Australian Politics Forum - Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship

Auggie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #60 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 11:49am

Aussie wrote on Aug 15^th, 2017 at 7:53pm:

Bobby:

Quote:

NZ is not a foreign power.
It's part of the same Commonwealth as us.

So is India a part of the Commonwealth. Is it a foreign power Bobby.

India is part of the commonwealth of nations but it's not a commonwealth Realm nation. They are two different things.

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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #61 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:05pm What time is the hangi being served ?
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Aussie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #62 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:09pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 11:49am:

Aussie wrote on Aug 15^th, 2017 at 7:53pm:

Bobby:

Quote:

NZ is not a foreign power.
It's part of the same Commonwealth as us.

So is India a part of the Commonwealth. Is it a foreign power Bobby.

India is part of the commonwealth of nations but it's not a commonwealth Realm nation. They are two different things.

Commonwealth Realm Nations are 100% irrelevant to this discussion, except in your head. Best you acknowledge that, I reckon.

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Auggie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #63 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:34pm

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 11:49am:

Aussie wrote on Aug 15^th, 2017 at 7:53pm:

Bobby:

Quote:

NZ is not a foreign power.
It's part of the same Commonwealth as us.

So is India a part of the Commonwealth. Is it a foreign power Bobby.

India is part of the commonwealth of nations but it's not a commonwealth Realm nation. They are two different things.

Commonwealth Realm Nations are 100% irrelevant to this discussion, except in your head. Best you acknowledge that, I reckon.

Ah no, they're not irrelevant.

You asked if India was considered a foreign power because it's a member of the Commonwealth. I then replied by saying that there are two classes of Commonwealth nations.

The argument that Bobby and I have made repeatedly is that NZ, Canada, UK and the other 13 Realm nations are not, in our opinion, considered 'foreign powers' because we all share the same Head of State; all of our laws are empowered by our Constitutions, which are in turn Acts of the British Parliament, and derive force legally from said Parliament.

If our Head of State was the American President, and had a similar situation in which we were self-governing; and our Constitution was an Act of Congress, would America be considered to be a foreign power?
----
Therefore, Commonwealth Realm are not irrelevant to this discussion.

Australia is not an independent nation; we are a self-governing dominion under Britain, whether you like it or not. If you don't like it, then write a letter to the PM asking for a republican referendum, and vote yes. Until that time, Best you acknowledge that, I reckon.

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Aussie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #64 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:41pm

Quote:

UK and the other 13 Realm nations are not, in our opinion, considered 'foreign powers' because we all share the same Head of State

You have already conceded (not that you had any choice) that NZ is a foreign power and will be confirmed as such when the High Court deals with these Section 44 matter.

There endeth the lesson.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17392 Gender:	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #65 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:44pm
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Auggie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #66 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:52pm

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:41pm:

Quote:

UK and the other 13 Realm nations are not, in our opinion, considered 'foreign powers' because we all share the same Head of State

You have already conceded (not that you had any choice) that NZ is a foreign power and will be confirmed as such when the High Court deals with these Section 44 matter.

There endeth the lesson.

No, I did not say that NZ was a foreign power. I said that the High Court would rule it was.

What I'm saying is that I disagree with the High Court and believe that they are wrong.

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Aussie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #67 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:05pm

You can believe the Earth is flat if you like....but I don't, and neither does the High Court.

There is no point double guessing the place where the buck stops.

Face and accept reality.

Posting theories (as you have) based on rubbish fundamentals is disingenuous and while it might make blokes like Bobby feel all warm and fuzzy, it is pipe dream fantasy crap.

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Auggie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #68 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:09pm

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

You can believe the Earth is flat if you like....but I don't, and neither does the High Court.

There is no point double guessing the place where the buck stops.

Face and accept reality.

Posting theories (as you have) based on rubbish fundamentals is disingenuous and while it might make blokes like Bobby feel all warm and fuzzy, it is pipe dream fantasy crap.

Am I not entitled to an opinion? Am I not allowed to state what I believe 'should' be the case?

I respect the decision of the High Court, but I don't agree with it.

The 'reality' you are talking about is what exactly? That the High Court has the ultimate say on the issue. I've always known that.

I just don't agree with the decision.

Again, am I not entitled to an opinion?

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Aussie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #69 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:20pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

You can believe the Earth is flat if you like....but I don't, and neither does the High Court.

There is no point double guessing the place where the buck stops.

Face and accept reality.

Posting theories (as you have) based on rubbish fundamentals is disingenuous and while it might make blokes like Bobby feel all warm and fuzzy, it is pipe dream fantasy crap.

Am I not entitled to an opinion? Am I not allowed to state what I believe 'should' be the case?

I respect the decision of the High Court, but I don't agree with it.

The 'reality' you are talking about is what exactly? That the High Court has the ultimate say on the issue. I've always known that.

I just don't agree with the decision.

Again, am I not entitled to an opinion?

Of course you are and I am entitled to identify it for what it is. Pure rubbish totally divorced from legal reality.

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Auggie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #70 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:28pm

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:20pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

You can believe the Earth is flat if you like....but I don't, and neither does the High Court.

There is no point double guessing the place where the buck stops.

Face and accept reality.

Posting theories (as you have) based on rubbish fundamentals is disingenuous and while it might make blokes like Bobby feel all warm and fuzzy, it is pipe dream fantasy crap.

Am I not entitled to an opinion? Am I not allowed to state what I believe 'should' be the case?

I respect the decision of the High Court, but I don't agree with it.

The 'reality' you are talking about is what exactly? That the High Court has the ultimate say on the issue. I've always known that.

I just don't agree with the decision.

Again, am I not entitled to an opinion?

Of course you are and I am entitled to identify it for what it is. Pure rubbish totally divorced from legal reality.

It's always easy to win an argument when you say "that's the reality of it" against someone who's providing an alternative. Bobby and I are talking in prescriptive language; you're talking in 'descriptive' language. We're not on the same page.

We're talking about what 'should' be the case. If you don't want to talk on the 'should' level, then just say so; but if you are willing to do so, then you're gonna have to do better than 'pure rubbish'.

Neither Bobby or I have ever disputed reality.

Poverty exists in the world, but I don't think it 'should' exist.

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TheFunPolice Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9009 waggawagga Gender:	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #71 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:44pm Augustus is a pastafarian,
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Francis

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #72 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:44pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:52pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:41pm:

Quote:

UK and the other 13 Realm nations are not, in our opinion, considered 'foreign powers' because we all share the same Head of State

You have already conceded (not that you had any choice) that NZ is a foreign power and will be confirmed as such when the High Court deals with these Section 44 matter.

There endeth the lesson.

No, I did not say that NZ was a foreign power. I said that the High Court would rule it was.

What I'm saying is that I disagree with the High Court and believe that they are wrong.

What exactly do you believe N.Z is than ? Is it a state of Fiji, a breed of dog, a type of car?

I'm honestly interested?

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No tenemos miedo!

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TheFunPolice

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #73 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:47pm

Francis wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:52pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:41pm:

Quote:

UK and the other 13 Realm nations are not, in our opinion, considered 'foreign powers' because we all share the same Head of State

You have already conceded (not that you had any choice) that NZ is a foreign power and will be confirmed as such when the High Court deals with these Section 44 matter.

There endeth the lesson.

No, I did not say that NZ was a foreign power. I said that the High Court would rule it was.

What I'm saying is that I disagree with the High Court and believe that they are wrong.

What exactly do you believe N.Z is than ? Is it a state of Fiji, a breed of dog, a type of car?

I'm honestly interested?

Augustus is a pastafarian,

He can't accept if he's out of Noodles that it's his fault and he should just go and buy some more!

He will run around all day trying to blame everyone else but it's actually been his fault all along!

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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!

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Aussie

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Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #74 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:58pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:28pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:20pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

You can believe the Earth is flat if you like....but I don't, and neither does the High Court.

There is no point double guessing the place where the buck stops.

Face and accept reality.

Posting theories (as you have) based on rubbish fundamentals is disingenuous and while it might make blokes like Bobby feel all warm and fuzzy, it is pipe dream fantasy crap.

Am I not entitled to an opinion? Am I not allowed to state what I believe 'should' be the case?

I respect the decision of the High Court, but I don't agree with it.

The 'reality' you are talking about is what exactly? That the High Court has the ultimate say on the issue. I've always known that.

I just don't agree with the decision.

Again, am I not entitled to an opinion?

Of course you are and I am entitled to identify it for what it is. Pure rubbish totally divorced from legal reality.

It's always easy to win an argument when you say "that's the reality of it" against someone who's providing an alternative. Bobby and I are talking in prescriptive language; you're talking in 'descriptive' language. We're not on the same page.

We're talking about what 'should' be the case. If you don't want to talk on the 'should' level, then just say so; but if you are willing to do so, then you're gonna have to do better than 'pure rubbish'.

Neither Bobby or I have ever disputed reality.

Poverty exists in the world, but I don't think it 'should' exist.

Here's a new thing for you to consider.

'If only pigs could fly.'

Discuss.

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