2017 at 7:35pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 5:24pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 5:19pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 2:32pm:

I quite like this woman, and I admire her for sticking her neck out and stating her piece whilst knowing she will attract many detractors.

Credit to you for saying that Herbie. Smiley

Have I EVER said anything less than what's fair, reasonable, and sensitive to other people's feelings despite the fact I might strongly disagree with them? Roll Eyes

Never. You've always stood up for people who say what they truly think.

Well, almost always.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #32 - Feb 20^th, 2017 at 8:04pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 7:35pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 5:24pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 5:19pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 2:32pm:

I quite like this woman, and I admire her for sticking her neck out and stating her piece whilst knowing she will attract many detractors.

Credit to you for saying that Herbie. Smiley

Have I EVER said anything less than what's fair, reasonable, and sensitive to other people's feelings despite the fact I might strongly disagree with them? Roll Eyes

Never. You've always stood up for people who say what they truly think.

Well, almost always.

The UK's Daily Mail is a case in point. They're not afraid to print the stories the others reject for fear of another 'Je Suis Charlie'.

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rhino

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #33 - Feb 20^th, 2017 at 8:12pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 5:16pm:

rhino wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 2:20pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 12:49pm:

rhino wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 12:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 11:55am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 7:24am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 6:44am:

rhino wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 1:11am:

A right-wing group is campaigning against the Sudanese-born writer for telling the Q&A program last week her Sharia meant she was obliged to obey Australian law.

Outrageous.

It sure is.

'Sharia' is discriminatory against women in that if you should happen to shake a woman's hand as is the custom in the West, you may not be able to control the instantaneous impulse to rape this loose and profligate bitch-dog Unbeliever.

link

But Herb are you outraged at this uppity muslim asserting that she is obligated by her religion to obey Australian law?

And yet supports Sharia law, contradiction dont you think?

No contradiction at all, and at the risk of repeating myself, I'll let Ruby explain the point - agian...

Quote:

It is clear to me that when Lambie talks of "Sharia law" she is referring to the regressive dogma enforced in the criminal codes of some Muslim-majority countries, while to liberal Muslims like Abdel-Magied, Sharia is about private, personal ethics.

It shouldn't be that difficult to make a distinction between the two and it could be as simple as qualifying the difference between criminal Sharia law, or hudud, and the private moral code.

As long as we fail to make this simple but vital distinction, Muslims will continue to be demonised and the real issue will continue to be missed.

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/opinion/why-its-not-enough-to-cou...

Yes, we know that she is claiming that but that is not Sharia law in reality is it? You cannot say that in practise Sharia law allows individuals to practise their own version of it.

Why can't I say? Because you see a few boof heads claiming that on TV - and because those few take up all the media coverage of muslims?

I suspect that like Lambie, this is actually the first time you've heard of a sharia law that doesn't involve beheadings and amputations - and just like Lambie, you dismiss it out of hand. Why? Well thats not really clear. There is certainly no legitimate reason. But whatever the reason, it leads you to unfairly default to accusing her and others who argue the same, as liars, hypocrites etc.

As for your question about sharia law not allowing freedom of thought. Easily refuted:

there is no compulsion in religion - Quran 2:256

The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve - Quran 18:29

Nice deflection. However, name one area which practises Sharia law which allows individual interpretations and practise.

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Karnal

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #34 - Feb 20^th, 2017 at 8:31pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 8:04pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 7:35pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 5:24pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 5:19pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 2:32pm:

I quite like this woman, and I admire her for sticking her neck out and stating her piece whilst knowing she will attract many detractors.

Credit to you for saying that Herbie. Smiley

Have I EVER said anything less than what's fair, reasonable, and sensitive to other people's feelings despite the fact I might strongly disagree with them? Roll Eyes

Never. You've always stood up for people who say what they truly think.

Well, almost always.

The UK's Daily Mail is a case in point. They're not afraid to print the stories the others reject for fear of another 'Je Suis Charlie'.

As is the Koran. You've always stood up for Australians of Anglo anscestry to learn that, no?

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #35 - Feb 21^st, 2017 at 5:13am

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 11:55am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 7:24am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 6:44am:

rhino wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 1:11am:

A right-wing group is campaigning against the Sudanese-born writer for telling the Q&A program last week her Sharia meant she was obliged to obey Australian law.

Outrageous.

It sure is.

'Sharia' is discriminatory against women in that if you should happen to shake a woman's hand as is the custom in the West, you may not be able to control the instantaneous impulse to rape this loose and profligate bitch-dog Unbeliever.

link

But Herb are you outraged at this uppity muslim asserting that she is obligated by her religion to obey Australian law?

I'm obliged to obey Australian law too, but this isn't because my behaviour is driven by some mumbo jumbo but because of my understanding of morals based on upbringing, my genetically make up and my understanding of science.

As such, while I obey I also question laws. Does sharia allow Muslims to question the laws of the land they live in? And if so, what do they use to judge the worthiness of said laws?

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #36 - Feb 21^st, 2017 at 6:42am

rhino wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 8:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 5:16pm:

rhino wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 2:20pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 12:49pm:

rhino wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 12:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 11:55am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 7:24am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 6:44am:

rhino wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 1:11am:

A right-wing group is campaigning against the Sudanese-born writer for telling the Q&A program last week her Sharia meant she was obliged to obey Australian law.

Outrageous.

It sure is.

'Sharia' is discriminatory against women in that if you should happen to shake a woman's hand as is the custom in the West, you may not be able to control the instantaneous impulse to rape this loose and profligate bitch-dog Unbeliever.

link

But Herb are you outraged at this uppity muslim asserting that she is obligated by her religion to obey Australian law?

And yet supports Sharia law, contradiction dont you think?

No contradiction at all, and at the risk of repeating myself, I'll let Ruby explain the point - agian...

Quote:

It is clear to me that when Lambie talks of "Sharia law" she is referring to the regressive dogma enforced in the criminal codes of some Muslim-majority countries, while to liberal Muslims like Abdel-Magied, Sharia is about private, personal ethics.

It shouldn't be that difficult to make a distinction between the two and it could be as simple as qualifying the difference between criminal Sharia law, or hudud, and the private moral code.

As long as we fail to make this simple but vital distinction, Muslims will continue to be demonised and the real issue will continue to be missed.

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/opinion/why-its-not-enough-to-cou...

Yes, we know that she is claiming that but that is not Sharia law in reality is it? You cannot say that in practise Sharia law allows individuals to practise their own version of it.

Why can't I say? Because you see a few boof heads claiming that on TV - and because those few take up all the media coverage of muslims?

I suspect that like Lambie, this is actually the first time you've heard of a sharia law that doesn't involve beheadings and amputations - and just like Lambie, you dismiss it out of hand. Why? Well thats not really clear. There is certainly no legitimate reason. But whatever the reason, it leads you to unfairly default to accusing her and others who argue the same, as liars, hypocrites etc.

As for your question about sharia law not allowing freedom of thought. Easily refuted:

there is no compulsion in religion - Quran 2:256

The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve - Quran 18:29

Nice deflection. However, name one area which practises Sharia law which allows individual interpretations and practise.

In the practices of the majority of muslims in Australia - for a start.

Yes thats right, sharia law is flourishing in Australia. Think about it.

to liberal Muslims like Abdel-Magied, Sharia is about private, personal ethics.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #37 - Feb 21^st, 2017 at 6:48am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 21^st, 2017 at 5:13am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 11:55am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 7:24am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 6:44am:

rhino wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 1:11am:

A right-wing group is campaigning against the Sudanese-born writer for telling the Q&A program last week her Sharia meant she was obliged to obey Australian law.

Outrageous.

It sure is.

'Sharia' is discriminatory against women in that if you should happen to shake a woman's hand as is the custom in the West, you may not be able to control the instantaneous impulse to rape this loose and profligate bitch-dog Unbeliever.

link

But Herb are you outraged at this uppity muslim asserting that she is obligated by her religion to obey Australian law?

I'm obliged to obey Australian law too, but this isn't because my behaviour is driven by some mumbo jumbo but because of my understanding of morals based on upbringing, my genetically make up and my understanding of science.

As such, while I obey I also question laws. Does sharia allow Muslims to question the laws of the land they live in? And if so, what do they use to judge the worthiness of said laws?

Flawed logic alevine.

You're desperately searching for sneaky little loopholes where none need exist.

Just another example of this mentality that muslims are guilty by default and must prove their innocence.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #38 - Feb 21^st, 2017 at 7:19am

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 21^st, 2017 at 6:48am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 21^st, 2017 at 5:13am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 11:55am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 7:24am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 6:44am:

rhino wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 1:11am:

A right-wing group is campaigning against the Sudanese-born writer for telling the Q&A program last week her Sharia meant she was obliged to obey Australian law.

Outrageous.

It sure is.

'Sharia' is discriminatory against women in that if you should happen to shake a woman's hand as is the custom in the West, you may not be able to control the instantaneous impulse to rape this loose and profligate bitch-dog Unbeliever.

link

But Herb are you outraged at this uppity muslim asserting that she is obligated by her religion to obey Australian law?

I'm obliged to obey Australian law too, but this isn't because my behaviour is driven by some mumbo jumbo but because of my understanding of morals based on upbringing, my genetically make up and my understanding of science.

As such, while I obey I also question laws. Does sharia allow Muslims to question the laws of the land they live in? And if so, what do they use to judge the worthiness of said laws?

Flawed logic alevine.

You're desperately searching for sneaky little loopholes where none need exist.

Just another example of this mentality that muslims are guilty by default and must prove their innocence.

How is it flawed logic, Gandalf? I'm asking where our behaviours and opinions come from. And I'm not at all blaming all Muslims. I'm simply asking how many conservative Muslims we must accept, who will have their morals and opinions based on their interpretations of their lovely little book and crazy ideology. It's not about obeying the law. It's about the opinion of whether the law is morally right or not.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #39 - Feb 21^st, 2017 at 8:31am

Alevine heaven forbid that a muslim follows a version of Islam that is logical and consistent with your "understanding of morals based on upbringing, my genetically make up and my understanding of science" - right? The insinuation I'm getting from you is that you have common sense, logic and sound morals on the one hand - and a 'lovely little book' that necessarily promotes 'mumbo jumbo' and 'crazy ideology' on the other - and never the twain shall meet. And *IF* by some miracle some of that mumbo jumbo just happens to promote something that is in line with your sound non-religious morals - then thats just pot luck, which has nothing to do with the religion standing for any values that are the same as yours.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Grendel

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #40 - Feb 21^st, 2017 at 8:44am

Grendel wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 3:35pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 2:28pm:

moses wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 2:24pm:

Quote:

The real issue is: What are muslims going to do about those segments of sharia law which can only be described as utterly degenerate retardation, which has no place in a modern civilized 21st century world?

Quote:

They'll probably do what all the Muslims I know are doing right now - ignoring them.

Well kiss a black rock and call me the moon god allah.

I wonder what causes all the: beheading, stoning, amputations, burning them alive, jihadists, honour killings, female genital mutilation, forced child marriage, blaming then killing the female who has been raped, killing apostates, killing the homosexuals, killing the blasphemers, etc. etc. etc.?

That's caused by the small minority who don't ignore "those segments of sharia law which can only be described as utterly degenerate retardation, which has no place in a modern civilized 21st century world ".

There are bad Muslims, just as there are bad Christians, Buddhists, and atheists.

If your brain wasn't being rotted away by an irrational fear & hatred of all things 'different', you would realise this.

Oh so there are BAD MUSLIMS eh... you better tell bwian. Those BAD MUSLIMS follow SHARIA to the letter eh?

Hmmm... utterly degenerate retardation has no place in a modern civilised world eh... careful... I feel a Fatwah coming on for you Gweggy. Cheesy

Well Gandalf according to Gweggy there are BAD MUSLIMS.... do you think there are BAD MUSLIMS? If so how do you identify these BAD MUSLIMS.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #41 - Feb 21^st, 2017 at 9:46am

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 21^st, 2017 at 8:31am:

Alevine heaven forbid that a muslim follows a version of Islam that is logical and consistent with your "understanding of morals based on upbringing, my genetically make up and my understanding of science" - right? The insinuation I'm getting from you is that you have common sense, logic and sound morals on the one hand - and a 'lovely little book' that necessarily promotes 'mumbo jumbo' and 'crazy ideology' on the other - and never the twain shall meet. And *IF* by some miracle some of that mumbo jumbo just happens to promote something that is in line with your sound non-religious morals - then thats just pot luck, which has nothing to do with the religion standing for any values that are the same as yours.

As typical with you Gandalf you misunderstand the point Sad

. Never did I say my morals are "sound" (but yes, I do think it's more reasonable to seek understanding from science rather than a mumbo jumbo book), I'm simply saying how I obtain my understanding of what is morally right, in comparison to how a conservative Muslim would obtain their understanding of what is morally right, and given the evidence we have of what that means we can easily determine that despite the said conservative Muslim "obeying" western law, it doesn't mean they won't seek to change it at the first opportunity. In which case I again ask, how many conservative Muslims are we comfortable with when we know the outcomes in Islamic states to date? As typical you and similar advocates are ignorant to what most people are actually concerned with, and instead look to smear and strawman your way out of what the real issues are. Never mind. It's nothing new.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95441 Gender:	Re: And take the towel with you Reply #42 - Feb 21^st, 2017 at 10:42am Typical.
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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: And take the towel with you Reply #43 - Feb 21^st, 2017 at 10:43am polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 21^st, 2017 at 6:42am: to liberal Muslims like Abdel-Magied, Sharia is about private, personal ethics. There's no such entity as 'private, personal ethics'. Ethics guides behaviour, and behaviour is for the most part a social phenomenon that effects everybody in the community.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: And take the towel with you
Reply #44 - Feb 21^st, 2017 at 10:44am

Grendel wrote on Feb 21^st, 2017 at 8:44am:

Grendel wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 3:35pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 2:28pm:

moses wrote on Feb 20^th, 2017 at 2:24pm:

Quote:

The real issue is: What are muslims going to do about those segments of sharia law which can only be described as utterly degenerate retardation, which has no place in a modern civilized 21st century world?

Quote:

They'll probably do what all the Muslims I know are doing right now - ignoring them.

Well kiss a black rock and call me the moon god allah.

I wonder what causes all the: beheading, stoning, amputations, burning them alive, jihadists, honour killings, female genital mutilation, forced child marriage, blaming then killing the female who has been raped, killing apostates, killing the homosexuals, killing the blasphemers, etc. etc. etc.?

That's caused by the small minority who don't ignore "those segments of sharia law which can only be described as utterly degenerate retardation, which has no place in a modern civilized 21st century world ".

There are bad Muslims, just as there are bad Christians, Buddhists, and atheists.

If your brain wasn't being rotted away by an irrational fear & hatred of all things 'different', you would realise this.

Oh so there are BAD MUSLIMS eh... you better tell bwian. Those BAD MUSLIMS follow SHARIA to the letter eh?

Hmmm... utterly degenerate retardation has no place in a modern civilised world eh... careful... I feel a Fatwah coming on for you Gweggy. Cheesy

Well Gandalf according to Gweggy there are BAD MUSLIMS.... do you think there are BAD MUSLIMS? If so how do you identify these BAD MUSLIMS.

They'd be the ones doing bad things, you clueless buffoon.

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