freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 9:19pm:


What? I only got a passing reference?

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 9:19pm:


There are quotes in the Torah calling for the murder of apostates, and 'kill any person who curses his mother or father...' The Torah is known as the Law, and the purpose was the guide the Jewish community.

HOWEVER,

As I have just recently researched, the Jewish people also have a tradition of the Oral Torah, which they believe was transmitted orally by God but not recorded in the Torah (see Oral Torah on Wikipedia/Google). The oral torah is compiled in the form of the Talmud, which gives explanations and interpretations of the written torah. Now, the oral torah was developed due to the Jews being expelled from Jerusalem by the Romans; it suited a diaspora community. Also, the oral torah opened up a tradition whereby Rabbis can interpret meanings within the Torah with divine sanction. The Orthodox Jews hold the Talmud as authoritative, whereas Reform Jews believe that individual Rabbis can interpret the Torah according to modern times.

This tradition doesn't exist in Sunni Islam, but exists in Shi'a Islam. If you look at the Ismaili Shia Muslim community, they tend to be more progressive in their beliefs because they have structured authority (in the leader of Aga Khan) who can issue interpretations on the Quran.

Karnal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 9:56pm:


The issue here mainly is WHAT people believe, not necessarily what's in the scripture. I agree that there is a 'straighter line' from scripture to violence in the Quran that in any other Monotheistic religion, and that with 'uneducated' eyes, it can be easy to take the verses literally. However, given the behaviour of Ismailis and other Shia sects, it seems to be that authority has a huge role to play in belief. It ultimately comes down to authority. In the case of Sunni Islam, the authority is vested in the Quran and Hadith, which is in itself a problem, given that the Quran when read out of context contains belligerent verses.

I actually believe that Shia tradition is the answer here. If the majority of the world Muslims were Shiite and not Sunni, I don't think we'd have such a widespread problem as we had today.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 3:59pm:


You know, I actually didn't know that Gandalf was a Muslim until like two weeks ago.

I don't know why you'd need a hierarchical model to interpret the Koran. The Protestant reformation was about getting Bible education to everyone so they could read and think for themselves.

This is not all good, however. It inspired fundamentalists to take the Bible word for word. There was a move away from the monastic tradition of prayer and silence. A literalist form of religion took over.

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If Gandalf was easily offended, given the posts his way from Effendi some others, he'd had been out of here years ago.

To his eternal credit, he maintains a non-abusive, and polite position.

Karnal wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 4:08pm:


If anything, the protestant reformation emphasized Paul's teachings and theology over other theologies, for e.g. like that of James who focused on deeds over belief - that's why Luther called the Epistle of James 'an Epistle of the straw'.

Karnal wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 4:08pm:


Correct. And as the NT (solely, not counting the OT) is not as violent as the Quran, the resulting practices became more benign.

Of course we can abolish multiculti karnal, we simply reinstated integration or assimilation as our settlement policy and those unhappy can leave.

Der.. the policies we had before Multiculturalism...

Grendel wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 5:23pm:


No.  Man up Grendel.  Enough of the tap dances in custard.  It is a simple question, using your own terms.

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