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Aboriginals adapted (Read 46773 times)
mothra
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #300 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 3:36pm  
Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 11:40pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:02pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:50pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:45pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
Aboriginal culture is one of the least developed on earth.

Why is so hard to accept this while at the same time accepting they are people who deserve to have their hopes and dreams fulfilled and live with dignity like everyone else?  Why do we needs this ridiculous charade to pretend they are something they are not.


I agree that there are different levels of complexity. The Indigenous Peoples of Australia had less complex civilization than others. We must also recognize that the the culture has been continuous for around 40,000 years, which is something that other civilizations haven't achieved.


Because of isolation, which is now their downfall.
Cultures that mixed adapted and improved. 
The world would be a dull place if we'd never advanced further than that of aboriginals



Isolation played a role. The point that you need to understand is that there was nothing more that they could do. The conditions didn't exist for them to become more complex.


Yes, I accept their culture is a result of geography and environment. I don't view them as inferior humanoids but I view their culture as inferior.   


Inferior is the wrong word. That they were able to live sustainably for tens of thousand of years is in some sense superior. I would say that their culture is different. Put it this way, I would prefer indigenous culture to North Korean culture, or to some other cultures in the world.


No,  I'd characterise them as the most basic examples of human society.

All humans mastered their environments. The prehistoric Britons would have also known the use of every last plant and animal available to them. Just look at the incredible achievements of other cultures above survival,  then look at the aboriginals. Not inferior peole, inferior culture.


We pretty much agree on the same thing; I just think we differ on the semantics. I prefer to use words like 'social institutions' and 'ideas' rather than 'culture'. The latter is too broad, whilst the former are more specific and more neutral in tone. "Some social institutions are better than others; some ideas are better than ideas."


Yes we both agree that fundamentally human hardware is not a factor.

The thing I find particular funny is the way their culture is elevated to what it simply isn't. 

Fish traps are described as aquaculture.
Trading with the guys over the hill is called export.


There was far ore to it than simply fish traps.

Don't stay ignorant you're whole life, Gordy.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bushtelegraph/rethinking-indigenous...
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mothra
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #301 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 3:47pm  
They were traditionally river and lake people, with Framlingham Forest, Lake Condah and the surrounding river systems being of great importance to them economically and spiritually. They had a sophisticated system of aquaculture and eel farming as well as stone dwellings. They built stone dams to hold the water in these areas, creating ponds and wetlands in which they grew Short-finned eels and other fish. They also created channels linking these wetlands.These channels contained weirs with large woven baskets made by women to harvest mature eels.[2][3]

Speaking of the Gunditjmara people.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunditjmara
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #302 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 5:54pm  
Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 11:40pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:02pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:50pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:45pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
Aboriginal culture is one of the least developed on earth.

Why is so hard to accept this while at the same time accepting they are people who deserve to have their hopes and dreams fulfilled and live with dignity like everyone else?  Why do we needs this ridiculous charade to pretend they are something they are not.


I agree that there are different levels of complexity. The Indigenous Peoples of Australia had less complex civilization than others. We must also recognize that the the culture has been continuous for around 40,000 years, which is something that other civilizations haven't achieved.


Because of isolation, which is now their downfall.
Cultures that mixed adapted and improved. 
The world would be a dull place if we'd never advanced further than that of aboriginals



Isolation played a role. The point that you need to understand is that there was nothing more that they could do. The conditions didn't exist for them to become more complex.


Yes, I accept their culture is a result of geography and environment. I don't view them as inferior humanoids but I view their culture as inferior.   


Inferior is the wrong word. That they were able to live sustainably for tens of thousand of years is in some sense superior. I would say that their culture is different. Put it this way, I would prefer indigenous culture to North Korean culture, or to some other cultures in the world.


No,  I'd characterise them as the most basic examples of human society.

All humans mastered their environments. The prehistoric Britons would have also known the use of every last plant and animal available to them. Just look at the incredible achievements of other cultures above survival,  then look at the aboriginals. Not inferior peole, inferior culture.


We pretty much agree on the same thing; I just think we differ on the semantics. I prefer to use words like 'social institutions' and 'ideas' rather than 'culture'. The latter is too broad, whilst the former are more specific and more neutral in tone. "Some social institutions are better than others; some ideas are better than ideas."


Yes we both agree that fundamentally human hardware is not a factor.

The thing I find particular funny is the way their culture is elevated to what it simply isn't. 

Fish traps are described as aquaculture.
Trading with the guys over the hill is called export.


It mainly comes down to political correctness. Also, the indigenous peoples' lifestyle was unique in certain respects.
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Frank
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #303 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 6:03pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 6:13pm:
Yet, Soren, Christianity originated in Palestine ("Middle-East" in modern regional parlance), it was made up of primarily Palestinian people, it's beliefs were primarily Palestinian and its fonder was Palestinian.   Funny how you keep ignoring that.  I wonder why?  Is it painful to admit that you worship a Jewish God and that your messiah was a Jew?  Tsk, tsk, such anti-Semitism.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
What crazy institution would confer an honorary Doctor of Divinity on you, a mere tendentious buffoon??



Tsk, tsk, resorting to ad hominem debate again, Soren?   Nothing "honorary" about my DD.    Roll Eyes



They should take that worthless DD off you Brian, you do not deserve even an online degree.

Christianity was not 'Palestinian', with 'Palestinian' beliefs and its founder was not 'Palestinian'. I ignore your stupidity because you are an ignorant, stupid buffoon, saying idiotic things that must be ignored.
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Frank
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #304 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 6:26pm  
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:45pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
Aboriginal culture is one of the least developed on earth.

Why is so hard to accept this while at the same time accepting they are people who deserve to have their hopes and dreams fulfilled and live with dignity like everyone else?  Why do we needs this ridiculous charade to pretend they are something they are not.


I agree that there are different levels of complexity. The Indigenous Peoples of Australia had a less complex civilization than others. I think this is due to the fact that they didn't need to develop complexity.


Why didn't they?  Under what circumstances is it preferable to remain stone age?
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Gordon
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #305 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 6:41pm  
Auggie wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 11:40pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:02pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:50pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:45pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
Aboriginal culture is one of the least developed on earth.

Why is so hard to accept this while at the same time accepting they are people who deserve to have their hopes and dreams fulfilled and live with dignity like everyone else?  Why do we needs this ridiculous charade to pretend they are something they are not.


I agree that there are different levels of complexity. The Indigenous Peoples of Australia had less complex civilization than others. We must also recognize that the the culture has been continuous for around 40,000 years, which is something that other civilizations haven't achieved.


Because of isolation, which is now their downfall.
Cultures that mixed adapted and improved. 
The world would be a dull place if we'd never advanced further than that of aboriginals



Isolation played a role. The point that you need to understand is that there was nothing more that they could do. The conditions didn't exist for them to become more complex.


Yes, I accept their culture is a result of geography and environment. I don't view them as inferior humanoids but I view their culture as inferior.   


Inferior is the wrong word. That they were able to live sustainably for tens of thousand of years is in some sense superior. I would say that their culture is different. Put it this way, I would prefer indigenous culture to North Korean culture, or to some other cultures in the world.


No,  I'd characterise them as the most basic examples of human society.

All humans mastered their environments. The prehistoric Britons would have also known the use of every last plant and animal available to them. Just look at the incredible achievements of other cultures above survival,  then look at the aboriginals. Not inferior peole, inferior culture.


We pretty much agree on the same thing; I just think we differ on the semantics. I prefer to use words like 'social institutions' and 'ideas' rather than 'culture'. The latter is too broad, whilst the former are more specific and more neutral in tone. "Some social institutions are better than others; some ideas are better than ideas."


Yes we both agree that fundamentally human hardware is not a factor.

The thing I find particular funny is the way their culture is elevated to what it simply isn't. 

Fish traps are described as aquaculture.
Trading with the guys over the hill is called export.


It mainly comes down to political correctness. Also, the indigenous peoples' lifestyle was unique in certain respects.


I can swallow a bit of PC for the sake of their empowerment, but the levels it gets to is just farcical.

Once I was in a national park getting a tour and talk from a ranger, and she showed us a replica of an Aboriginal water maker, a pile of stones on the top of a hill as a guide to water locations. Cool! But she added that Aboriginals had some of the most sophisticated water management systems.

I've been to Pont du Gard and Angkor Wat and the Colosseum , sorry but I'm just not impressed by a 100cm pile of stones.



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Raven
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #306 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:42am  
Frank wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 6:26pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:45pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
Aboriginal culture is one of the least developed on earth.

Why is so hard to accept this while at the same time accepting they are people who deserve to have their hopes and dreams fulfilled and live with dignity like everyone else?  Why do we needs this ridiculous charade to pretend they are something they are not.


I agree that there are different levels of complexity. The Indigenous Peoples of Australia had a less complex civilization than others. I think this is due to the fact that they didn't need to develop complexity.


Why didn't they?  Under what circumstances is it preferable to remain stone age?



Probably a number of reasons they didn't develop a more "complex" society.

The Australian continent lacked beasts of burden and a high yield agricultural crop.

North and South American civilisations were built around corn, Asia had rice and Europe and North Africa had wheat.

It's possible that aboriginal people brought with them some form of crop when they first entered Australia, after all at that time they would of been the most advanced humans on the planet.

However northern Australia would have been hostile to crops at that time, the area is fire prone in the dry season and suffers from nutrient leeching in the wet so any crop they introduced probably went extinct.

The fact that they were able to survive in a hostile environment for tens of thousands of years is extraordinary.

They are the planet's oldest surviving culture. And a complex one.

Their art, music, stories speak of a complex society.

The laws they put in place to preserve their genetic heritage in a sparsely populated, isolated area speaks of an intelligent race that understood the dangers of limited genetic diversity.

For Raven the sign of an advanced culture is not who has the best toys, who's more technologically advanced. Too many of the technologically advanced cultures in history have gone extinct

No, what makes a superior culture is a culture whose works of art, their music, their poets are admired and preserved and fought for.

Aboriginal culture has survived for over 40,000 years. No other culture on earth has lasted even half that time.
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rhino
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #307 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:50am  
Out of all the nig nogs in the world, the abos are the most primitive.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #308 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:53am  
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 6:02am:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:40pm:
[quote author=Time link=1487646898/276#276 date=1489055568]

They developed farming, crops, bridges, roads, urbanisation, pyramids, and so on because they were situated in the right place at the right time when such things could be developed, CW.   Why did the British develop stone circles?  Why did the Indian civilisations develop crops?  Why did the Asians develop music?  Nothing to do with biology, all to do with circumstances.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


biology always plays a part - to what degree is the question. to repeat, without biology there are no humans. the environment doesn't create human beings out of thin air.


True but biology does not determine how we react to situations.  Tsk, tsk, and that is what you're attempting to infer.   Biology has little to do with how humans interact and react to each other and to their environment.   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #309 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:54am  
Frank wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 6:03pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 6:13pm:
Yet, Soren, Christianity originated in Palestine ("Middle-East" in modern regional parlance), it was made up of primarily Palestinian people, it's beliefs were primarily Palestinian and its fonder was Palestinian.   Funny how you keep ignoring that.  I wonder why?  Is it painful to admit that you worship a Jewish God and that your messiah was a Jew?  Tsk, tsk, such anti-Semitism.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
What crazy institution would confer an honorary Doctor of Divinity on you, a mere tendentious buffoon??



Tsk, tsk, resorting to ad hominem debate again, Soren?   Nothing "honorary" about my DD.    Roll Eyes



They should take that worthless DD off you Brian, you do not deserve even an online degree.

Christianity was not 'Palestinian', with 'Palestinian' beliefs and its founder was not 'Palestinian'. I ignore your stupidity because you are an ignorant, stupid buffoon, saying idiotic things that must be ignored.


Christianity was created in Palestine by a Palestinian Carpenter's son, Soren.  As much as you deny that, the less is your grip on reality.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #310 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:57am  
rhino wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:50am:
Out of all the nig nogs in the world, the abos are the most primitive.


And you believe you're more sophisticated, Rhino?  Really?  You have got to be joking.  You leak hatred, racism, Xenophobia and Islamophobia from every pore.  Tsk. tsk.    Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #311 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:55am  
rhino wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:50am:
Out of all the nig nogs in the world, the abos are the most primitive.


Why?
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #312 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:34am  
So no-one is game to respond to my post.

Perfectly understandable, given the general 'trend'.  Roll Eyes

You all do understand,, don't you? that Australian aboriginals have just as much diversity in their DNA as any other citizen.?

The very fact that they survived here makes them a pretty significant representative of human adaptability.
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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #313 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:37am  
quote]Aboriginals are racially unique and science supports this. You really are a slow learner Brian,. Arguing against racism and arguing against racial differences are 2 different things. There is no argument that Aboriginals are not racially unique and you just make yourself look under educated by arguing the opposite.
[/quote]

But that is simply incorrect.


ERRR UMM .. actually I have no idea what you are saying with that post.

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Re: Aboriginals adapted
Reply #314 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 8:07am  
mothra wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 3:36pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 11:40pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:02pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:50pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:45pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
Aboriginal culture is one of the least developed on earth.

Why is so hard to accept this while at the same time accepting they are people who deserve to have their hopes and dreams fulfilled and live with dignity like everyone else?  Why do we needs this ridiculous charade to pretend they are something they are not.


I agree that there are different levels of complexity. The Indigenous Peoples of Australia had less complex civilization than others. We must also recognize that the the culture has been continuous for around 40,000 years, which is something that other civilizations haven't achieved.


Because of isolation, which is now their downfall.
Cultures that mixed adapted and improved. 
The world would be a dull place if we'd never advanced further than that of aboriginals



Isolation played a role. The point that you need to understand is that there was nothing more that they could do. The conditions didn't exist for them to become more complex.


Yes, I accept their culture is a result of geography and environment. I don't view them as inferior humanoids but I view their culture as inferior.   


Inferior is the wrong word. That they were able to live sustainably for tens of thousand of years is in some sense superior. I would say that their culture is different. Put it this way, I would prefer indigenous culture to North Korean culture, or to some other cultures in the world.


No,  I'd characterise them as the most basic examples of human society.

All humans mastered their environments. The prehistoric Britons would have also known the use of every last plant and animal available to them. Just look at the incredible achievements of other cultures above survival,  then look at the aboriginals. Not inferior peole, inferior culture.


We pretty much agree on the same thing; I just think we differ on the semantics. I prefer to use words like 'social institutions' and 'ideas' rather than 'culture'. The latter is too broad, whilst the former are more specific and more neutral in tone. "Some social institutions are better than others; some ideas are better than ideas."


Yes we both agree that fundamentally human hardware is not a factor.

The thing I find particular funny is the way their culture is elevated to what it simply isn't. 

Fish traps are described as aquaculture.
Trading with the guys over the hill is called export.


There was far ore to it than simply fish traps.

Don't stay ignorant you're whole life, Gordy.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bushtelegraph/rethinking-indigenous...


No there isn't

Unlike us .... they only caught what they needed for a feed, that's why there was always plenty.

It was never in their culture to hoard/stash it away for a rainy day or supply it/export it( Grin Grin Grin) on a commercial basis.

The whole concept is delusional.
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