4. The Torah, the foundational text of the Jews, incites wholesale violence, slaughter, torture and barbarity.             

Everybody knows this.             

Getting "Old Testament" on someone means to overcome someone through hardship and torture.             

There are specific instructions in the Old Testament on which behaviours deserve execution and the mode of execution.               

There is specific encouragement to go out and kill other tribes and seize their land, women and livestock.             

There are exemplars, such as King David, held up as warrior role models.             

And finally, the Jews are exhempt from any universal justice in this regard because they're (a) following G_d's orders and (b) they're G_d's chosen people.             

"There are exemplars, such as King David, held up as warrior role models."

No.

The God of Israel [the God of the O.T.] disallowed David, to build a Holy national temple, to the name of the God of Israel, "because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight."


1 Chronicles 22:7
And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God:
8  But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.


1 Chronicles 28:3
But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.




Karnal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 9:56pm:



Leviticus 11:44
For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy:....


Leviticus 19:2
Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy.


Leviticus 20:26
And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.


Deuteronomy 4:5
Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
6  Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
7  For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
8  And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?



Exodus 25:8
And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.

The people, were to be the 'sanctuary', of their God!


Exodus 29:45
And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.


James 4:8
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you....

Grendel wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 10:57am:


How about Australia, The US and U.K, Grendel? Do they count?

1. Yes, FD,  Judaism is not a proselytising religion. Jewish law is for the Jews and their slaves.

2. You're confusing Jewish doctrine with secular Zionism., a 19th century cause. Jewish doctrine is so tied up in the notion of a Jewish state that for much of their history, the Pharisees would not allow kings. The modern state of Israel was influenced by rifts between secular and Orthodox Zionists.

3. Escape from slavery is a tenant for Jews, but not those they conquered and enslaved. One of Jesus's teachings was, slaves, be nice to your masters and vice versa. Slaves were a vital part of Jewish households, as was the domestic servitude of women.

4. The Torah, the foundational text of the Jews, incites wholesale violence, slaughter, torture and barbarity. Everybody knows this. Getting "Old Testament" on someone means to overcome someone through hardship and torture. There are specific instructions in the Old Testament on which behaviours deserve execution and the mode of execution. There is specific encouragement to go out and kill other tribes and seize their land, women and livestock. There are exemplars, such as King David, held up as warrior role models. And finally, the Jews are exhempt from any universal justice in this regard because they're (a) following G_d's orders and (b) they're G_d's chosen people.

The Old Testament is an amazing, poetic book, rich in meaning and depth. This is not a criticism of the Torah or its historical characters, who struggle with G_d's laws and plans. There is an incredible amount of wisdom in the OT.

Now I don't understand the Koran, it's history or its context too well, but it makes a number of references to the Old and New Testaments. There are, without a doubt, less instructions to kill, mame and enslave others than the Torah The Old Testament even encourages animal cruelty, which the Koran seeks to overturn.

If I was you, FD, I'd have a look at the Old Testament to try to understand what you're writing about here. You have not come close to explaining our riddle: if Muslims are violent because of their religious text, why aren't Jews far worse?

I look forward to us all putting our brains together and coming up with a credible answer.

If so....  here's a good article to read.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/sharia-law-uk-britains-jewish-beth-din-court-example-mu...

Then we can have a good argument about Multiculturalism and why we should abolish it.

But Frei also sees evidence of Islamophobia in the criticism of Sharia. He said: "There is a demonisation of the community. You just have to mention the word Sharia and the first thing people think of is hands being cut off. It is rubbish: it might be a criminal aspect of Sharia law but it is not Sharia in general. It has become a bogey word for the British public – you just mention Sharia and you get a headline."