Australian Politics Forum - Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship

Auggie

Gold Member

Offline

The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571

Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #75 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:07pm

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:58pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:28pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:20pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

You can believe the Earth is flat if you like....but I don't, and neither does the High Court.

There is no point double guessing the place where the buck stops.

Face and accept reality.

Posting theories (as you have) based on rubbish fundamentals is disingenuous and while it might make blokes like Bobby feel all warm and fuzzy, it is pipe dream fantasy crap.

Am I not entitled to an opinion? Am I not allowed to state what I believe 'should' be the case?

I respect the decision of the High Court, but I don't agree with it.

The 'reality' you are talking about is what exactly? That the High Court has the ultimate say on the issue. I've always known that.

I just don't agree with the decision.

Again, am I not entitled to an opinion?

Of course you are and I am entitled to identify it for what it is. Pure rubbish totally divorced from legal reality.

It's always easy to win an argument when you say "that's the reality of it" against someone who's providing an alternative. Bobby and I are talking in prescriptive language; you're talking in 'descriptive' language. We're not on the same page.

We're talking about what 'should' be the case. If you don't want to talk on the 'should' level, then just say so; but if you are willing to do so, then you're gonna have to do better than 'pure rubbish'.

Neither Bobby or I have ever disputed reality.

Poverty exists in the world, but I don't think it 'should' exist.

Here's a new thing for you to consider.

'If only pigs could fly.'

Discuss.

Then air travel would be cheaper.

Back to top

The Progressive President

IP Logged

Auggie

Gold Member

Offline

The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571

Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #76 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:08pm

TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:47pm:

Francis wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:52pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:41pm:

Quote:

UK and the other 13 Realm nations are not, in our opinion, considered 'foreign powers' because we all share the same Head of State

You have already conceded (not that you had any choice) that NZ is a foreign power and will be confirmed as such when the High Court deals with these Section 44 matter.

There endeth the lesson.

No, I did not say that NZ was a foreign power. I said that the High Court would rule it was.

What I'm saying is that I disagree with the High Court and believe that they are wrong.

What exactly do you believe N.Z is than ? Is it a state of Fiji, a breed of dog, a type of car?

I'm honestly interested?

Augustus is a pastafarian,

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/f6971d504a6d894cb7944de3d383c26c5c6bb869/c=0-0-...

He can't accept if he's out of Noodles that it's his fault and he should just go and buy some more!

He will run around all day trying to blame everyone else but it's actually been his fault all along!

Should NZ be considered a foreign power?

Yes or no?

Back to top

The Progressive President

IP Logged

Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38553 Gender:	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #77 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:09pm Yes.....and it is.
Back to top	IP Logged

Auggie

Gold Member

Offline

The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571

Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #78 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:12pm

Francis wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:52pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:41pm:

Quote:

UK and the other 13 Realm nations are not, in our opinion, considered 'foreign powers' because we all share the same Head of State

You have already conceded (not that you had any choice) that NZ is a foreign power and will be confirmed as such when the High Court deals with these Section 44 matter.

There endeth the lesson.

No, I did not say that NZ was a foreign power. I said that the High Court would rule it was.

What I'm saying is that I disagree with the High Court and believe that they are wrong.

What exactly do you believe N.Z is than ? Is it a state of Fiji, a breed of dog, a type of car?

I'm honestly interested?

NZ, as is Australia, is a self-governing dominion under the crown of the UK. It is a constituent country within the greater Commonwealth realm.

It is not a Foreign Power. The latter indicates loyalty to anything other than the Crown. That is what it meant in 1901 and 1907 and that is what it's meant now.

Back to top

The Progressive President

IP Logged

Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #79 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:13pm Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:09pm: Yes.....and it is. Because the high court says so, or because you have come to that conclusion by yourself?
Back to top	The Progressive President IP Logged

TheFunPolice

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9009
waggawagga
Gender: male

Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #80 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:13pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:08pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:47pm:

Francis wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:52pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:41pm:

Quote:

UK and the other 13 Realm nations are not, in our opinion, considered 'foreign powers' because we all share the same Head of State

You have already conceded (not that you had any choice) that NZ is a foreign power and will be confirmed as such when the High Court deals with these Section 44 matter.

There endeth the lesson.

No, I did not say that NZ was a foreign power. I said that the High Court would rule it was.

What I'm saying is that I disagree with the High Court and believe that they are wrong.

What exactly do you believe N.Z is than ? Is it a state of Fiji, a breed of dog, a type of car?

I'm honestly interested?

Augustus is a pastafarian,

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/f6971d504a6d894cb7944de3d383c26c5c6bb869/c=0-0-...

He can't accept if he's out of Noodles that it's his fault and he should just go and buy some more!

He will run around all day trying to blame everyone else but it's actually been his fault all along!

Should NZ be considered a foreign power?

Yes or no?

Are forcing me to answer questions now? Have you been talking to big ol about the protocols that allow you to use firearms through the interwebs?

You're a wack job buddy Wink

Who says they beleive in democracy and then the very next sentence in the same post admits he doesn't? Yeh, you!

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/f6971d504a6d894cb7944de3d383c26c5c6bb869/c=0-0-...

Back to top

......Australia has an illegitimate Government!

IP Logged

Auggie

Gold Member

Offline

The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571

Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #81 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:16pm

TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:13pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:08pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:47pm:

Francis wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:52pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:41pm:

Quote:

UK and the other 13 Realm nations are not, in our opinion, considered 'foreign powers' because we all share the same Head of State

You have already conceded (not that you had any choice) that NZ is a foreign power and will be confirmed as such when the High Court deals with these Section 44 matter.

There endeth the lesson.

No, I did not say that NZ was a foreign power. I said that the High Court would rule it was.

What I'm saying is that I disagree with the High Court and believe that they are wrong.

What exactly do you believe N.Z is than ? Is it a state of Fiji, a breed of dog, a type of car?

I'm honestly interested?

Augustus is a pastafarian,

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/f6971d504a6d894cb7944de3d383c26c5c6bb869/c=0-0-...

He can't accept if he's out of Noodles that it's his fault and he should just go and buy some more!

He will run around all day trying to blame everyone else but it's actually been his fault all along!

Should NZ be considered a foreign power?

Yes or no?

Are forcing me to answer questions now? Have you been talking to big ol about the protocols that allow you to use firearms through the interwebs?

You're a wack job buddy Wink

Who says they beleive in democracy and then the very next sentence in the same post admits he doesn't? Yeh, you!

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/f6971d504a6d894cb7944de3d383c26c5c6bb869/c=0-0-...

Should NZ be defined as a foreign power?

Yes or no?

Back to top

The Progressive President

IP Logged

John Smith Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 74308 Gender:	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #82 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:17pm Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:16pm: Should NZ be defined as a foreign power? Yes or no? of course it should. It's crazy to suggest otherwise.
Back to top	Our esteemed leader: I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus. IP Logged

TheFunPolice

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9009
waggawagga
Gender: male

Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #83 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:19pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:16pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:13pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:08pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:47pm:

Francis wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:52pm:

Aussie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 12:41pm:

Quote:

UK and the other 13 Realm nations are not, in our opinion, considered 'foreign powers' because we all share the same Head of State

You have already conceded (not that you had any choice) that NZ is a foreign power and will be confirmed as such when the High Court deals with these Section 44 matter.

There endeth the lesson.

No, I did not say that NZ was a foreign power. I said that the High Court would rule it was.

What I'm saying is that I disagree with the High Court and believe that they are wrong.

What exactly do you believe N.Z is than ? Is it a state of Fiji, a breed of dog, a type of car?

I'm honestly interested?

Augustus is a pastafarian,

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/f6971d504a6d894cb7944de3d383c26c5c6bb869/c=0-0-...

He can't accept if he's out of Noodles that it's his fault and he should just go and buy some more!

He will run around all day trying to blame everyone else but it's actually been his fault all along!

Should NZ be considered a foreign power?

Yes or no?

Are forcing me to answer questions now? Have you been talking to big ol about the protocols that allow you to use firearms through the interwebs?

You're a wack job buddy Wink

Who says they beleive in democracy and then the very next sentence in the same post admits he doesn't? Yeh, you!

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/f6971d504a6d894cb7944de3d383c26c5c6bb869/c=0-0-...

Should NZ be defined as a foreign power?

Yes or no?

Do your own homework whackjob Cheesy

Back to top

......Australia has an illegitimate Government!

IP Logged

TheFunPolice Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9009 waggawagga Gender:	Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship Reply #84 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:20pm John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:17pm: Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:16pm: Should NZ be defined as a foreign power? Yes or no? of course it should. It's crazy to suggest otherwise. It's not the issue: it's a strawman!
Back to top	......Australia has an illegitimate Government! IP Logged

Auggie

Gold Member

Offline

The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571

Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #85 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:23pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:17pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:16pm:

Should NZ be defined as a foreign power?

Yes or no?

of course it should. It's crazy to suggest otherwise.

Why should it be defined as such? Their head of state is the queen. Their constitution is an act of the British parliament.

Australias head of state is the queen. Our constitution is an act of the British parliament. Australia's and NZ's legal authority both derive from the same place - the British parliament.

Australian armed forces and NZ armed forces swear allegiance to the Queen. All politicians swear an oath to the Sovereign in Australia and NZ.

How is NZ a foreign power to us when we share allegiance to the same sovereign, have the same institutions?

Back to top

The Progressive President

IP Logged

Auggie

Gold Member

Offline

The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571

Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #86 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:24pm

TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:17pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:16pm:

Should NZ be defined as a foreign power?

Yes or no?

of course it should. It's crazy to suggest otherwise.

It's not the issue: it's a strawman!

So if our head of state was the President of the United States would we be a foreign power to America?

Back to top

The Progressive President

IP Logged

Auggie

Gold Member

Offline

The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571

Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #87 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:28pm

A foreign power is defined as any nation or state whose legal authority is derived from a separate and distinct entity. The legal authority of NZ and Australia are derived from the same authority.

Therefore NZ is not a foreign power to Australia and vice-versa. It was never construed to mean anyhthing else. A foreign power in our context is a country who's allegiance is NOT to the Sovereign.

Back to top

The Progressive President

IP Logged

TheFunPolice

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9009
waggawagga
Gender: male

Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #88 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:30pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:23pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:17pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:16pm:

Should NZ be defined as a foreign power?

Yes or no?

of course it should. It's crazy to suggest otherwise.

Why should it be defined as such? Their head of state is the queen. Their constitution is an act of the British parliament.

Australias head of state is the queen. Our constitution is an act of the British parliament. Australia's and NZ's legal authority both derive from the same place - the British parliament.

Australian armed forces and NZ armed forces swear allegiance to the Queen. All politicians swear an oath to the Sovereign in Australia and NZ.

How is NZ a foreign power to us when we share allegiance to the same sovereign, have the same institutions?

You're berko buddy Wink

Back to top

......Australia has an illegitimate Government!

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 74308
Gender: male

Re: Joyce renounces NZ Citizenship
Reply #89 - Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:31pm

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:23pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:17pm:

Auggie wrote on Aug 16^th, 2017 at 3:16pm:

Should NZ be defined as a foreign power?

Yes or no?

of course it should. It's crazy to suggest otherwise.

Why should it be defined as such? Their head of state is the queen. Their constitution is an act of the British parliament.

Australias head of state is the queen. Our constitution is an act of the British parliament. Australia's and NZ's legal authority both derive from the same place - the British parliament.

Australian armed forces and NZ armed forces swear allegiance to the Queen. All politicians swear an oath to the Sovereign in Australia and NZ.

How is NZ a foreign power to us when we share allegiance to the same sovereign, have the same institutions?

that argument will only serve to bring on the republic. WHy don't you suggest it to the mainstream media, maybe they can run with it and hopefully speed up the process.

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged