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Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights (Read 27988 times)
Fuzzball
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #30 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:18pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:21pm:
And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights?

You know there are Muslim feminists, rrrrrright?


It's enablers like you who destroy the notion of taking women seriously. Fortunately, many of us have experienced strong, independent women, who would split their sides laughing at your unadulterated dross.

Oh and Cods isn't one of them....... Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #31 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:18pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:40pm:
However, I would like to point out that it was Christian missionaries who were responsible for the end of cannibalism in Melanesia and Polynesia, not Western liberalism or law. And if anyone wants to push the line that cannibalism in those islands was only a matter of ritual, they need to read the personal accounts of educated men who witnessed the native's relish for human flesh.

Understandably, the subject is a kind of No-No these days, because we do not want to make their descendants feel bad. But if you can think of a way to embarrass Europeans, feel free, its open season in multicultural circles.


Cannibalism was abandoned by the Pacific Islanders only when meat pies and snags were introduced by immigrant Aussie shopkeepers living on the islands.

I mean, fair dinkum ... part of the Catholic ritual is to give the parishioners a thin wafer and some wine while darkly intoning the words ... " ... the body of Christ ... the blood of Christ .... "

(As the disciples sat together, Jesus said, " Take it and eat it, for this is my body' " (Matthew 26:26). He then gave thanks and offered them the cup and said, " ‘Each of you drink from it, for this is my blood, .... ")

Dear O dear O dear ....

Abos tend to take things literally, and so the arrival of Priests on the islands didn't exactly contribute to a vegetarian diet with no more long pig included.

 
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mothra
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #32 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:19pm
 
Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:18pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:21pm:
And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights?

You know there are Muslim feminists, rrrrrright?


It's enablers like you who destroy the notion of taking women seriously. Fortunately, many of us have experienced strong, independent women, who would split their sides laughing at your unadulterated dross.

Oh and Cods isn't one of them....... Grin Grin Grin Grin


You didn't understand the question, did you.
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Fuzzball
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #33 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:21pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:19pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:18pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:21pm:
And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights?

You know there are Muslim feminists, rrrrrright?


It's enablers like you who destroy the notion of taking women seriously. Fortunately, many of us have experienced strong, independent women, who would split their sides laughing at your unadulterated dross.

Oh and Cods isn't one of them....... Grin Grin Grin Grin


You didn't understand the question, did you.


I understand that you can only mimic your little mentor haemorrhoid......you haven't an original thought in your vacant mind.........
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Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #34 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:21pm
 
Look at Mothballs sticking up for Islams poor treatment of women. WTF!!!
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mothra
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #35 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:22pm
 
Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:21pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:19pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:18pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:21pm:
And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights?

You know there are Muslim feminists, rrrrrright?


It's enablers like you who destroy the notion of taking women seriously. Fortunately, many of us have experienced strong, independent women, who would split their sides laughing at your unadulterated dross.

Oh and Cods isn't one of them....... Grin Grin Grin Grin


You didn't understand the question, did you.


I understand that you can only mimic your little mentor haemorrhoid......you haven't an original thought in your vacant mind.........


I'll take that as a 'no' then.
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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
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mothra
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #36 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:22pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:21pm:
Look at Mothballs sticking up for Islams poor treatment of women. WTF!!!


Nope. I' trying to explain that Islam is compatible with women's rights.

What have you failed to understand?
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« Last Edit: Apr 11th, 2017 at 4:38pm by mothra »  

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Fuzzball
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #37 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:23pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:22pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:21pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:19pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:18pm:
mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 2:21pm:
And how does the presence of misogyny prevent potential compatibility with women's rights?

You know there are Muslim feminists, rrrrrright?


It's enablers like you who destroy the notion of taking women seriously. Fortunately, many of us have experienced strong, independent women, who would split their sides laughing at your unadulterated dross.

Oh and Cods isn't one of them....... Grin Grin Grin Grin


You didn't understand the question, did you.


I understand that you can only mimic your little mentor haemorrhoid......you haven't an original thought in your vacant mind.........


I'll take that as a 'no' then.


You can take this as my middle finger..... 'I'....... Grin Grin Grin
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Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
"Holy Sh!t ... What a Ride!"
 
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Fuzzball
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #38 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:25pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:22pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 3:21pm:
Look at Mothballs sticking up for Islams poor treatment of women. WTF!!!


Indeed i am. What have you failed to understand?


Does it feel uncomfortable to have haemorrhoid's hand up your stench-trench, or are you used to it now?
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Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
"Holy Sh!t ... What a Ride!"
 
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Frank
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #39 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 4:53pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:26pm:
You are a bloody joke!

"Islam........Women's Rights"

Have you been on the plonk with Cods?

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


If muslims want it - why not?

These last couple of weeks I have learned a great deal about the power of self delusion. By somehow arguing that 1 Corinthians 10 is not really about compelling women to wear the veil, and to assert their inferior and subservient status to men, FD has demonstrated an extraordinary ability to not only defy what is so clearly written in front of him, but to also reject every single scholarly translation of it.

While it makes me flabbergasted on the one hand, it should also be admired that such amazing feats of mental gymnastics can be achieved.

What needs to be acknowledged here is that christianity - at least in the western world - has become quite progressive on matters related to women and equal rights. Yet here we see in Paul's letters (not just 1 Corinthians 10, there are several others), clear commands to subjugate women and make them subservient to men. FD is not even a christian, yet nonetheless throws himself head first into bible apologism. One can only imagine the sheer will power required of an actual Christian to explain away all the misogyny in their holy book. But power to them I say. Good for them for wanting to bring their scriptures into the 21st century.

As for Islam, I can assure you it is far easier to rationalise the Quran into something that is compatible with Women's rights than it is the bible. So theologically, there really shouldn't be a problem doing it. If it can be done in christianity, it can certainly be done in Islam.



Bollocks.

The Koran is the "final, unalterable and eternal word of Allah".  The Bible is a collection of inspired texts. Nobody claims it to be the final and unalterable word on anything. This makes modernisation, interpretation, reform easy and this is why Christianity is under constant review - something feared and loathed by Muslims because they know that if Christianity has diminished because of modernisation, Islam will disappear in a puff if anything even remotely similar is attempted with the Koran. At least Christianity has love at its core and you can't gainsay that. The texts of Islam have seething rancour and subjugation as their core, covered up by empty and silly incantations of a merciful go who is, in the next breath, declared unfathomable, unknowable, supra-rational, inaccessible.

The whole 'Allah's eternal, unalterable word' hooey has to be thrown overboard. And if that happens and the Koran is subject to intelligent review, it will all be chucked as well as it doesn't stand up to even cursory criticism.

That's why the bearded hordes in pajamas riot and kill at the slightest suggestion of review.  This is where Mohamemd painted you numpties into a corner you cannot escape except by apostasy. The old pryapic monsters has rogered all you Muslims, good and proper,  across the centuries.


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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #40 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 4:57pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:21pm:
These People Are Showing That Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights


TUNIS, Tunisia — A group of 30 imams and Islamic scholars, both men and women, recently gathered around a table to do something historic. Our goal is to find a better way forward for women and girls and to inoculate radicalism in a Muslim country that has, for hundreds of years, been a model progressive nation.

Meanwhile, in Burundi, a group of 26 imams — in an organization called Alliance of Imams of the North Corridor for Humanitarian Development (AICNDH) — is striving to defend the rights of women and girls in a country now consumed with civil strife. In various mosques across the northern part of the country, these imams recently delivered 12 khutbahs, or speeches, on women’s rights in Islam. AICNDH, in partnership with Muslims for Progressive Values, will be hosting a series of conferences at universities and schools in Burundi over the coming months, also on Muslim women’s rights.

Together, these imams are the brave #ImamsForShe: religious and lay leaders, Islamic scholars, men and women. They debunk the misogynistic interpretation of Islam. They fight against the violation of the rights of women and girls in the Muslim world and beyond. These are the imams we need to empower and mobilize.

For many years in our Muslim communities, we have heard from too many hate-mongering imams, whose Wahhabi theology is radical, racist and supremacist. Their interpretation of Islam is based on what “Sharia law” dictates. But Sharia law is a man-made construct. Sharia law is a mash-up of medieval, misogynistic political leaders’ extrapolation of the Quran, pre-Islamic norms, cultural norms of the day and hadiths (secondary texts of what Prophet Muhammad supposedly said and did, compiled by men more than 100 years after his death).

Instead of challenging these false “truths,” the American mainstream media popularizes them, like when the Islamist imam Anjem Choudary was featured on CBS in a “60 Minutes” episode; he is also a favorite of Fox News. The ex-Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s propagation of Islamist theology makes her complicit as well, and she is popular on media outlets from the right to left, including NPR.

Less visible in the public discourse is another set of imams who have an inclusive worldview. Far too often, they are shut out by Muslim communities, slandered for challenging the misogynistic interpretations of the faith and, in some instances, killed by radicals.

Muslims for Progressive Values is a grassroots, faith-based human rights organization. For years we have been in search of these inclusive imams. We have been elated to partner with them, but we’ve also discovered that they recoil in fear at the thought of going public with their views.

Borrowing from the United Nations Women’s #HeForShe campaign, promoted by actress Emma Watson, we designed a new campaign called #ImamsForShe. We need to counter the domination of Islamist imams in our societies with #ImamsForShe and to actually improve the lives of all human beings, particularly women.

In March of last year in New York, at the U.N. Commission on the Status of Women session, we launched the campaign to a packed room of diplomats and non-governmental organizations hungry for #ImamsForShe to positively affect real lives on the ground. We reached 125,000 people on social media, were featured on Voices of New York, written up in a Danish newspaper, praised and promoted by the minister for education, culture and science in The Netherlands and, most importantly, endorsed and championed by imams and human rights defenders of Muslim heritage.

On March 23, we will take this initiative to the next level with a workshop that will pair up imams from various Muslim backgrounds with secular women’s rights defenders at the U.N.’s 60th session of the Commission on the Status of Women in New York.

The #ImamsForShe campaign is meant to empower women to educate themselves about their rights in Islam so that no mullah or husband can deprive them or their daughters of their right to decide whom they choose to marry. These imams put forward an uplifting, inclusive and compassionate expression of Islam. They challenge female genital mutilation, child marriages, male “guardianship” and the death sentence of daughters who supposedly dishonor the family name.

Imams in the Muslim world are, for the most part, highly regarded. It is a hierarchical system that is not going to disappear. But with that status of authority comes great responsibility. That is why working within that system is necessary if we are to positively affect people’s lives. We need #ImamsForShe to counter radicalism with the same conviction as the hate-mongering imams.

A Pew Forum report last year on world religions states that by the year 2050, the world Muslim population will bump up against the Christian world population. What sort of adherents to Islam should we hope for? The Islamist ones who have destroyed historical sites, churches, mosques and have enslaved girls and pushed gays off tall buildings? Or Muslims with an inclusive worldview?

The choice is clear.

High Commissioner Zeid Ra’ad Al-Hussein put it perfectly: “We must persevere together until we bend the course of humanity’s future to a destination more hopeful and enlightened, in which human decency is the only currency of human interaction.”



Grin Grin Grin
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mothra
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #41 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 5:01pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 4:53pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 12:26pm:
You are a bloody joke!

"Islam........Women's Rights"

Have you been on the plonk with Cods?

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


If muslims want it - why not?

These last couple of weeks I have learned a great deal about the power of self delusion. By somehow arguing that 1 Corinthians 10 is not really about compelling women to wear the veil, and to assert their inferior and subservient status to men, FD has demonstrated an extraordinary ability to not only defy what is so clearly written in front of him, but to also reject every single scholarly translation of it.

While it makes me flabbergasted on the one hand, it should also be admired that such amazing feats of mental gymnastics can be achieved.

What needs to be acknowledged here is that christianity - at least in the western world - has become quite progressive on matters related to women and equal rights. Yet here we see in Paul's letters (not just 1 Corinthians 10, there are several others), clear commands to subjugate women and make them subservient to men. FD is not even a christian, yet nonetheless throws himself head first into bible apologism. One can only imagine the sheer will power required of an actual Christian to explain away all the misogyny in their holy book. But power to them I say. Good for them for wanting to bring their scriptures into the 21st century.

As for Islam, I can assure you it is far easier to rationalise the Quran into something that is compatible with Women's rights than it is the bible. So theologically, there really shouldn't be a problem doing it. If it can be done in christianity, it can certainly be done in Islam.



Bollocks.

The Koran is the "final, unalterable and eternal word of Allah".  The Bible is a collection of inspired texts. Nobody claims it to be the final and unalterable word on anything. This makes modernisation, interpretation, reform easy and this is why Christianity is under constant review - something feared and loathed by Muslims because they know that if Christianity has diminished because of modernisation, Islam will disappear in a puff if anything even remotely similar is attempted with the Koran. At least Christianity has love at its core and you can't gainsay that. The texts of Islam have seething rancour and subjugation as their core, covered up by empty and silly incantations of a merciful go who is, in the next breath, declared unfathomable, unknowable, supra-rational, inaccessible.

The whole 'Allah's eternal, unalterable word' hooey has to be thrown overboard. And if that happens and the Koran is subject to intelligent review, it will all be chucked as well as it doesn't stand up to even cursory criticism.

That's why the bearded hordes in pajamas riot and kill at the slightest suggestion of review.  This is where Mohamemd painted you numpties into a corner you cannot escape except by apostasy. The old pryapic monsters has rogered all you Muslims, good and proper,  across the centuries.




Then how, pray tell, do the Imams and Muslims described in the article reconcile women's right's with their faith?

How are there Muslim women who identify as feminists?


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mothra
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #42 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 5:07pm
 
You lot talk of women's rights only to use them as a vehicle to demonise Islam as a whole.

Yet you won't even accept the existence of women who are Muslim who happen to be feminists and advocate for women's rights.

You should be applauding these women. Desiring to know more about them and encouraging them in their struggle ... lest you be considered a bunch of hypocrites.
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #43 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 6:56pm
 



A collection of evidences [with the latest at the top] attesting to the contrary;


https://www.jihadwatch.org/category/womens-rights-in-islam



.



a few examples......

Sweden: Muslim school segregates boys and girls, makes girls enter bus at the back

Malaysia: Muslim MP and former Sharia court judge says 9-year-olds can marry and rapists can marry victims

Italy: Muslim mom shaves head of daughter for not wearing hijab

India: Muslim leader says “women are impure during menstruation and should not enter a place of worship during this period”

Iran: Alarming rise in acid attacks against women who are not properly veiled

Pakistani girls given extra credit at school for wearing hijab, classes must begin with Hadith

UK: Muslims barrage Muslima in hijab with death threats for twerking

US-based Muslims divorce their wives in India using WhatsApp
[n.b. very onerous conditions are placed upon moslem women who want to divorce their husbands]

UK: Sharia courts operating beyond reach of British law and oppressing women




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Islam Is Compatible With Women’s Rights
Reply #44 - Apr 11th, 2017 at 7:08pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 11th, 2017 at 4:53pm:
The Koran is the "final, unalterable and eternal word of Allah".  The Bible is a collection of inspired texts. Nobody claims it to be the final and unalterable word on anything. This makes modernisation, interpretation, reform easy and this is why Christianity is under constant review - something feared and loathed by Muslims


Its a fair point. And I thank you for pointing out that the Bible and Quran are not equivalent.

Its true that muslims consider the Quran inerrant and unalterable - but it doesn't mean it can't be rationalised and adapted to suit the times. This is possible because most of the language is very general to the point of being ambiguous. Intentionally so, IMO. And this is why I always point out the strong Islamic tradition of rationalism and using your intellect - firstly in interpreting the Quran, but also as a general guiding principle in life. And thats what drove the intellectual golden age. It is even commanded by the Quran itself. Not that you see that in today's muslim community of course - since the triumph of the so called 'traditionalists' (as in the traditions of Muhammad - and treating it as at least as sacred as the Quran). For with the traditionalist dogma, free thought and rationality is not needed - since every instruction they ever need can be spoonfed to them from some hadith or other.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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