Australian Politics Forum - Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship

TheFunPolice

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #105 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 5:32pm

Neferti wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 5:17pm:

QUESTION TIME!

Boy Scouts Jamboree more like.

Watching the MPs that WE elected in GOOD FAITH acting like a bunch of children, is beyond the pale.

The SENATE is a bunch of misfits ... USELESS ... why don't we just do a POLL on various LEGISLATION. Huh?

Australia is not what WE wanted for our children and grandchildren.

Perhaps Trump will cause WW3 .. that might actually be a GOOD thing .... unless you are religious and think otherwise.

...it's time for another election: BARNABY-NET is not what our children deserve!

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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!

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TheFunPolice

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #106 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 5:32pm

Neferti wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 5:17pm:

QUESTION TIME!

Boy Scouts Jamboree more like.

Watching the MPs that WE elected in GOOD FAITH acting like a bunch of children, is beyond the pale.

The SENATE is a bunch of misfits ... USELESS ... why don't we just do a POLL on various LEGISLATION. Huh?

Australia is not what WE wanted for our children and grandchildren.

Perhaps Trump will cause WW3 .. that might actually be a GOOD thing .... unless you are religious and think otherwise.

...it's time for another election: BARNABY-NET is not what our children deserve!

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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!

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Auggie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #107 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:36pm

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 5:01pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 4:21pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 4:09pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:35pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

You can believe the Earth is flat if you like....but I don't, and neither does the High Court.

There is no point double guessing the place where the buck stops.

Face and accept reality.

Posting theories (as you have) based on rubbish fundamentals is disingenuous and while it might make blokes like Bobby feel all warm and fuzzy, it is pipe dream fantasy crap.

Hi Aussie,
& if I'm proven correct - with my bush lawyer skills -
will you apologise to me?

Have you taken a position and explained why?

Yes: because Australia's Head of State is Queen Elizabeth II; NZ's Head of State is Queen Elizabeth II. NZ's Constitution is an Act of the British Parliament, promulgated by the Queen; Australia's Constitution is an Act of the British Parliament, promulgated by the Queen.

Australia and NZ's legal authority derives from the same source: the Sovereign of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Those are the facts, whether you or the High Court likes them or not.

I was asking Bobby.

(And yes....those are the facts....just like it is a fact that New Zealand is a foreign power, and that will be confirmed in the High Court...yet again.)

So, NZ swears allegiance to the same Sovereign as Australia...

Yet, they're a foreign power....

That's biggest contradiction you've ever made.

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Auggie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #108 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:42pm

Francis wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 5:00pm:

I believe you make a strong argument and may be correct. I would assume this will be Barnaby legal argument. If we both pledge to the same queen NZ may not be a foreign nation. But than why are the liberals attacking labor over interfering in a foreign nation government (NZ)?

The plot thickens Shocked

The issue here is that we in Australia want to assert that we're an independent nation like America or France is (never mind they've been through wars to secure their nationhood). It's also true that legally we're not independent.

We are an independent nation in the sense that we are self-governing in all matters; and so when we say 'interfering in the affairs of NZ a foreign country' we're essentially saying that we're interfering in their self-governance.

The High Court made the decision in Sue vs. Hill that citizens of the UK were considered to be that of a foreign power, not because of the Constitution, but because the High Court wishes to assert Australia's independence from UK. The High Court was being extremely political correct. If they had just come out and said: "look folks, UK is not a foreign power because the Framers of the Constitution were British and never meant to construe it as being a foreign power.... and that we are united by common allegiance to the Crown.... I don't like it.... but those are the facts," I bet your bottom dollar the outrage that would've caused would've made us a republic by now.

Let's not claim to be something we're not.

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Aussie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #109 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:42pm

Quote:

So, NZ swears allegiance to the same Sovereign as Australia...

Yet, they're a foreign power....

That's biggest contradiction you've ever made.

No...not at all. NZ is a foreign power as are all of those 12 Nations who also have The Queen as their Head of State.

Even a simple dictionary definition makes NZ a foreign power to any other Nation, even though the Queen is a common factor.

The High Court has decided the issue, and you can hold your breath and go as blue in the face as much as you like......NZ is a foreign power.

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Auggie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #110 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:46pm

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:42pm:

Quote:

So, NZ swears allegiance to the same Sovereign as Australia...

Yet, they're a foreign power....

That's biggest contradiction you've ever made.

No...not at all. NZ is a foreign power as are all of those 12 Nations who also have The Queen has their Head of State.

Even a simple dictionary definition makes NZ a foreign power to any other Nation, even though the Queen is a common factor.

The High Court has decided the issue, and you can hold your breath and go as blue in the face as much as you like......NZ is a foreign power.

Again, are you talking about what 'is' or what it 'should' be.

You've yet to make a convincing argument as to why NZ should be considered a foreign power. You can blue in the face and keep telling me what the High Court says; I know what they've said; I've quoted the case.

The question here is: should NZ be considered a foreign power?

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38535 Gender:	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #111 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:48pm Yes, because it should be and is, even by a simple dictionary definition.
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #112 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:49pm The question also precedes on the basis that the High Court has made the wrong ruling? Has the High Court made the wrong ruling? These are the questions I'm asking you to engage in, not what the has already been done. These are philosophical questions.
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #113 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:50pm Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:48pm: Yes, because it should be and is, even by a simple dictionary definition. What is the simple dictionary definition, pray tell?
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Aussie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #114 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:51pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:49pm:

The question also precedes on the basis that the High Court has made the wrong ruling?

Has the High Court made the wrong ruling?

These are the questions I'm asking you to engage in, not what the has already been done.

These are philosophical questions.

In which I am not interested. We have a Philosophy Section at OzPol, you know.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38535 Gender:	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #115 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:52pm Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:50pm: Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 6:48pm: Yes, because it should be and is, even by a simple dictionary definition. What is the simple dictionary definition, pray tell? You don't have a dictionary?
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Dnarever

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #116 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 7:20pm

lee wrote on Aug 15^th, 2017 at 3:01pm:

"Justices of the High Court are, by nature of their appointment, some of the wisest legal minds in the land. So supposing how they may rule is fraught.

But if the High Court was to start saying everyone entitled to foreign citizenship was ineligible, it would wipe out a swathe of our MPs and senators who have never tried to claim allegiance to any other county.

Surely the Court would have to take into account the practical effect of making that judgment, and the ensuing chaos it would cause.
Could you be a dual citizen without realising?

There are multiple ways you can get citizenship, and the rules are confusing.

Case law too suggests the need to act on any eligibility."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-28/citizenship-grey-area-in-constitution-trip...

Your ABC wouldn't lie; would it?

High Court was to start saying everyone entitled to foreign citizenship was ineligible

it isn't that he is entitled to foreign citizenship, he is a foreign citizen. He is specifically ruled out on Australian politics. He was never legitimately elected.

Do you suggest that Ludlam and Waters should be recalled, they were both in exactly the same position and all the people supporting Baaarnaby wanted them out, that included Australia's Prime Hypocrite Turnbull.

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Bobby.

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #117 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 7:21pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 4:21pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 4:09pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:35pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

You can believe the Earth is flat if you like....but I don't, and neither does the High Court.

There is no point double guessing the place where the buck stops.

Face and accept reality.

Posting theories (as you have) based on rubbish fundamentals is disingenuous and while it might make blokes like Bobby feel all warm and fuzzy, it is pipe dream fantasy crap.

Hi Aussie,
& if I'm proven correct - with my bush lawyer skills -
will you apologise to me?

Have you taken a position and explained why?

Yes: because Australia's Head of State is Queen Elizabeth II; NZ's Head of State is Queen Elizabeth II. NZ's Constitution is an Act of the British Parliament, promulgated by the Queen; Australia's Constitution is an Act of the British Parliament, promulgated by the Queen.

Australia and NZ's legal authority derives from the same source: the Sovereign of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Those are the facts, whether you or the High Court likes them or not.

Correct -
& Barnaby will get out of this thanks to the High Court ruling in his favor.

Aussie will then apologise to me for excellent legal advice
that went unheeded.

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Dnarever

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #118 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 7:23pm

lee wrote on Aug 15^th, 2017 at 3:02pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 15^th, 2017 at 3:00pm:

Sure....but until then....because Joyce admits to the threshold point (foreign citizenship) ....but holds to possible defences.....until those defences are tested in the High Court.....HE OUGHT GET OUT OF CABINET AND NOT BLOODY VOTE IN THE HOUSE.

Until it is tested he is an elected member of the House.

Under section 44 he was never legally elected - he was never entitled to stand for election. He is not and never has been an elected representative.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38535 Gender:	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #119 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 7:23pm On what basis will the High Court rule in his favour Bobby? I have asked you that previously, and you ignored the question.
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