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Islam vs other religions (Read 19774 times)
Auggie
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #150 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:51pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:09pm:
Auggie wrote on Jun 20th, 2017 at 11:26pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 20th, 2017 at 10:17pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 20th, 2017 at 9:54pm:
Gandalf claims to be a socialist. I think Abu made vague references to Islamic economics having similarities with socialism, but I couldn't get anyone to elaborate. Slavery and socialism are mutually exclusive, and Muhammad made a lot of money as a trader and by seizing control of the Kaaba, which had been a lucrative source of income for his family, and then by taxing people and collecting spoils of war. I suspect they just trot the socialism line out to appeal to deluded hippies.



Socialism is a continuation of slavery, they are not mutually exclusive.
In slavery, the lord owns you, In socialism, the State does.
Under Islam, the Ummah owes you,under sharia. It will kill you if you leave, like an escaping slave. Islam does mean Submission. It's just another word for Slavery. Muslims are Allah's slaves.


Economically, Islam is the worst possible system, it is a recipe fr poverty, degradation, slavery, backwardness. It suppresses economic, social activity.

A curse. It is suitable only for an ever-aggressive, ever-expanding and plundering economic model. There is  no room for that today. Islamic political economy is a curse, a toxic threat.



Even the abolition of compound interest?

Why not? Money is a commodity like any other.  Should I let you use my money to enrich yourself without charging you that use?



But, does it have to be compound interest? Why can't it be simple interest? I'd still be making a profit either way.
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #151 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 9:29am
 
Auggie wrote on Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:51pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:09pm:
Auggie wrote on Jun 20th, 2017 at 11:26pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 20th, 2017 at 10:17pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 20th, 2017 at 9:54pm:
Gandalf claims to be a socialist. I think Abu made vague references to Islamic economics having similarities with socialism, but I couldn't get anyone to elaborate. Slavery and socialism are mutually exclusive, and Muhammad made a lot of money as a trader and by seizing control of the Kaaba, which had been a lucrative source of income for his family, and then by taxing people and collecting spoils of war. I suspect they just trot the socialism line out to appeal to deluded hippies.



Socialism is a continuation of slavery, they are not mutually exclusive.
In slavery, the lord owns you, In socialism, the State does.
Under Islam, the Ummah owes you,under sharia. It will kill you if you leave, like an escaping slave. Islam does mean Submission. It's just another word for Slavery. Muslims are Allah's slaves.


Economically, Islam is the worst possible system, it is a recipe fr poverty, degradation, slavery, backwardness. It suppresses economic, social activity.

A curse. It is suitable only for an ever-aggressive, ever-expanding and plundering economic model. There is  no room for that today. Islamic political economy is a curse, a toxic threat.



Even the abolition of compound interest?

Why not? Money is a commodity like any other.  Should I let you use my money to enrich yourself without charging you that use?



But, does it have to be compound interest? Why can't it be simple interest? I'd still be making a profit either way.

Borrow from someone who charges interestst the way you like it.

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Auggie
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #152 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 1:48pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 22nd, 2017 at 9:29am:
Auggie wrote on Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:51pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:09pm:
Auggie wrote on Jun 20th, 2017 at 11:26pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 20th, 2017 at 10:17pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 20th, 2017 at 9:54pm:
Gandalf claims to be a socialist. I think Abu made vague references to Islamic economics having similarities with socialism, but I couldn't get anyone to elaborate. Slavery and socialism are mutually exclusive, and Muhammad made a lot of money as a trader and by seizing control of the Kaaba, which had been a lucrative source of income for his family, and then by taxing people and collecting spoils of war. I suspect they just trot the socialism line out to appeal to deluded hippies.



Socialism is a continuation of slavery, they are not mutually exclusive.
In slavery, the lord owns you, In socialism, the State does.
Under Islam, the Ummah owes you,under sharia. It will kill you if you leave, like an escaping slave. Islam does mean Submission. It's just another word for Slavery. Muslims are Allah's slaves.


Economically, Islam is the worst possible system, it is a recipe fr poverty, degradation, slavery, backwardness. It suppresses economic, social activity.

A curse. It is suitable only for an ever-aggressive, ever-expanding and plundering economic model. There is  no room for that today. Islamic political economy is a curse, a toxic threat.



Even the abolition of compound interest?

Why not? Money is a commodity like any other.  Should I let you use my money to enrich yourself without charging you that use?



But, does it have to be compound interest? Why can't it be simple interest? I'd still be making a profit either way.

Borrow from someone who charges interestst the way you like it.



I wasn't arguing that if it were practical to abolish compound interest, I was simply asking if it was 'moral'. Of course, no one will lend at simple interest, because the economic/financial system doesn't make it profitable to do so.

So, I was asking you the question from a moral perspective, not a practical one.
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #153 - Jun 23rd, 2017 at 12:41pm
 
Quote:
no, I'm suggesting you are looking for any excuse to apologise for the Qurayza's treason and to pretend there wasn't just cause to punish them for their actions.


Even you admitted it was a case of collective punishment. That's why you had to invent the mindless collective of treacherous warrior Jews argument. That is why you fabricated the claim that the Jews were conspiring to commit genocide against the Muslims. Muhammad committed genocide and you accuse people who point this out of making excuses for his victims.

Why did you laugh at your own suggestion that the Meccans murdered by Muhammad during his career as a highway robber were victims? Why does it seem so ludicrous that the Meccans might want to stop Muhammad robbing their caravans and murdering their traders? Is it because it does not fit into your absurd narrative that Muhammad and his immediate successors built the largest land empire the world had ever seen in only a century by merely acting in self defence?

Quote:
Now you are introducing another, but well worn apology: excusing the Quraysh for the forced eviction of peaceful protesters from their homes and ceasing all their property - or pretending it didn't happen.


No Gandalf. I am saying that the people that Muhammad murdered and robbed were not the same people, and even if they were, it does not justify Muhammad's career of murdering and robbing Meccan traders, and it does not justify your lie that Muhammad was compelled to commit genocide because the Jews were conspiring genocide of the Muslims. You are the one who introduced it, in a desperate effort to avoid acknowledging your fabricated propaganda to excuse Muhammad's genocide.

You previously acknowledged the broad problem of victimhood mongering among the Muslim community, yet here you are trying to portray Muhammad as the victim while he commits genocide of Jews. Does Islam compel Muslims to cry victimhood while committing crimes against humanity?

Quote:
Did the Qurayza stab Muhammad in the back because they felt so terrible about the poor murdered and robbed traders?


I expect it was because they were the last of three large Jewish tribes left in Medina and Muhammad was being openly hostile and belligerant towards them, because (as you said yourself) it was expedient for Muhammad to get rid of the powerful Jewish groups.

Quote:
The point of Islamic financing is that THE TOTAL AMOUNT IS SUPPOSED TO BE CHEAPER, which is why it's better.


That depends entirely on the time frame for repayment and the interest rate charged. If you pay the money back quickly, and interest-based fee will always be cheaper. For example, I have a credit card with a very high interest rate and no fixed fees. I make most of my purchases on it. I have never paid any kind of fee at all for the privilege. The idiots who misuse credit cards are subsidising the credit service provided to me.

Quote:
Of course, I acknowledge that in our economy, simple interest interest isn't viable; but I wanted to make that distinction.


It is stupid, that's all. Muslims are still free to lend money on that basis.

Quote:
But, does it have to be compound interest? Why can't it be simple interest? I'd still be making a profit either way.


It does not have to be anything. A loan is a private agreement between two parties that they enter into voluntarily. You can negotiate any terms you like. Unless of course you live under shariah law.

Quote:
I wasn't arguing that if it were practical to abolish compound interest, I was simply asking if it was 'moral'. Of course, no one will lend at simple interest, because the economic/financial system doesn't make it profitable to do so.


It could be very profitable, and there is actually an opportunity to take advantage of the idiocy of Muslims here. Set up a shariah compliant loan with an interest rate that is higher than the standard one, impose a deadline for repayment with significant penalties for being late. Once you are up and running, borrow large sums from a bank with a low rate and lend it out at a higher rate, and take a healthy slice of the repayments for yourself. Of course, you are stuck with the risk of getting lynched by a mob of angry Muslims when you try to foreclose on a house, particularly if you are Jewish.
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #154 - Jun 23rd, 2017 at 1:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 23rd, 2017 at 12:41pm:
Why did you laugh at your own suggestion that the Meccans murdered by Muhammad during his career as a highway robber were victims?


I wasn't laughing at the idea the caravaners were victims. I was laughing at such blinkered historical revisionism that identifies the caravan raids as the cause of the war - and not the forced eviction of peaceful muslims from their homes and ceasing of their property, which as far as I can tell you still prefer to pretend didn't happen.

freediver wrote on Jun 23rd, 2017 at 12:41pm:
yet here you are trying to portray Muhammad as the victim while he commits genocide of Jews.


He wasn't the victim FD - he had just won a great and defining battle. However he did just barely see off a real existential threat to his people. I think you are still having difficulty acknowledging that point correct? You're still persisting with the argument that 10 thousand men attempting to overrun your city and homeland doesn't pose an existential threat yes?
But if you didn't, then I don't see how you could have much problem with him dealing out punishment for treason - which has universally been death. Certainly not the high shrill faux outrage, crocodile tears for jews we've had to endure for about 4 years straight.
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #155 - Jun 23rd, 2017 at 2:29pm
 
You've stopped talking about slavery, FD.

What are you trying to hide?
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #156 - Jun 23rd, 2017 at 4:24pm
 
Gandalf,

Can you provide evidence that Muhammad and Muslims were subjected to a real and dangerous threat from any other group? I've heard that at the time the Christians were massacring Jews, can you confirm this?
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #157 - Jun 23rd, 2017 at 7:02pm
 
Auggie wrote on Jun 23rd, 2017 at 4:24pm:
Gandalf,

Can you provide evidence that ...

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

What are you, a Senate enquiry, questoning the minister or the departmental official???


Of course he can't 'provide evidence'. You don't need Gandalf to 'provide evidence' about Islam to you or anyone.


The evidence is everywhere. Gandalf will just twist it anyway.
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Auggie
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #158 - Jun 23rd, 2017 at 7:05pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 23rd, 2017 at 7:02pm:
Auggie wrote on Jun 23rd, 2017 at 4:24pm:
Gandalf,

Can you provide evidence that ...

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

What are you, a Senate enquiry, questoning the minister or the departmental official???


Of course he can't 'provide evidence'. You don't need Gandalf to 'provide evidence' about Islam to you or anyone.


The evidence is everywhere. Gandalf will just twist it anyway.


I'm sure an academic and credible book will outline this, but I don't have it on me. I though maybe Gandalf would have some evidence on him.
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #159 - Jun 23rd, 2017 at 8:57pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 23rd, 2017 at 7:02pm:
Auggie wrote on Jun 23rd, 2017 at 4:24pm:
Gandalf,

Can you provide evidence that ...

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

What are you, a Senate enquiry, questoning the minister or the departmental official???


Of course he can't 'provide evidence'. You don't need Gandalf to 'provide evidence' about Islam to you or anyone.


The evidence is everywhere. Gandalf will just twist it anyway.


Stop everything, chaps, pens down. The old boy has just volunteered to provide the evidence.

Carry on, old boy, we're all ears.
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Auggie
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #160 - Jun 23rd, 2017 at 9:05pm
 
Karnal wrote on Jun 23rd, 2017 at 8:57pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 23rd, 2017 at 7:02pm:
Auggie wrote on Jun 23rd, 2017 at 4:24pm:
Gandalf,

Can you provide evidence that ...

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

What are you, a Senate enquiry, questoning the minister or the departmental official???


Of course he can't 'provide evidence'. You don't need Gandalf to 'provide evidence' about Islam to you or anyone.


The evidence is everywhere. Gandalf will just twist it anyway.


Stop everything, chaps, pens down. The old boy has just volunteered to provide the evidence.

Carry on, old boy, we're all ears.


Wait, is this a closed session?
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #161 - Jun 23rd, 2017 at 9:11pm
 
No.  The 'old boy' is Frank...used to post as Soren, referred to as Sore End.

As Frank said the 'evidence is everywhere,' the satirically astute Karnal is inviting him to post that evidence.
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #162 - Jun 23rd, 2017 at 9:13pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 23rd, 2017 at 9:11pm:
No.  The 'old boy' is Frank...used to post as Soren, referred to as Sore End.

As Frank said the 'evidence is everywhere,' the satirically astute Karnal is inviting him to post that evidence.


Haha. Sore End... Like it.
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #163 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 1:45pm
 
Quote:
I wasn't laughing at the idea the caravaners were victims. I was laughing at such blinkered historical revisionism that identifies the caravan raids as the cause of the war - and not the forced eviction of peaceful muslims from their homes and ceasing of their property, which as far as I can tell you still prefer to pretend didn't happen.


So the Meccans attacked Medina because they kicked Muhammad out of Mecca, not because Muhammad had been robbing and murdering Meccan traders?

Quote:
He wasn't the victim FD - he had just won a great and defining battle. However he did just barely see off a real existential threat to his people. I think you are still having difficulty acknowledging that point correct? You're still persisting with the argument that 10 thousand men attempting to overrun your city and homeland doesn't pose an existential threat yes?


My point was that, contrary to your assertion, the Jews were not conspiring to commit genocide. Muhammad committed genocide, at the request of an angel apparently. None of your excuse change that.

Quote:
But if you didn't, then I don't see how you could have much problem with him dealing out punishment for treason - which has universally been death.


It is Muhammad's collective punishment and genocide that I have an issue with, and your Islam-inspired support for murder, collective punishment and genocide, including inventing your own propaganda against the Jews, and your desperate effort to change the topic and make it about anything other than murder, collective punishment and genocide. Did I mention the murder, collective punishment and genocide?

Quote:
Certainly not the high shrill faux outrage, crocodile tears for jews we've had to endure for about 4 years straight.


Are you saying I actually support genocide?
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #164 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 2:04pm
 
No, FD, but you unequivocably support slavery, as you've shown.

Freeeeedom, innit.
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