Australian Politics Forum - Not a bad write-up.

Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Not a bad write-up. Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 1:54pm link
Back to top	IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Not a bad write-up. Reply #1 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 3:38pm The Dr of Divinity will not be impressed Herb. But thanks for the read.
Back to top	IP Logged

mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35578 Gender:	Re: Not a bad write-up. Reply #2 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:19pm Usual rubbish from Pickering.
Back to top	If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49402 At my desk.	Re: Not a bad write-up. Reply #3 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:22pm Do you disagree with anything he said?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 42350

Re: Not a bad write-up.
Reply #4 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:37pm

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:22pm:

Do you disagree with anything he said?

I disagree with most of what he says, FD. He deliberately paints a foul picture of Islam and Mohammed, without attempt to understand the context of what Mohammed did and why he did it. Rather like you, he seems to be applying early 21st century Western morality to early Arab 15th century circumstances. He does so because he is a self-confessed Islamophobe. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38850 Gender:	Re: Not a bad write-up. Reply #5 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:37pm freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:22pm: Do you disagree with anything he said? I didn't read any of what he said. Did you, Effendi?
Back to top	IP Logged

Lord Herbert

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 34441
Gender: male

Re: Not a bad write-up.
Reply #6 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:05pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:37pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:22pm:

Do you disagree with anything he said?

He deliberately paints a foul picture of Islam and Mohammed, without attempt to understand the context of what Mohammed did and why he did it. Rather like you, he seems to be applying early 21st century Western morality to early Arab 15th century circumstances.

Does this same apology and rationale apply to Australia's early settlers?

The context of the times, and trying to survive in a harsh environment.

Back to top

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 42350

Re: Not a bad write-up.
Reply #7 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:10pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:05pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:37pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:22pm:

Do you disagree with anything he said?

He deliberately paints a foul picture of Islam and Mohammed, without attempt to understand the context of what Mohammed did and why he did it. Rather like you, he seems to be applying early 21st century Western morality to early Arab 15th century circumstances.

Does this same apology and rationale apply to Australia's early settlers?

The context of the times, and trying to survive in a harsh environment.

Except they claimed they were of superior intellect/virtue/philosophy and many of their own numbers criticised them for what they were doing to indigenous Australians, Herbie. Roll Eyes

Circumstances does not excuse the massacring of Indigenous Australians, the stealing of their children, the destruction of their society and their culture. That is Genocide. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49402
At my desk.

Re: Not a bad write-up.
Reply #8 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:14pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:37pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:22pm:

Do you disagree with anything he said?

I disagree with most of what he says, FD. He deliberately paints a foul picture of Islam and Mohammed, without attempt to understand the context of what Mohammed did and why he did it. Rather like you, he seems to be applying early 21st century Western morality to early Arab 15th century circumstances. He does so because he is a self-confessed Islamophobe. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

He paints a foul picture of Muhammed because Muhammed was a foul person and that is an entirely reasonable picture to create. You would have no problem at all with this if it were not for the millions of people who use him as a 21st century moral guide, which for some reason compels you to abandon morality in judging him.

That is also why you cannot point out anything that is actually wrong with the article.

Quote:

I didn't read any of what he said. Did you, Effendi?

Yes. It is an interesting read.

Quote:

Except they claimed they were of superior intellect/virtue/philosophy

Are you saying this distinguishes it from Muslims and Muhammed?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 38850
Gender: male

Re: Not a bad write-up.
Reply #9 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:17pm

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:37pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:22pm:

Do you disagree with anything he said?

I disagree with most of what he says, FD. He deliberately paints a foul picture of Islam and Mohammed, without attempt to understand the context of what Mohammed did and why he did it. Rather like you, he seems to be applying early 21st century Western morality to early Arab 15th century circumstances. He does so because he is a self-confessed Islamophobe. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

He paints a foul picture of Muhammed because Muhammed was a foul person and that is an entirely reasonable picture to create. You would have no problem at all with this if it were not for the millions of people who use him as a 21st century moral guide, which for some reason compels you to abandon morality in judging him.

Effendi, I am yet again most abjectly sorry that I have to disturd your serendipitous bliss, but would you mind ever so much reading the PM I sent you many hours ago concerning an accusation of paedophilia levelled directly against me and two other Members?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:32pm by Aussie »

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49402
At my desk.

Re: Not a bad write-up.
Reply #10 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:19pm

Perhaps this twisted apologism is why Brian is so willing to pass moral judgement on Australians but not Muhammed:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 5:39pm:

I make no excuses for those nations and their laws, BV. I merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments. It is terrible but I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them. I am neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 139296 Gender:	Re: Not a bad write-up. Reply #11 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:21pm freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:22pm: Do you disagree with anything he said? Yes. " ... according to the Islamic activist, Yassmin Abdel-Magied, Sharia law is only* about ‘praying 5 times a day’ ... "* And it's by Zanetti, not Pickering.
Back to top	IP Logged

Lord Herbert

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 34441
Gender: male

Re: Not a bad write-up.
Reply #12 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:28pm

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:19pm:

Perhaps this twisted apologism is why Brian is so willing to pass moral judgement on Australians but not Muhammed:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 5:39pm:

It is terrible but I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them.

There's a tribe in Africa that throws a trussed-up live white goat onto a blazing fire to propitiate the Gods to give them a good harvest.

But you don't have the right or ability to criticise this practice in concert with others who would like to see this practice stopped to save any further suffering to goats in the future?

Do you realise how morally ill you are, Brian?

No right to criticise the people who organised and acted out the 800,000-deaths in Ruanda in 1993? It was 'unfortunate', but the proper protocol is for no one outside of Ruanda to offer a word of criticism or disapproval?

Isn't it time you stopped trolling nonsense like this, Brian? Yes, it gets you attention but at what cost to your reputation?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:36pm by Lord Herbert »

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 42350

Re: Not a bad write-up.
Reply #13 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 6:15pm

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:37pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:22pm:

Do you disagree with anything he said?

I disagree with most of what he says, FD. He deliberately paints a foul picture of Islam and Mohammed, without attempt to understand the context of what Mohammed did and why he did it. Rather like you, he seems to be applying early 21st century Western morality to early Arab 15th century circumstances. He does so because he is a self-confessed Islamophobe. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

He paints a foul picture of Muhammed because Muhammed was a foul person and that is an entirely reasonable picture to create. You would have no problem at all with this if it were not for the millions of people who use him as a 21st century moral guide, which for some reason compels you to abandon morality in judging him.

Nope. I believe that Mohammed was a human being and had just as many failings as all human beings did. He though, it mus be admitted, a successful human being who managed to forge a religious empire out of nothing. However, just as Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar or any other great military commander, he really cannot be judged by 21st century standards of morality. In the 14th century they did things differently, just as they did in earlier periods. You, however want to judge his actions by today's standards and are surprised that they don't measure up. Don't try and erect a strawman argument, FD, it doesn't work with me. Mohammed was a man who lived ~1400 years ago. While Muslims may hold him up as a paragon of virtue, I don't. He was a man and nothing more to me. He had his failings, like all men.

We don't see you judging Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great or Chingiz Khan or anybody else from history in the same manner. Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Auggie

Gold Member

Offline

The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571

Re: Not a bad write-up.
Reply #14 - Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 6:18pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 5:05pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:37pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2017 at 4:22pm:

Do you disagree with anything he said?

He deliberately paints a foul picture of Islam and Mohammed, without attempt to understand the context of what Mohammed did and why he did it. Rather like you, he seems to be applying early 21st century Western morality to early Arab 15th century circumstances.

Does this same apology and rationale apply to Australia's early settlers?

The context of the times, and trying to survive in a harsh environment.

You also have to understand that the context in which Mohammed and his followers were in was in a tribal society. Social and political organization in tribal societies is different from nation-states. For e.g. when you are a small group, you're at greater risk of being 'exterminated' and so you would do anything to survive. Today, millions of people living in nation-states; there's no chance of completing wiping out anyone.

Back to top

The Progressive President

IP Logged