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Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking (Read 18039 times)

Grendel

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Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking
Reply #135 - May 22^nd, 2017 at 8:42pm

Auggie wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 8:38pm:

Quote:

As for the solution to protecting Australians from Muslims jihadists... happy to hear your solution. You do have one right? Roll Eyes

The solution is to abide by our principals of liberty and tolerance, and individualism - to not succumb to tribalism, hate and extremism.

The fact is that the current strategy of supposedly 'burying our heads in the sand' (including world leaders) has actually mitigated any recriminations by Muslims - it would've been a hell of lot worse if we adopted the tactics that you, FD and others are espousing.

Well Gandalf actually agreed that the one solution I put forward would work.
YOU however have no solution and are burying your head in the sand... goodo... Roll Eyes

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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking Reply #136 - May 22^nd, 2017 at 8:48pm Grendel wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 8:42pm: YOU however have no solution and are burying your head in the sand. I proposed a solution; you just don't happen to agree with it... What is your solution?
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking Reply #137 - May 22^nd, 2017 at 10:11pm Well I haven't seen your suggestion, just your vaguely progressive comment, which is no solution. Feel free to post it here...
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Auggie

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Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking
Reply #138 - May 22^nd, 2017 at 11:21pm

Grendel wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 10:11pm:

Well I haven't seen your suggestion, just your vaguely progressive comment, which is no solution. Cheesy

Feel free to post it here... Roll Eyes

It's simple, Soren.... All you have to do is look around you and look at this wonderful in which we live, and you'll find the answer there. We inherited the posterity of British liberty and democracy, and that, Soren, is the solution.

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Yadda

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Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking
Reply #139 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 12:50am

Auggie wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 7:58pm:

Yadda wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 6:42pm:

'Reform' of ISLAM is absolutely, absolutely, absolutely impossible.

No idea is beyond reform. And if you believe that, then you are doing the moderates a grave disservice.

'Moderate moslems'.

LOL

AugCaesarustus,

The 'moderate moslem' is a mythical creature - 'it'/he does not exist.

Why so ?

ARGUMENT;
There are no 'moderate' moslems.

Because there is no moderate ISLAM !

Duh!

AugCaesarustus,

Lets pursue this notion a little further......

What is a MOSLEM ?

A moslem is a follower of ISLAM. < -------- dictionary definition.

AugCaesarustus,

You refer to the 'moderate moslem'.

AugCaesarustus,

QUESTIONS;
1/ Does the Allah of the moderate moslem, tell him to accept non-moslems as friends ?

Where ?

"Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them."
Koran 3.28

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1

2/ Does the Messenger of Allah of the moderate moslem, tell the moderate moslem NOT to kill apostates ?

Where ?

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

Does the Koran of the moderate moslem, tell the moderate moslem NOT to fight against disbelievers ?

Where ?

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

AugCaesarustus,

QUESTION;
I am intrigued.

Please do tell us, where does the 'moderate moslem' derive his 'moderate' religious precepts from ?

And what are these religious precepts, which the 'moderate moslem' has embraced ?

Tell us about them.

.

Auggie wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 7:58pm:

You're propagating the same beliefs that ISIS are: that Islam is practised in its true form. ISIS is winning the battle of ideas because Western such as Yadda actually agrees with ISIS' interpretation of religion and of Islam.

LOL

augcaesarustus,

No.

I am simply expounding upon what ISLAM itself, mainstream ISLAM, teaches.

Evidence ???

-------- >

Quote:

Creed of the sword
Mark Durie
September 23, 2006
.....the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdel Aziz al-Sheikh, issued a statement on the official Saudi news service, defending Muslims' divine right to resort to violence:

"The spread of Islam has gone through several phases, secret and then public, in Mecca and Medina. God then authorised the faithful to defend themselves and to fight against those fighting them, which amounts to a right legitimised by God. This ... is quite reasonable, and God will not hate it."
Saudi Arabia's most senior cleric also explained that war was never Islam's ancient founder, the prophet Mohammed's, first choice: "He gave three options: either accept Islam, or surrender and pay tax, and they will be allowed to remain in their land, observing their religion under the protection of Muslims." Thus, according to the Grand Mufti, the third option of violence against non-Muslims was only a last resort, if they refused to convert or surrender peacefully to the armies of Islam.
.......At the beginning, in Mohammed's Meccan period, when he was weaker and his followers few, passages of the Koran encouraged peaceful relations and avoidance of conflict: "Invite (all) to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." (16:125)
Later, after persecution and emigration to Medina in the first year of the Islamic calendar, authority was given to engage in warfare for defensive purposes only: "Fight in the path of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for God does not love transgressors." (2:190)
As the Muslim community grew stronger and conflict with its neighbours did not abate, further revelations expanded the licence for waging war, until in Sura 9, regarded as one of the last chapters to be revealed, it is concluded that war against non-Muslims could be waged more or less at any time and in any place to extend the dominance of Islam.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20460114-601,00.html

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking
Reply #140 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 1:08am

Auggie wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 7:58pm:

Yadda wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 6:42pm:

How can devout moslems be expected to allow the reform of their religion [ISLAM], when the overwhelming majority of devout moslems firmly believe that ISLAM is Allah's already perfected religion ?

Because they've been brainwashed, Yadda by people who want to manipulate them and exert power over them.

LOL

Really ?

augcaesarustus, will you tell those moslems, that they have been corrupted and brainwashed by ISLAM, or shall i ?

Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1356039845/35#35
Quote:

The truth is that ISLAM is an evil philosophy, which, imo, creates a mental pathology [a 'sickness'] in the psyche of those human beings who choose to embrace it.

And ISLAM is spread by moslems.

Moslems bring ISLAM with them, wherever they go in the world.

augcaesarustus,

Remove them.

Moslems.

Every single one, that self declares; "I'm a moslem."

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1252898491/0#0
Quote:

CRIMINAL INTENT IN THE MOSLEM HEART

Dictionary,
malice aforethought = = Law the intention to kill or harm, held to distinguish unlawful killing from murder.

I would argue, that the criminal intent of the moslem [who lives among us], can be demonstrated and reasonably proven.

QUESTION;
But what use is 'the law', if those who administer 'the law' [as stewards and 'caretakers' of the law], are unwilling to bring due sanctions against wrongdoers ?

.

Yadda said....
Quote:

Quote:

"...people won't get killed, ....unjustly."

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qgLQhvPdIWc/hqdefault.jpg

- Abu Usamah - a moslem teacher, in the UK

The above, was transcribed from the YT cited below.

Those words [of Abu Usamah], cited above, could have been written last week, by the same moslems who were the 'principals' and the participants, of the latest attacks against - INFIDELS - in Paris

This moslem teacher, Abu Usamah, in the UK, is certain that a moslem political violence [Jihad] is coming against the unbelievers of Europe.

And once the moslems have taken over the government of the UK/Europe, the moslem teacher Abu Usamah, assures his audience [i.e. the moslems], that everything will be fine, because;

"...people won't get killed, ....unjustly."

Well that's a relief!

But in his statement the moslem teacher seems to imply that some people WILL, "get killed"!

But which people ?

Which 'people' could this moslem teacher be talking about ???

------- >

Seek out, and watch the Channel 4 [UK] Undercover Mosque
documentary on YT

Google;
dispatches undercover mosque, channel 4, -Return

goto 00 min 52 sec

Quote:

"A Despatches investigation has uncovered a 'fundamentalist message' spreading from the Saudi Arabian religious establishment, through [UK] mosques run by major UK organisations which claim to be dedicated to moderation and to dialogue with other faiths."

goto 02 min 52 sec

Quote:

"....he preaches against non-moslem law."
"We want our ISLAM and its laws to be practised.
We want to do away with the man-made-laws."
- [Abu Usamah - a moslem teacher, in the UK]

goto 03 min 35 sec

Quote:

"....he says moslems should obey British law and contracts,

......[with the qualification] IF THEY DO NOT CONTRADICT ISLAM [i.e. ISLAMIC laws].

But he condemns non-believers."

"No-one loves the kuffar. No-one loves the kuffar!!

Not a single person here from the moslems loves the kuffar.

.....We love the people of ISLAM.

And we hate the people of the kuffar."

- [Abu Usamah - a moslem teacher, in the UK]

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Auggie

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Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking
Reply #141 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 2:24pm

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 1:08am:

will you tell those moslems, that they have been corrupted and brainwashed by ISLAM, or shall i ?

Telling them won't work; they need to work it out by themselves, as we did during the Reformation.

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 1:08am:

The truth is that ISLAM is an evil philosophy, which, imo, creates a mental pathology [a 'sickness'] in the psyche of those human beings who choose to embrace it.

So then, to what extent is the believer to blame for his/her beliefs? Can we blame solely the ideology itself without taking into consideration that people swallow these beliefs and accept them?

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 1:08am:

Remove them.

Sounds like the Final Solution to me.

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 1:08am:

CRIMINAL INTENT IN THE MOSLEM HEART

So, you want to criminalize people for holding beliefs? Punish people for thought-crimes?

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 12:50am:

The 'moderate moslem' is a mythical creature - 'it'/he does not exist.

Waleed Aly is an example of a moderate Muslim. Do you deny this? What about Ed Husic, the Bosnian MP who swore his oath on the Quran; do you believe he is not moderate? What about Maajid Nawaz - the head of the Quilliam Foundation and its members? Aren't they moderate Muslims? What about those Muslims who genuinely condemn terrorism and don't support it.

There are many moderate Muslims who don't interpret the Quran in the way you think they should.

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 12:50am:

What is a MOSLEM ?

A moslem is a follower of ISLAM.

As you know, Islam means 'submission' to God - a Muslim is a person who submits to God. That's it.

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 12:50am:

"Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them."
Koran 3.28

If you read this verse through uneducated eyes and take it at face value, then yes it seems as though God is stating that Muslims shouldn't be friends with Christians and Jews.

If you understand the entire Quran, then it is clear that verses such as these are referring to a situation in which the Christians and Jews have committed injustice against Muslims. Therefore, the injustice is 'bad behaviour', and because of the context at the time, God states that people should stay away from 'bad behaviour' so that they're not influenced by those people - just as any parent would discourage a child from associating themselves with a bad person.

This verse and other like it DOES NOT REFER TO THE PEOPLE WHO DO 'GOOD DEEDS' OR WHO ARE APATHETIC ABOUT RELIGION. This is context of such verses. Don't forget that at the time, belief and action were thought to the be one and the same - if you believed something then you would do it; but in a modern world we recognize that people have beliefs upon which they do not act.

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 1:08am:

the criminal intent of the moslem [who lives among us]

The criminal intent is not solely motivated by scripture. I've read the Quran and researched it. Why haven't I reached the same conclusions as these other 'Muslims'? Even if I converted to Islam (if I married someone who is Muslim) I would not adopt those 'views' of the religion. Why? Because I'm not a psychopath or sociopath - that is the connecting factor between thought and belief.

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 12:50am:

"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1

Again, same interpretation - it refers to 'not being influenced by people who are propagating bad ideas or acting out bad behaviours.' This is abundantly clear if read the Quran in entirety.

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 12:50am:

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

I don't bother about the Hadith - it's fundamentally against the principal of Islam, which is notion that the 'recitation' i.e. Quran is the Word of God. The Hadith is not the word of God; ergo, it should've never been included in the canon of scripture.

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 12:50am:

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

So, with a verse such as this (and even with the foregoing ones), you have to ask yourself the question: 'why would God dictate such a verse?' Why would God command a person to harm another person for exercising his or her rationality?

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 12:50am:

Please do tell us, where does the 'moderate moslem' derive his 'moderate' religious precepts from ?

He/she derives from his/her ability to think rationally.

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Grendel

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Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking
Reply #142 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 2:52pm

Auggie wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 11:21pm:

Grendel wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 10:11pm:

Well I haven't seen your suggestion, just your vaguely progressive comment, which is no solution. Cheesy

Feel free to post it here... Roll Eyes

Well I'm not Soren, but I am right about you.
You are starting to sound an awful lot like bwian, and we all know he has a great many socks. Cheesy

Once more I ask you for a real solution... Roll Eyes

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking Reply #143 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 2:56pm LOL.... picked this little bit from the last post from Aggie re Yadda. Islam=Submission... one must submit one must be subdued... Now if God gave us free will then why would he wish us to be subdued?
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96641	Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking Reply #144 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 3:50pm Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 1:08am: Remove them.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking Reply #145 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 4:47pm Karnal wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 3:50pm: Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 1:08am: Remove them. Can't express stuff in your own words eh karnal? Here try this... allowed to return to a society which holds the same beliefs.
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking Reply #146 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 5:06pm Quote: Now if God gave us free will then why would he wish us to be subdued? God doesn't require us to submit to Him. We can choose to do so. He simply says that submitting to Him would result in a better life.
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Waleed Aly's wife gets a roasting for spruiking Reply #147 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 5:07pm Quote: Once more I ask you for a real solution... I've given it.
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