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Aboriginals adapted (Read 46745 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #285 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:30pm
 
Emma wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 2:52am:
Is BR really Soren.?



Good God, no!  Never!  Emma, you should be ashamed for even thinking that!   Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #286 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:31pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 4:27pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 6:09pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 12:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 12:27am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 7th, 2017 at 11:39pm:
it's more correct to describe christianty as a jewish religion


It's foundations were definitely Jewish, CW.  However, it has developed since then into something unique in it's hypocrisy and hatred.   Roll Eyes


there's nothing unique about hypocrisy and hatred. it's everywhere.

st paul is often attributed to where christianity went wrong. he turned it from a personal, self-reforming doctrine, into one where morality should be legislated by the church. jesus was a bit of dreamer though to think everyone could 'turn the other cheek' etc. far too optimistic given the way of men and women.



Oh, St.Paul has a lot to answer for in his misogny and his support for slavery.   Definitely.   Roll Eyes


like the arab slave traders and their misogyny?


Like some?  Yes, not all though.  Tsk, tsk.    Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #287 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:33pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 4:41pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 4:36pm:
Gordon wrote on Feb 21st, 2017 at 1:14pm:
So we're extolling the virtues of Aboriginals because they managed to pick up bits of broken glass and realised they were sharp and they could cut things with them.


The glass shows that Aboriginal people were here and were utilising new materials, changing their technology, their technique of making artifacts


Hang on what, new materials? Oh yeah, new materials to Aboriginals Smiley

I'd be impressed if they found pieces of glass, ground them to precision, put them inside a didgeridoo and used their brand new high power telescope to discover a new moon of Jupiter.   Cheesy

Finding a piece of glass on the ground and using it to cut things, I'd be impressed if a bonobo did that. Not a human.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-21/artefacts-show-coexistence-between-aborigi...


If want a reasonableness explanation on why different societies be evolved differently, read Jared diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel. This attributes environmental factors to urbanisation, writing and division of labour.


that book is ok, but its obsession with ruling out biology and/or genetics does it no favours.


Tsk, tsk, a biological determinist, CW?  Really?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #288 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:36pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 5:50pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 6:06pm:
Emma wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:24am:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 12:27am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 7th, 2017 at 11:39pm:
it's more correct to describe christianty as a jewish religion


It's foundations were definitely Jewish, CW.  However, it has developed since then into something unique in it's hypocrisy and hatred.   Roll Eyes


Baldly, that is true. But the same observations can be made of ALL other religions.


Yep, sure can.  It's interesting how much of a free ride Christianity gets in these fora.   Islam is the only religion that gets really criticised while Christianity gets overlooked.   I wonder why?  Islamophobia perhaps?   Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes



Because Muslims are murdering people in the name of Islam. It could not possibly have escaped even your negligible mind.


And what about the Christians who murder people in the name of their God, Soren?  Should we ignore them as well?   What about the other religious groups, such as Buddhists or Hindus?   Tsk, tsk, your Islamophobia is showing again.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #289 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:37pm
 
Valkie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 6:00pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 5:50pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 6:06pm:
Emma wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 2:24am:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 12:27am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 7th, 2017 at 11:39pm:
it's more correct to describe christianty as a jewish religion


It's foundations were definitely Jewish, CW.  However, it has developed since then into something unique in it's hypocrisy and hatred.   Roll Eyes


Baldly, that is true. But the same observations can be made of ALL other religions.


Yep, sure can.  It's interesting how much of a free ride Christianity gets in these fora.   Islam is the only religion that gets really criticised while Christianity gets overlooked.   I wonder why?  Islamophobia perhaps?   Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes



Because Muslims are murdering people in the name of Islam. It could not possibly have escaped even your negligible mind.


The Muslim plants in this forum are only here to distract, divert and disrupt any discussion that exposes the truth about this disgusting,barbaric and primitive CULT


Your Islamophobia is showing again, Valkie.  Stop it or you'll go blind!  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #290 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:40pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:32pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 7:18pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 5:37pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 4:46pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 4:41pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 4:36pm:
Gordon wrote on Feb 21st, 2017 at 1:14pm:
So we're extolling the virtues of Aboriginals because they managed to pick up bits of broken glass and realised they were sharp and they could cut things with them.


The glass shows that Aboriginal people were here and were utilising new materials, changing their technology, their technique of making artifacts


Hang on what, new materials? Oh yeah, new materials to Aboriginals Smiley

I'd be impressed if they found pieces of glass, ground them to precision, put them inside a didgeridoo and used their brand new high power telescope to discover a new moon of Jupiter.   Cheesy

Finding a piece of glass on the ground and using it to cut things, I'd be impressed if a bonobo did that. Not a human.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-21/artefacts-show-coexistence-between-aborigi...


If want a reasonableness explanation on why different societies be evolved differently, read Jared diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel. This attributes environmental factors to urbanisation, writing and division of labour.


that book is ok, but its obsession with ruling out biology and/or genetics does it no favours.


Ooh. You're treading on controversial ground here. Biology and genetics have NOTHING to do with the development of societies. This is an established fact. Such theories are considered pseudo-science.


biology always plays a part. removing biology from the equation equates to nothing of us existing at all. environments don't create bodies. what's really occurring is a constant interaction of the body with its environment, and vice-versa, whereby each affects the other. it's not either/or. it's and/with.


The environment affects how we behave. For e.g. an instrumental factor in the development of early urbanization was a food surplus. The agricultural revolution, as a result of the domestication of certain animals which did not exist on the Australian continent, led to a greater productive capacity in agriculture. The food surplus then led to a division of labour, and urbanization, which then led to writing, etc.

The Australia and American continents didn't have cattle. African had cattle but the tropical diseases affected the cattle so much that they were hardly effective. This prevented the Africans from having the capacity to create a food surplus and thereafter urbanized societies.


so how did the aztecs, maya and incas develop farming, crops, bridges, roads, urbanization, pyramids etc? i don't deny the environment plays a part, often a very big part, but you don't even have humans without biology. forget the far-leftists and their screeching of 'biology = nazism'. think about it objectively.


They developed farming, crops, bridges, roads, urbanisation, pyramids, and so on because they were situated in the right place at the right time when such things could be developed, CW.   Why did the British develop stone circles?  Why did the Indian civilisations develop crops?  Why did the Asians develop music?  Nothing to do with biology, all to do with circumstances.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #291 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:43pm
 
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
Aboriginal culture is one of the least developed on earth.


Define how a "culture" "develops", Gordon.   Indigenous culture was as developed, if not more so than any other stone-age group on Earth.   They had their creation myths, they had their ceremonies and dances.   Exactly as did every other stone-age culture.  Why do you assume that they had to be something other than what they were?

Quote:
Why is so hard to accept this while at the same time accepting they are people who deserve to have their hopes and dreams fulfilled and live with dignity like everyone else?  Why do we needs this ridiculous charade to pretend they are something they are not.


They are people who deserve to develop themselves, Gordon.  They don't need you continually sneering at them for not being what you want them to be.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #292 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 11:40pm
 
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:02pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:50pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:45pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
Aboriginal culture is one of the least developed on earth.

Why is so hard to accept this while at the same time accepting they are people who deserve to have their hopes and dreams fulfilled and live with dignity like everyone else?  Why do we needs this ridiculous charade to pretend they are something they are not.


I agree that there are different levels of complexity. The Indigenous Peoples of Australia had less complex civilization than others. We must also recognize that the the culture has been continuous for around 40,000 years, which is something that other civilizations haven't achieved.


Because of isolation, which is now their downfall.
Cultures that mixed adapted and improved. 
The world would be a dull place if we'd never advanced further than that of aboriginals



Isolation played a role. The point that you need to understand is that there was nothing more that they could do. The conditions didn't exist for them to become more complex.


Yes, I accept their culture is a result of geography and environment. I don't view them as inferior humanoids but I view their culture as inferior.   


Inferior is the wrong word. That they were able to live sustainably for tens of thousand of years is in some sense superior. I would say that their culture is different. Put it this way, I would prefer indigenous culture to North Korean culture, or to some other cultures in the world.


No,  I'd characterise them as the most basic examples of human society.

All humans mastered their environments. The prehistoric Britons would have also known the use of every last plant and animal available to them. Just look at the incredible achievements of other cultures above survival,  then look at the aboriginals. Not inferior peole, inferior culture.


We pretty much agree on the same thing; I just think we differ on the semantics. I prefer to use words like 'social institutions' and 'ideas' rather than 'culture'. The latter is too broad, whilst the former are more specific and more neutral in tone. "Some social institutions are better than others; some ideas are better than ideas."
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #293 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 11:44pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:40pm:
[

They developed farming, crops, bridges, roads, urbanisation, pyramids, and so on because they were situated in the right place at the right time when such things could be developed, CW.   Why did the British develop stone circles?  Why did the Indian civilisations develop crops?  Why did the Asians develop music?  Nothing to do with biology, all to do with circumstances.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Aboriginals are racially unique and science supports this. You really are a slow learner Brian,. Arguing against racism and arguing against racial differences are 2 different things. There is no argument that Aboriginals are not racially unique and you just make yourself look under educated by arguing the opposite.
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #294 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:12am
 
rhino wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 11:44pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:40pm:
[

They developed farming, crops, bridges, roads, urbanisation, pyramids, and so on because they were situated in the right place at the right time when such things could be developed, CW.   Why did the British develop stone circles?  Why did the Indian civilisations develop crops?  Why did the Asians develop music?  Nothing to do with biology, all to do with circumstances.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Aboriginals are racially unique and science supports this. You really are a slow learner Brian,. Arguing against racism and arguing against racial differences are 2 different things. There is no argument that Aboriginals are not racially unique and you just make yourself look under educated by arguing the opposite.


Show us the Genetic proof that they are "unique", Rhino.  I've challenged you to do that in the past and you've failed dismally.    Roll Eyes
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #295 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 3:10am
 


The environment affects how we behave. For e.g. an instrumental factor in the development of early urbanization was a food surplus. The agricultural revolution, as a result of the domestication of certain animals which did not exist on the Australian continent, led to a greater productive capacity in agriculture. The food surplus then led to a division of labour, and urbanization, which then led to writing, etc.

The Australia and American continents didn't have cattle. African had cattle but the tropical diseases affected the cattle so much that they were hardly effective. This prevented the Africans from having the capacity to create a food surplus and thereafter urbanized societies. [/quote]

so how did the aztecs, maya and incas develop farming, crops, bridges, roads, urbanization, pyramids etc? i don't deny the environment plays a part, often a very big part, but you don't even have humans without biology. forget the far-leftists and their screeching of 'biology = nazism'. think about it objectively.
[/quote]

They developed farming, crops, bridges, roads, urbanisation, pyramids, and so on because they were situated in the right place at the right time when such things could be developed, CW.   Why did the British develop stone circles?  Why did the Indian civilisations develop crops?  Why did the Asians develop music?  Nothing to do with biology, all to do with circumstances.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes [/quote]

Interesting to compare domestication of animals across cultures. In South America, they may not have had critters of the bovine variety, but they certainly had Llamas for carrying goods, lets not forget.
In Australia..?  there were no animals that could fill that role. The aboriginal people have managed to survive for tens of thousands of years in an environment we could not have lived in. What the basic simplicity of their lives meant, before the white man, was that their energies were on a whole other level.
I think that is why the euros are so hard on the aboriginal people.

Why?  Because, in the essence of life, the aboriginals of Australia have / had achieved a singular near perfect symbiosis with their environment. So.. in Australia..? the aboriginals made a real enduring culture, in the toughest of circumstances.

We are in fact in awe of the realities and richness of their supposedly simple lives.
We have basically destroyed their world, but they still continue.
Good on them.. they show much more of the 'right stuff' than any jerk on a keyboard. 



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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #296 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 5:50am
 
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:43pm:
There are different degrees of complexity. You're also completely disregarding social institutions and structures. Biology only really plays a role on an individual level, not a societal level.


i haven't started on institutions and structures yet. one of my pet interests is understanding why 400 years ago europe strove toward becoming the most creative continent the world has ever seen. reducing it to 'food surpluses' and urbanization will only get you so far. there was a flowering of the sciences - hard and soft - at this time. this flowering was a cross between rediscovering the texts and ideas of antiquity and a strong desire to create, innovate and understand the world.
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #297 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 5:57am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:33pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 4:41pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 4:36pm:
Gordon wrote on Feb 21st, 2017 at 1:14pm:
So we're extolling the virtues of Aboriginals because they managed to pick up bits of broken glass and realised they were sharp and they could cut things with them.


The glass shows that Aboriginal people were here and were utilising new materials, changing their technology, their technique of making artifacts


Hang on what, new materials? Oh yeah, new materials to Aboriginals Smiley

I'd be impressed if they found pieces of glass, ground them to precision, put them inside a didgeridoo and used their brand new high power telescope to discover a new moon of Jupiter.   Cheesy

Finding a piece of glass on the ground and using it to cut things, I'd be impressed if a bonobo did that. Not a human.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-21/artefacts-show-coexistence-between-aborigi...


If want a reasonableness explanation on why different societies be evolved differently, read Jared diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel. This attributes environmental factors to urbanisation, writing and division of labour.


that book is ok, but its obsession with ruling out biology and/or genetics does it no favours.


Tsk, tsk, a biological determinist, CW?  Really?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


if you follow the discussion rather than interjecting like a twit then you'd see that is not the case.
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #298 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 6:02am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:40pm:
[quote author=Time link=1487646898/276#276 date=1489055568]

They developed farming, crops, bridges, roads, urbanisation, pyramids, and so on because they were situated in the right place at the right time when such things could be developed, CW.   Why did the British develop stone circles?  Why did the Indian civilisations develop crops?  Why did the Asians develop music?  Nothing to do with biology, all to do with circumstances.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


biology always plays a part - to what degree is the question. to repeat, without biology there are no humans. the environment doesn't create human beings out of thin air.
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #299 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 3:32pm
 
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 11:40pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:02pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:50pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:45pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
Aboriginal culture is one of the least developed on earth.

Why is so hard to accept this while at the same time accepting they are people who deserve to have their hopes and dreams fulfilled and live with dignity like everyone else?  Why do we needs this ridiculous charade to pretend they are something they are not.


I agree that there are different levels of complexity. The Indigenous Peoples of Australia had less complex civilization than others. We must also recognize that the the culture has been continuous for around 40,000 years, which is something that other civilizations haven't achieved.


Because of isolation, which is now their downfall.
Cultures that mixed adapted and improved. 
The world would be a dull place if we'd never advanced further than that of aboriginals



Isolation played a role. The point that you need to understand is that there was nothing more that they could do. The conditions didn't exist for them to become more complex.


Yes, I accept their culture is a result of geography and environment. I don't view them as inferior humanoids but I view their culture as inferior.   


Inferior is the wrong word. That they were able to live sustainably for tens of thousand of years is in some sense superior. I would say that their culture is different. Put it this way, I would prefer indigenous culture to North Korean culture, or to some other cultures in the world.


No,  I'd characterise them as the most basic examples of human society.

All humans mastered their environments. The prehistoric Britons would have also known the use of every last plant and animal available to them. Just look at the incredible achievements of other cultures above survival,  then look at the aboriginals. Not inferior peole, inferior culture.


We pretty much agree on the same thing; I just think we differ on the semantics. I prefer to use words like 'social institutions' and 'ideas' rather than 'culture'. The latter is too broad, whilst the former are more specific and more neutral in tone. "Some social institutions are better than others; some ideas are better than ideas."


Yes we both agree that fundamentally human hardware is not a factor.

The thing I find particular funny is the way their culture is elevated to what it simply isn't. 

Fish traps are described as aquaculture.
Trading with the guys over the hill is called export.
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