Quote:


I reckon a half-hour Workshop of 10-12 year olds would have come up with them.

Nothing particularly penetrating or beyond simple stuff in them.

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:


True, there are. It's ultimately a matter of degree.

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:


No, I'm making the distinction between a religion like Jainism, which has non-violence as its core principal, but is not really a true monotheistic religion.

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:


I'm willing to meet a Muslim halfway by agreeing that the violent verses are within the context of self-defence. It's important to understand that 'pre-emptive attacks' can be used as a method for self-defence - i.e. when Muhammad raided caravans, one could argue that such preemptive strike was 'defensive' in nature.

What I can't reconcile is the views of women, particularly wife-beating (I'm not sure if this is in the Torah), and the view of sexual slavery. I also cannot reconcile the Hadith attributing to Muhammad the command to kill or beat women.

Some people might say 'oh, well that was the society at the time'. Was it, really? We like to absolve historical characters of their flaws by saying that 'it was the prevailing attitude of their time' but I don't really think that (in any case) it applied to most people. Most men were respectful of women in any age or time from an INDIVIDUAL level.

Auggie wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 5:29pm:



No it's not.


613 laws in the OT:

jump to 5:45

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 11:02pm:


Ok, I know that this is what the esoteric claim is, but I'm talking about the every day understanding of the law in 1st century Israel among peasants. I highly doubt that Paul and the NT were referring to all 613 laws, given that those laws were codified until much later, I believe. Either way, the average peasant in 1st century Israel would've known all 613 laws. That's why God 'simplified it' to 10.

Karnal wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 11:33pm:


Well, I just did the research. The 613 laws weren't actually codified until the 3rd century, so how much of that was around when Jesus was alive is debatable at best.

Another point of view could be that the 'law' was used in the context of 'deeds' - i.e. doing things. Paul strongly condemned doing deeds as the only way into Heaven (given his personal experience), and so the law could've been used in this context.

Regarding Jesus, I don't think he rabinically-trained, although it's possible. What makes you think that?

Really?
Can't you ever just make a straight forward point K?

Here is one example explanation.
Luke 2:40-52

40  And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

41  Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.

42  And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

43  And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.

44  But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day’s journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.

45  And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him.

46  And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

47  And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

48  And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?

50  And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

51  And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

52  And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.


It's obvious Jesus had a great knowledge at a very young age.  Merely a man? 

Grendel wrote on Jun 18^th, 2017 at 4:42pm:


The integration model was specifically designed for multiculturalism G.

It acknowledged that we can no longer pretend that people from different cultures can simply stop being who they are culturally and "assimilate" into the dominant culture. Multiculti and integration work hand in hand. In fact I don't know anyone who supports multiculti who doesn't advocate an integrationist model. But it is one of the common strawmen that critics like to bounce around.