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longweekend58
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Dnarever wrote on Apr 17 th, 2017 at 11:15am: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 17 th, 2017 at 10:49am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 17 th, 2017 at 9:09am: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 17 th, 2017 at 12:14am: Dnarever wrote on Apr 16 th, 2017 at 7:21pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 16 th, 2017 at 7:16pm: Dnarever wrote on Apr 16 th, 2017 at 6:57pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 16 th, 2017 at 6:36pm: Dnarever wrote on Apr 16 th, 2017 at 1:59pm: One of the major problems we have today is that government lie to us so much that we never know if they are telling the truth ? The real problem is that you believe that. In Russia or the like, that would be true. In Australia and most other first-world countries it is NOT true. Yes, they obsfucate at ties and other times, pollies do lie. The problem is that you take note of their lies and mentally record them but the vast majority of the time when they tell the truth you forget. Perhaps it is time to realise the difference between political-speak and actual lies. The real problem is that you believe that.
Now you want to backpedal from your 3 year campaign against Gillard's supposed Lie ? You want to say that Iraq really did have WMD's ? How about children really were thrown overboard ? Tony Abbott really didn't cut the ABC or SBS didn't remove funding from Health pensioners or education ? Many of the statements made and election promises were not just political speak. The point is that there are enough untruths in the mix that you never really know. you've just quoted 4 examples from over 10 years. That's my point. It's not that pollies dont lie but they dont lie all the time as you are presuming. When Putin talks (or TRump) the assumption is that he is lying because his lips are moving. But most other pollies in the west do in fact tell the truth or a sanitised version much of the time. The reason why crazies believe the 'fake news' nonsense is because other people (like you) continually reinforce their paranoia with statements like yours. Feel free to criticise are critically assess what pollies say, but to assume they lie most of the time is simply false - except for Trump. Most politicians are not literally suffering from mental illness that leads them to pathologically lie, not even Gillard.  One resulted in us being involved in an illegal invasion, they were all relatively important issues and they represent not much more than the tip of the iceberg. Besides it is enough to make people doubt the politicians, as you point out the bigger the issue the more likely that it isn't true. That is not at all what I said, in fact, quite the contrary. WMDs and Children overboard werent 'lies', they were ERRORS, which is a big, massive enormous difference. You have to disentangle people saying things they believe to be true but arent and lying. They two are very different. Gillard for instance, KNEW there would be a carbon tax. Howard did not know children overboard was false. He was reporting what he was told, ergo, not a lie. Quote:WMDs and Children overboard werent 'lies', they were ERRORS, which is a big, massive enormous difference.
They were both clear and direct lies. Howard continued to claim children were thrown overboard long after he knew that it wasn't the truth. In justifying the Iraq invasion Howard claimed to have seen evidence that WMD's existed. At that time Australian agencies were saying that they didn't know so the assumption was that the USA had provided Howard with this proof. However after the war was over the US eventually admitted that they never had any evidence. Clearly Howard had told us a Lie to justify an illegal invasion. Neither of these were ambiguous, errors, mistakes or misunderstandings. you are absolutely missing the point and simply returning to one of your arguing points from years ago. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE. The issue is that pollies (except Trump) are NOT pathological liars. They don't need to be pathological liars to not be trusted, In Howards case it was a steady stream of lies but some others just occasional however the point is that as soon as their is the genuine knowledge that the Prime Minister has told lies you never know for sure if the current issue is the next one. This current story is a prime example - I have no idea if this is genuine or not, there is no reliable evidence so far to let people judge the issue. However for mine the response seemed a bit quick to have been fully researched which means that if they got it right it may have had as much to do with luck as anything else and that their is a relatively high probability that they didn't get it right. This is more likely not about direct lies just getting it wrong. If they were wrong they will very likely defend it with lies. so the difference between you and a trump supporter is paper-thin. Your ideology trumps principles. Your continued pitiful defence of Gillard's lie is the proof of this.
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