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Islam - the Left looks away. (Read 40109 times)
freediver
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #255 - Nov 12th, 2022 at 3:59pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2022 at 1:15pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 23rd, 2022 at 1:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18th, 2022 at 1:34pm:
You premise is that the US has had some sort of meaningful effect in reducing war crimes.


Not necessarily. If it has done nothing, you wouldn't have any difficulty answering the question.


My answer is "I don't believe any country has done anything useful on that front". So yeah, its not difficult. But I'm not buying into your premise that the US has done wonders in effectively reducing war crimes - which I obviously reject.

Quote:
What about outlawing them and punishing the perpetrators?

How common do you think widespread rape and pillage is during war, compared to the bad old days when it was considered an inevitable consequence?


You can't possibly be serious. Targeting civilians (aka war crimes) has gone from something that once was exceptional, to basically a normal and accepted part of war. Just do 5 minutes of research to see how much more civilians are impacted by war now than they were in the past.


Is punishing people who commit war crimes a useful way to reduce war crimes?
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #256 - Nov 14th, 2022 at 10:23pm
 
... and the stars and the moon draw the curtains of cloud across their faces so they do not have to look ....

https://au.news.yahoo.com/frightening-moment-bomb-explodes-instanbul-terror-2112...

"Six people have been killed and 53 others have been wounded by an explosion that rocked a busy pedestrian street in central Istanbul in a frightening incident President Tayyip Erdogan called a bomb attack that "smells like terrorism".

Ambulances raced to the scene on the packed Istiklal Avenue, a popular tourist destination, which police had quickly cordoned off on Sunday (local time). The area, in the Beyoglu district of Turkey's largest city, had been crowded as usual at the weekend with shoppers, tourists and families.

Video footage shared online and verified by Reuters showed the moment the blast occurred in the centre of the avenue, sending debris into the air and leaving several people lying on the ground.

Initial reports suggested a female suicide bomber may be responsible but it remains unclear. Turkish justice minister Bekir Bozdag told pro-government broadcaster A Haber that investigators were looking into a woman who sat on a bench by the scene for about 40 minutes before the blast. Authorities did not know the identity of the woman.

No one has yet claimed responsibility and it is unclear what group might be behind the attack. Turkish cities have previously been targeted by Kurdish separatists, Islamist militants and other groups.

"Efforts to defeat Turkey and the Turkish people through terrorism will fail today just as they did yesterday and as they will fail again tomorrow," Erdogan told a news conference.

"Our people can rest assured that the culprits behind the attack will be punished as they deserve," he said, adding that initial information suggested "a woman played a part" in it.

"It would be wrong to say this is undoubtedly a terrorist attack but the initial developments and initial intelligence from my governor is that it smells like terrorism," Erdogan said.

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #257 - Nov 15th, 2022 at 8:48am
 
Meanwhile in New Zealand

New Zealand: Muslim says he wants to kill non-Muslims, scouts locations for jihad massacre


An Auckland man told a person on social media he wanted to kill “non-Muslims” and began planning a terror attack in New Zealand, Stuff can now report.

The 20-year-old appeared at the High Court at Auckland on Wednesday, where he admitted threatening to kill, two charges of distributing objectionable publications and six counts of possessing objectionable material.

The man was charged last September and initially appeared in the North Shore District Court, days after the LynnMall terror attack.

Stuff can now report the man, who was then 19, came to the attention of police as he chatted about Isis and shared videos depicting extreme violence.

He told a person on social media that if he couldn’t travel to Syria and support Isis, his plan B was to carry out an attack in Auckland, according to the summary of facts.

The man discussed at length various options for the attack, including a knife attack, vehicle attack or and explosive attack.

He said the bombing attack in Manchester 2017 was fully justified.

He believed terror attacks on non-Muslims were justified and began to prepare an attack, where he hoped to kill between 20 and 30 people.


The man also researched about 80 locations around Auckland which included religious institutions, shopping malls, cafés, restaurants and the airport.

He started putting together a kit which included knives and camouflage.

After the New Lynn terror attack on September 3, the defendant messaged the person on social media saying he felt inspired and wanted to bring the attack forward.

He took screenshots of Al-Qaeda propaganda literature, searched for instructions on how to make a bomb and how and what to use to stab people.

When police executed a search warrant in September 2021, they found his Google cloud account had hundreds of videos, including body-cam footage of a terror attack in Germany, the Christchurch mosque attacker’s manifesto and other Isis videos.

In another video the defendant spoke of his allegiance to the Islamic State and claimed retribution against the New Zealand Government.

“The defendant states that he is ready for Martrydom and will commit a terror attack after he has done more research.”…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300735437/man-planned-to-carry-out-terror-attack-in-auckland-inspired-by-previous-mall-attack

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/teen-who-threatened-to-kill-non-muslims-had-plan-to-attack-auckland-documents-show/CXYRBH24TNB3RD7HOVLWFZLWGU/

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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #258 - Nov 15th, 2022 at 12:35pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 15th, 2022 at 8:48am:
He told a person on social media that if he couldn’t travel to Syria and support Isis, his plan B was to carry out an attack in Auckland, according to the summary of facts.

The man discussed at length various options for the attack, including a knife attack, vehicle attack or and explosive attack.

He said the bombing attack in Manchester 2017 was fully justified.


Yeah and he also talked to an under-cover officer online ... some muslims can't help being idiots

The real danger will come however when muslim terrorists stop using electronic devices altogether



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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #259 - Nov 15th, 2022 at 3:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2022 at 3:59pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2022 at 1:15pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 23rd, 2022 at 1:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18th, 2022 at 1:34pm:
You premise is that the US has had some sort of meaningful effect in reducing war crimes.


Not necessarily. If it has done nothing, you wouldn't have any difficulty answering the question.


My answer is "I don't believe any country has done anything useful on that front". So yeah, its not difficult. But I'm not buying into your premise that the US has done wonders in effectively reducing war crimes - which I obviously reject.

Quote:
What about outlawing them and punishing the perpetrators?

How common do you think widespread rape and pillage is during war, compared to the bad old days when it was considered an inevitable consequence?


You can't possibly be serious. Targeting civilians (aka war crimes) has gone from something that once was exceptional, to basically a normal and accepted part of war. Just do 5 minutes of research to see how much more civilians are impacted by war now than they were in the past.


Is punishing people who commit war crimes a useful way to reduce war crimes?


Evidently not.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #260 - Nov 17th, 2022 at 10:08am
 
Is that a pattern I see before me?


...
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #261 - Nov 20th, 2022 at 10:05am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15th, 2022 at 3:02pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2022 at 3:59pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2022 at 1:15pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 23rd, 2022 at 1:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18th, 2022 at 1:34pm:
You premise is that the US has had some sort of meaningful effect in reducing war crimes.


Not necessarily. If it has done nothing, you wouldn't have any difficulty answering the question.


My answer is "I don't believe any country has done anything useful on that front". So yeah, its not difficult. But I'm not buying into your premise that the US has done wonders in effectively reducing war crimes - which I obviously reject.

Quote:
What about outlawing them and punishing the perpetrators?

How common do you think widespread rape and pillage is during war, compared to the bad old days when it was considered an inevitable consequence?


You can't possibly be serious. Targeting civilians (aka war crimes) has gone from something that once was exceptional, to basically a normal and accepted part of war. Just do 5 minutes of research to see how much more civilians are impacted by war now than they were in the past.


Is punishing people who commit war crimes a useful way to reduce war crimes?


Evidently not.


Are you saying you have evidence? Because it sounds like you are making it up. You prefer to lie than admit that America might have actually done something useful.
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #262 - Nov 22nd, 2022 at 10:06am
 
FD you've spent your whole time in this thread framing silly questions built entirely around the premise that it is accepted fact that a) war crimes have decreased and b) the US has been responsible for it. From that you just skip ahead of the discussion and go straight to "why don't you appreciate the US for being so great??"

I see no evidence that war crimes have decreased, let alone that the US has had any effect in decreasing it. So as I said from the beginning, I don't accept the premise of your questions.

Start by convincing me that war crimes have actually decreased to begin with. Then we can discuss the US's role in that, and how effective their alleged anti-war crime measures are.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #263 - Nov 23rd, 2022 at 7:11am
 
Quote:
FD you've spent your whole time in this thread framing silly questions built entirely around the premise that it is accepted


Is this your new tapdance routine for avoiding giving a straight answer to a simple question Gandalf?

Why do you see no evidence? Is it because your eyes are closed?
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #264 - Nov 24th, 2022 at 8:01am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 23rd, 2022 at 7:11am:
Quote:
FD you've spent your whole time in this thread framing silly questions built entirely around the premise that it is accepted


Is this your new tapdance routine for avoiding giving a straight answer to a simple question Gandalf?

Why do you see no evidence? Is it because your eyes are closed?


A "simple question" that has no valid premise.

Speaking of tapdancing - show me the evidence that war crimes have decreased and that the US has had a role in that. If its so easy, you'll have no trouble doing that.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #265 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 9:49am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 24th, 2022 at 8:01am:
freediver wrote on Nov 23rd, 2022 at 7:11am:
Quote:
FD you've spent your whole time in this thread framing silly questions built entirely around the premise that it is accepted


Is this your new tapdance routine for avoiding giving a straight answer to a simple question Gandalf?

Why do you see no evidence? Is it because your eyes are closed?


A "simple question" that has no valid premise.

Speaking of tapdancing - show me the evidence that war crimes have decreased and that the US has had a role in that. If its so easy, you'll have no trouble doing that.


Do you think that soldiers raping women is as common as it was centuries ago?
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #266 - Nov 28th, 2022 at 10:12am
 
I have no reason to believe its less common. "Centuries ago" wars were typically the exclusive domain of the battlefield. Unlike today.

If you think its less common, show me the evidence. Thats your premise, remember. You also need to demonstrate that its due to something the US has done.

There are also a lot more things besides rape that constitute war crimes. Like bombing a country's civilian infrastructure - which you obviously couldn't do "centuries ago".
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« Last Edit: Nov 28th, 2022 at 10:19am by polite_gandalf »  

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #267 - Nov 28th, 2022 at 10:34am
 
I see your fairytale version of history is not confined to Muhammad's rape and pillage.
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #268 - Nov 28th, 2022 at 1:29pm
 
So you really can't provide the evidence FD. Good show.

And don't forget you have not one but two unverified assumptions that need evidence.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam - the Left looks away.
Reply #269 - Nov 28th, 2022 at 2:33pm
 
Gandalf, would you at least agree that attitudes towards rape in war have changed for the better?

Quote:
"Centuries ago" wars were typically the exclusive domain of the battlefield. Unlike today.


Can you explain this magical thinking Gandalf? Are you suggesting that in the past, great armies magically appeared on a battlefield, slaughtered each other, then magically disappeared, without interacting with civilians?

https://reliefweb.int/attachments/b4eed8aa-3184-35e6-9635-c2ffdf454daf/2012Human
SecurityReport-FullText.pdf

Moreover, the evidence suggests that the level of sexual violence worldwide is likely declining, not increasing as claimed by senior UN officials.

There is no doubt that the reporting of conflict-related sexual violence in war zones has increased dramatically over the past two decades as the political salience of the issue has increased. But there is no compelling evidence to support assertions made by senior UN officials and in high-level UN and other official reports, that wartime sexual violence has been increasing.

Moreover, although there are no reliable cross-national trend data on sexual violence in wartime, indirect evidence suggests that its incidence has declined worldwide over the past two decades.
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