Australian Politics Forum - Islam - the Left looks away.

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Islam - the Left looks away. Reply #150 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:18am Ah the zealots, Prog left and Useful idiots still up to no good I see. Oh dear, even that idiot Karnal is still badgering away like a whirling Dervish. So many posts and not one bit of sense karnal, even for you that's hard to beat eh.
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Lastone

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #151 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 8:55am

Frank wrote on Jul 15^th, 2017 at 6:56pm:

The Lefty looneys were poo-pooing the wall Israel had to build to defend itself against Muslim terror.
And then came the anti-Muslim barriers all over the West:

Now you see here I have to disagree with you. The conflict between Israel and the Palestinian is one of competing Nationalisms. The Palestinians contend that the Jewish homeland was built on Palestinian Land.To mislabel the situation in Israel and the "Occupied Territories" as "Muslim Terror" shows a total lack of understanding of the situation.

Firstly, international Law states that a people denied the right to self determination are considered to be acting in self-defence should they take up arms. The denial of the right to self determination is considered to be the act of aggression. Also under international Law people under Military occupation from a foreign power are entitled to resist that occupation.

You will note that during the U.S. occupation of Iraq, groups and individuals that resisted the occupation were called insurgents, not terrorist. I will agree with you that driving a truck into a crowded street in London or Paris is and act of terrorism, but driving a truck into a military check point in the Palestinian occupied territories is a legitimate form of resistance under international Law.

Now some propagandist would label it as an act of terrorism because it suits their political agenda.However to label the Palestine Israel conflict as Muslim terrorism would be like suggesting the American Revolution was simply a puritan revolt.

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« Last Edit: Aug 13^th, 2017 at 9:05am by Lastone »

I am yet to see a trickle down lift anyone up

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BigOl64

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #152 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 9:02am

Karnal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:40pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:25pm:

I am only addressing what I posted, the points I made and the deliberate misreprentation which was done hilariously by Gandalf posting about lies and mendacity.

Taqiyya innit. Grin

I don't think anyone can actually understand the points you say you made, Secret, but G probably has more integrity than any other member of this board.

He's balanced, patient, rational, insightful, always knowledgable about what he speaks, and he never lies. Never ever. If he's ever made a mistake here, he's apologised like a grown-up and and taken it on board.

The old boy is no more than a hack. He's incapable of an independent thought, and he couldn't lie straight in bed. His posts are, at best, mindless repetitions of the same 5 posts he's made since 2001.

He won't lie that's for sure, but he will refuse to answer a question because the truth is so unpalatable and would turn people against him and his religion.

If you were really being honest you would accept that an act of omission (not answering) is also considered a lie by most people.

They fact he is very good at it and allows the gullible to be drawn in, shows he is very skillful and you lot are well ..........

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Karnal

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #153 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:23pm

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 9:02am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:40pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:25pm:

I am only addressing what I posted, the points I made and the deliberate misreprentation which was done hilariously by Gandalf posting about lies and mendacity.

Taqiyya innit. Grin

I don't think anyone can actually understand the points you say you made, Secret, but G probably has more integrity than any other member of this board.

He's balanced, patient, rational, insightful, always knowledgable about what he speaks, and he never lies. Never ever. If he's ever made a mistake here, he's apologised like a grown-up and and taken it on board.

The old boy is no more than a hack. He's incapable of an independent thought, and he couldn't lie straight in bed. His posts are, at best, mindless repetitions of the same 5 posts he's made since 2001.

He won't lie that's for sure, but he will refuse to answer a question because the truth is so unpalatable and would turn people against him and his religion.

In all the years I've read G's posts here, he has never avoided a question or evaded a point. Not once. He regularly admits problems with his religion and its followers.

Compare this with Frank, who is now lying low - or FD, who refuses to answer nearly every question put to him.

Both of these posters are not religious followers. G is. What does that say about your sky fairy thesis?

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Karnal

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #154 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:27pm

Lastone wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 8:55am:

Frank wrote on Jul 15^th, 2017 at 6:56pm:

The Lefty looneys were poo-pooing the wall Israel had to build to defend itself against Muslim terror.
And then came the anti-Muslim barriers all over the West:

Now you see here I have to disagree with you. The conflict between Israel and the Palestinian is one of competing Nationalisms. The Palestinians contend that the Jewish homeland was built on Palestinian Land.To mislabel the situation in Israel and the "Occupied Territories" as "Muslim Terror" shows a total lack of understanding of the situation.

Firstly, international Law states that a people denied the right to self determination are considered to be acting in self-defence should they take up arms. The denial of the right to self determination is considered to be the act of aggression. Also under international Law people under Military occupation from a foreign power are entitled to resist that occupation.

You will note that during the U.S. occupation of Iraq, groups and individuals that resisted the occupation were called insurgents, not terrorist. I will agree with you that driving a truck into a crowded street in London or Paris is and act of terrorism, but driving a truck into a military check point in the Palestinian occupied territories is a legitimate form of resistance under international Law.

Now some propagandist would label it as an act of terrorism because it suits their political agenda.However to label the Palestine Israel conflict as Muslim terrorism would be like suggesting the American Revolution was simply a puritan revolt.

Thanks for an insightful post, Lapstone. The ultimate point is that Israel's wall is built on illegally occupied land. Israel has ignored UN resolutions for years. It's in breech of international law.

Frank will hiss and froth and carry on like an old bag lady, but this is the law. Yes, it's complicated, but until Israel is ready to sit down and negotiate its illegal territories, they will face resistance.

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« Last Edit: Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:37pm by Karnal »

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BigOl64

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #155 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:30pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:23pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 9:02am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:40pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:25pm:

I am only addressing what I posted, the points I made and the deliberate misreprentation which was done hilariously by Gandalf posting about lies and mendacity.

Taqiyya innit. Grin

I don't think anyone can actually understand the points you say you made, Secret, but G probably has more integrity than any other member of this board.

He's balanced, patient, rational, insightful, always knowledgable about what he speaks, and he never lies. Never ever. If he's ever made a mistake here, he's apologised like a grown-up and and taken it on board.

The old boy is no more than a hack. He's incapable of an independent thought, and he couldn't lie straight in bed. His posts are, at best, mindless repetitions of the same 5 posts he's made since 2001.

He won't lie that's for sure, but he will refuse to answer a question because the truth is so unpalatable and would turn people against him and his religion.

In all the years I've read G's posts here, he has never avoided a question or evaded a point. Not once. He regularly admits problems with his religion and its followers.

Compare this with Frank, who is now lying low - or FD, who refuses to answer nearly every question put to him.

Both of these posters are not religious followers. G is. What does that say about your sky fairy thesis?

He has avoided a few of mine over the last few weeks alone. He will answer easy questions before and after, but not mine.

Not that I give a fkk, but I do object to you blowing sunshine up his arse about something that is patently untrue.

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Frank

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #156 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:33pm

Lastone wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 8:55am:

Frank wrote on Jul 15^th, 2017 at 6:56pm:

The Lefty looneys were poo-pooing the wall Israel had to build to defend itself against Muslim terror.
And then came the anti-Muslim barriers all over the West:

Now you see here I have to disagree with you. The conflict between Israel and the Palestinian is one of competing Nationalisms. The Palestinians contend that the Jewish homeland was built on Palestinian Land.To mislabel the situation in Israel and the "Occupied Territories" as "Muslim Terror" shows a total lack of understanding of the situation.

Firstly, international Law states that a people denied the right to self determination are considered to be acting in self-defence should they take up arms. The denial of the right to self determination is considered to be the act of aggression. Also under international Law people under Military occupation from a foreign power are entitled to resist that occupation.

You will note that during the U.S. occupation of Iraq, groups and individuals that resisted the occupation were called insurgents, not terrorist. I will agree with you that driving a truck into a crowded street in London or Paris is and act of terrorism, but driving a truck into a military check point in the Palestinian occupied territories is a legitimate form of resistance under international Law.

Now some propagandist would label it as an act of terrorism because it suits their political agenda.However to label the Palestine Israel conflict as Muslim terrorism would be like suggesting the American Revolution was simply a puritan revolt.

There was no palestine as a country when israel was established and recognised by the un. Jordan also occupied the west bank until 1967. Nobody complained because jordan was palestine from 1948.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Karnal

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #157 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:38pm

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:30pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:23pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 9:02am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:40pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:25pm:

I am only addressing what I posted, the points I made and the deliberate misreprentation which was done hilariously by Gandalf posting about lies and mendacity.

Taqiyya innit. Grin

I don't think anyone can actually understand the points you say you made, Secret, but G probably has more integrity than any other member of this board.

He's balanced, patient, rational, insightful, always knowledgable about what he speaks, and he never lies. Never ever. If he's ever made a mistake here, he's apologised like a grown-up and and taken it on board.

The old boy is no more than a hack. He's incapable of an independent thought, and he couldn't lie straight in bed. His posts are, at best, mindless repetitions of the same 5 posts he's made since 2001.

He won't lie that's for sure, but he will refuse to answer a question because the truth is so unpalatable and would turn people against him and his religion.

In all the years I've read G's posts here, he has never avoided a question or evaded a point. Not once. He regularly admits problems with his religion and its followers.

Compare this with Frank, who is now lying low - or FD, who refuses to answer nearly every question put to him.

Both of these posters are not religious followers. G is. What does that say about your sky fairy thesis?

He has avoided a few of mine over the last few weeks alone. He will answer easy questions before and after, but not mine.

Not that I give a fkk, but I do object to you blowing sunshine up his arse about something that is patently untrue.

Which questions?

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BigOl64

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #158 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:42pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:38pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:30pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:23pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 9:02am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:40pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:25pm:

I am only addressing what I posted, the points I made and the deliberate misreprentation which was done hilariously by Gandalf posting about lies and mendacity.

Taqiyya innit. Grin

I don't think anyone can actually understand the points you say you made, Secret, but G probably has more integrity than any other member of this board.

He's balanced, patient, rational, insightful, always knowledgable about what he speaks, and he never lies. Never ever. If he's ever made a mistake here, he's apologised like a grown-up and and taken it on board.

The old boy is no more than a hack. He's incapable of an independent thought, and he couldn't lie straight in bed. His posts are, at best, mindless repetitions of the same 5 posts he's made since 2001.

He won't lie that's for sure, but he will refuse to answer a question because the truth is so unpalatable and would turn people against him and his religion.

In all the years I've read G's posts here, he has never avoided a question or evaded a point. Not once. He regularly admits problems with his religion and its followers.

Compare this with Frank, who is now lying low - or FD, who refuses to answer nearly every question put to him.

Both of these posters are not religious followers. G is. What does that say about your sky fairy thesis?

He has avoided a few of mine over the last few weeks alone. He will answer easy questions before and after, but not mine.

Not that I give a fkk, but I do object to you blowing sunshine up his arse about something that is patently untrue.

Which questions?

You expect me to remember exactly which questions I asked a specific person over a period of a few weeks?

Yeah I work my way back through every post and get back to you.

Just in case you are of any doubt about me answering your question, it isn't going to happen, don't want you getting your combat panties all bunched up.

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Karnal

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #159 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:49pm

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:33pm:

Lastone wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 8:55am:

Frank wrote on Jul 15^th, 2017 at 6:56pm:

The Lefty looneys were poo-pooing the wall Israel had to build to defend itself against Muslim terror.
And then came the anti-Muslim barriers all over the West:

Now you see here I have to disagree with you. The conflict between Israel and the Palestinian is one of competing Nationalisms. The Palestinians contend that the Jewish homeland was built on Palestinian Land.To mislabel the situation in Israel and the "Occupied Territories" as "Muslim Terror" shows a total lack of understanding of the situation.

Firstly, international Law states that a people denied the right to self determination are considered to be acting in self-defence should they take up arms. The denial of the right to self determination is considered to be the act of aggression. Also under international Law people under Military occupation from a foreign power are entitled to resist that occupation.

You will note that during the U.S. occupation of Iraq, groups and individuals that resisted the occupation were called insurgents, not terrorist. I will agree with you that driving a truck into a crowded street in London or Paris is and act of terrorism, but driving a truck into a military check point in the Palestinian occupied territories is a legitimate form of resistance under international Law.

Now some propagandist would label it as an act of terrorism because it suits their political agenda.However to label the Palestine Israel conflict as Muslim terrorism would be like suggesting the American Revolution was simply a puritan revolt.

There was no palestine as a country when israel was established and recognised by the un. Jordan also occupied the west bank until 1967. Nobody complained because jordan was palestine from 1948.

Abstraction 1: squishy, reflexive, yeah-but-no-but mendacity. Israel's borders were established in 1948, as every schoolboy knows. It captured Jerusalem, the West Bank and other territory in 1967, and despite numerous UN resolutions, has refused to get out.

Your other abstractions will include your same old points like Israel needing this territory to defend itself and God promising these territories to Israel in 4000-odd BC. Ultimately, you'll say that might is right.

If you can throw in an "I'm not racist, Islam is not a race," you'll cover the lot.

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Karnal

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #160 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:53pm

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:42pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:38pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:30pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:23pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 9:02am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:40pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:25pm:

I am only addressing what I posted, the points I made and the deliberate misreprentation which was done hilariously by Gandalf posting about lies and mendacity.

Taqiyya innit. Grin

I don't think anyone can actually understand the points you say you made, Secret, but G probably has more integrity than any other member of this board.

He's balanced, patient, rational, insightful, always knowledgable about what he speaks, and he never lies. Never ever. If he's ever made a mistake here, he's apologised like a grown-up and and taken it on board.

The old boy is no more than a hack. He's incapable of an independent thought, and he couldn't lie straight in bed. His posts are, at best, mindless repetitions of the same 5 posts he's made since 2001.

He won't lie that's for sure, but he will refuse to answer a question because the truth is so unpalatable and would turn people against him and his religion.

In all the years I've read G's posts here, he has never avoided a question or evaded a point. Not once. He regularly admits problems with his religion and its followers.

Compare this with Frank, who is now lying low - or FD, who refuses to answer nearly every question put to him.

Both of these posters are not religious followers. G is. What does that say about your sky fairy thesis?

He has avoided a few of mine over the last few weeks alone. He will answer easy questions before and after, but not mine.

Not that I give a fkk, but I do object to you blowing sunshine up his arse about something that is patently untrue.

Which questions?

You expect me to remember exactly which questions I asked a specific person over a period of a few weeks?

Of course. How do you know they went unanswered? You've forgotten which threads you even asked them in.

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Frank

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #161 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:53pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:27pm:

Lastone wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 8:55am:

Frank wrote on Jul 15^th, 2017 at 6:56pm:

The Lefty looneys were poo-pooing the wall Israel had to build to defend itself against Muslim terror.
And then came the anti-Muslim barriers all over the West:

Now you see here I have to disagree with you. The conflict between Israel and the Palestinian is one of competing Nationalisms. The Palestinians contend that the Jewish homeland was built on Palestinian Land.To mislabel the situation in Israel and the "Occupied Territories" as "Muslim Terror" shows a total lack of understanding of the situation.

Firstly, international Law states that a people denied the right to self determination are considered to be acting in self-defence should they take up arms. The denial of the right to self determination is considered to be the act of aggression. Also under international Law people under Military occupation from a foreign power are entitled to resist that occupation.

You will note that during the U.S. occupation of Iraq, groups and individuals that resisted the occupation were called insurgents, not terrorist. I will agree with you that driving a truck into a crowded street in London or Paris is and act of terrorism, but driving a truck into a military check point in the Palestinian occupied territories is a legitimate form of resistance under international Law.

Now some propagandist would label it as an act of terrorism because it suits their political agenda.However to label the Palestine Israel conflict as Muslim terrorism would be like suggesting the American Revolution was simply a puritan revolt.

Thanks for an insightful post, Lapstone. The ultimate point is that Israel's wall is built on illegally occupied land. Israel has ignored UN resolutions for years. It's in breech of international law.

Frank will hiss and froth and carry on like an old bag lady, but this is the law. Yes, it's complicated, but until Israel is ready to sit down and negotiate its illegal territories, they will face resistance.

Hitting back at your illegal attackers (1967) and defending yourself against them (wall) is not "illegal", it is the only sane thing. If the arabs hadnt atttacked israel in 67 the West bank would be still occupied by jordan - or might have become palestine by now. But for the muslims the very existence of israel is unbearable ( not the non-existence of palastine.)

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Karnal

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #162 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:58pm

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:53pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 12:27pm:

Lastone wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 8:55am:

Frank wrote on Jul 15^th, 2017 at 6:56pm:

The Lefty looneys were poo-pooing the wall Israel had to build to defend itself against Muslim terror.
And then came the anti-Muslim barriers all over the West:

Now you see here I have to disagree with you. The conflict between Israel and the Palestinian is one of competing Nationalisms. The Palestinians contend that the Jewish homeland was built on Palestinian Land.To mislabel the situation in Israel and the "Occupied Territories" as "Muslim Terror" shows a total lack of understanding of the situation.

Firstly, international Law states that a people denied the right to self determination are considered to be acting in self-defence should they take up arms. The denial of the right to self determination is considered to be the act of aggression. Also under international Law people under Military occupation from a foreign power are entitled to resist that occupation.

You will note that during the U.S. occupation of Iraq, groups and individuals that resisted the occupation were called insurgents, not terrorist. I will agree with you that driving a truck into a crowded street in London or Paris is and act of terrorism, but driving a truck into a military check point in the Palestinian occupied territories is a legitimate form of resistance under international Law.

Now some propagandist would label it as an act of terrorism because it suits their political agenda.However to label the Palestine Israel conflict as Muslim terrorism would be like suggesting the American Revolution was simply a puritan revolt.

Thanks for an insightful post, Lapstone. The ultimate point is that Israel's wall is built on illegally occupied land. Israel has ignored UN resolutions for years. It's in breech of international law.

Frank will hiss and froth and carry on like an old bag lady, but this is the law. Yes, it's complicated, but until Israel is ready to sit down and negotiate its illegal territories, they will face resistance.

Hitting back at your illegal attackers (1967) and defending yourself against them (wall) is not "illegal", it is the only sane thing. If the arabs hadnt atttacked israel in 67 the West bank would be still occupied by jordan - or might have become palestine by now. But for the muslims the very existence of israel is unbearable ( not the non-existence of palastine.)

While moot, you make a worthy point. Israel may well face resistance if it moved back to its original borders, but it will always face resistance if it doesn't. Israel occupies illegal territory.

This is an existential problem for Israel, as every Israeli schoolboy knows.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #163 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 1:51pm

Secret Wars wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 8:14pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:28pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 2:30pm:

Or maybe on viewing the lessons from Europe there is a growing awareness that tolerating the intolerant is a waste of frigging time and dangerous.

You're probably right. And yet I have a soft spot for Frank, I just don't have the heart to close the door on him completely - even though, as you point out, indulging his lies and mendacity is indeed a waste of frigging time and dangerous.

Karnal is hopping about running a desperate distraction and hearing voices as per usual, but is this an example of the taqiyya I have heard about?

Do all cultists lie? Why the misreprentation, lies and mendacity Gandalf?

Sooo Mr High and Mighty, brave warrior against the misrepresentations, lies and mendacity of the dastardly "cultists" as you sneeringly refer me as - have you actually bothered to read any of the crap Frank posts? In fact have you bothered to notice any of the racist, bigoted crap against muslims that is posted here on a daily basis? I mean, you're obviously so very concerned about lies and mendacity right? I just find it extraordinary that someone could waltz into the Islam forum, lecture us about lies and mendacity - and actually *NOT* be talking about Frank and his ilk.

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Secret Wars

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #164 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:22pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 1:51pm:

Sooo Mr High and Mighty, brave warrior against the misrepresentations, lies and mendacity of the dastardly "cultists" as you sneeringly refer me as - have you actually bothered to read any of the crap Frank posts? In fact have you bothered to notice any of the racist, bigoted crap against muslims that is posted here on a daily basis? I mean, you're obviously so very concerned about lies and mendacity right? I just find it extraordinary that someone could waltz into the Islam forum, lecture us about lies and mendacity - and actually *NOT* be talking about Frank and his ilk.

You got an issue with Frank or what he says, take it up with him. I am sure he can speak for himself. As was I speaking for myself.

If you and your wingman want to misrepresent my post or conflate it with someone else's posts expect to be called on it. You are free to respond or to ignore, you are even free to sneeringly call me a high and mighty warrior ( or is it only your sneering is allowable?), you are not however free to fictionalise what I stated and not have me respond by calling you on your bullshit. Or would you prefer taqiyya as a more culturally appropriate riposte to your lies and mendacity?

As for the rest of your blubbering rubbish, within the forum rules I will waltz in where I like and comment as I like, you do not dictate to me that I should respond to the posts of others nor how I should respond to the posts of others.

You of course, in your own Islamic sandpit are free to ban me, though of course a better option from you and your sidekick would have been to simply not lie and misrepresent my post.

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