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Poll closed Poll
Question: Is the USA Supreme Court better than our High Court?
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Yes    
  6 (50.0%)
No    
  6 (50.0%)
I'm not sure - it's too complicated.    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 12
« Created by: Bobby. on: Aug 20th, 2017 at 6:15pm »

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American Supreme Court is better .... (Read 17525 times)
Auggie
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #105 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:50pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:38pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:32pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Logical.....maybe....but there are many situations in Law where the position is that where something done by a person in a role....is not found totally invalid or void because that person was ineligible to do that something.


What the hell does that mean?


What it says......for example, say a Board Member was found to be bankrupt and ineligible to be a Director under Corporate Law.....Board decisions made by the Board when he was there, are not invalidated.


Unless a law is made with retroactive effect?
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #106 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:51pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:47pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:46pm:
lovely lips wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:40pm:
This thread's the reason why we'll prevail. While you leftist dilettantes sit around discussing abstract legal principles, we're out on the streets of America, getting things done.

Good luck when we take over, scum.


Can I assume that you're in favour of a free-market solution to healthcare?


Dont even bother to respond to that racist nazi clone.  He is just another of Mechanics 'socks'.  Small minds and smaller penises need to invent people to support them.


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lovely lips
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #107 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:51pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:46pm:
lovely lips wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:40pm:
This thread's the reason why we'll prevail. While you leftist dilettantes sit around discussing abstract legal principles, we're out on the streets of America, getting things done.

Good luck when we take over, scum.


Can I assume that you're in favour of a free-market solution to healthcare?


Don't assume anything. I'm in favour of a free-market that looks after its own. Thanks to Obamacare, decent white people now have to pay for the blacks' medical marijuana.
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #108 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:52pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:50pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:38pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:32pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Logical.....maybe....but there are many situations in Law where the position is that where something done by a person in a role....is not found totally invalid or void because that person was ineligible to do that something.


What the hell does that mean?


What it says......for example, say a Board Member was found to be bankrupt and ineligible to be a Director under Corporate Law.....Board decisions made by the Board when he was there, are not invalidated.


Unless a law is made with retroactive effect?


See my reply to Panther.
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Auggie
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #109 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:54pm
 
Quote:
I am no fan of State Governments but I support them simply because the alternative is far worse. Anyone who lives outside of Sydney and Melbourne knows that int he mind of Canberra, there are only two cities and two states in Australia. If states were removed there would be a Deputy Prime Minister responsible for Sydney, a Cabinet minister for Melbourne, an assistant minister for QLD, a deputy dept head for SA and WA. NT and TAS would have to settle for a mid-level official with no actual authority.

THATS WHY.


Correct. In my view, the best argument for federalism is that it's easier to gain the consensus of 7 million (in the case of NSW) than it is to gain the consensus of 24 million Aussies. Also, federalism allows for experimentation of policy at a local level where the effect more controlled and less devastating.

I was reading the Constitutional Convention debates today, and noticed that the Framers of our Constitution actually discussed giving the Commonwealth the power to make laws concerning irrigation in relation to the River Murray; but was ultimately abandoned. Even though I'm a federalist, I think that any issue involving more than one State should be (but subject to limitation) within the guise of the Federation.
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #110 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:55pm
 
lovely lips wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:51pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:46pm:
lovely lips wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:40pm:
This thread's the reason why we'll prevail. While you leftist dilettantes sit around discussing abstract legal principles, we're out on the streets of America, getting things done.

Good luck when we take over, scum.


Can I assume that you're in favour of a free-market solution to healthcare?


Don't assume anything. I'm in favour of a free-market that looks after its own. Thanks to Obamacare, decent white people now have to pay for the blacks' medical marijuana.


Right. Another racist on the Forum... Great...

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #111 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:00pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:55pm:
lovely lips wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:51pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:46pm:
lovely lips wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:40pm:
This thread's the reason why we'll prevail. While you leftist dilettantes sit around discussing abstract legal principles, we're out on the streets of America, getting things done.

Good luck when we take over, scum.


Can I assume that you're in favour of a free-market solution to healthcare?


Don't assume anything. I'm in favour of a free-market that looks after its own. Thanks to Obamacare, decent white people now have to pay for the blacks' medical marijuana.


Right. Another racist on the Forum... Great...



Don't shoot the messenger, it's just a fact. If companies have to insure a whole lot of useless deadbeats, who do you think they're going to charge?

Whitey always ends up footing the bill.

Not anymore. We've finally got a president who's prepared to stand up for us.
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #112 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:14pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:50pm:
Panther wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:44pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Logical.....maybe....but there are many situations in Law where the position is that where something done by a person in a role....is not found totally invalid or void because that person was ineligible to do that something.


So then, the reason why they would be thrown out is solely because of being found to have dual-citizenship, but this dual-citizenship has nothing to do with what ramifications of dual-citizenship could have on years of legislation???

I agree, as I said previously, that the laws should not be invalidated, but I suggested all those laws should....at the very least.....be subject to review to ensure they weren't tainted.

If not....Then why the law?

Is the law merely established to punish, or was it hopefully designed to protect Australia from legislative harm.



Logically, and even theoretically , I'll go with your 'review' position.....but it is fraught in practical problems of rights having been given and acted upon, potentially being removed.  Take legislation on SSM as an example. (Do I have to spell that out?)



So no review because of the potential reversal of legislation, considered by some as good or beneficial?

The court's only charge would be to prove beyond doubt that legislation was corrupted by agents acting in behalf of a foreign government or power.... who's best interests in this legislation would be served to Australia's detriment, by the passage of the legislation.

Without such undeniable proof of external interference, the legislation would have to stand. 

That's a threat to Australia?

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Bobby.
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #113 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:09pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:58pm:
Bobby. wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:52pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:44pm:
Hell no!

The Supreme Court of the United States has completely exceeded its constitutional bounds. The judiciary's role is not to make laws; it's to interpret them.

Another complaint about the SCOTUS is that it basically acts as a permanent constitutional council - Woodrow Wilson pretty well said as much when he was President.

I much prefer the British system - the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty: the Parliament reigns supreme. The judiciary is independent but has power to overturn legislation passed by the Parliament.

That's how it should be.



I remember a TV series called Alistair Cooke's America.

He explained the Supreme Court so well.
I wish I could find the quote.
He had much praise for the founding Fathers of the USA
who foresaw the need for a court that would change laws

as it became necessary.
It was sort of a built in redundancy so that silly laws could be changed.

Absurdities can arise -
I gave an example:

hypothetical -

President Putin decides that all Australian politicians are automatically Russian citizens -
then by our law our whole Govt. would collapse over night.


Incorrect, the Founding Fathers of the US did not create a Supreme Court for that purpose; that was never the original intention. The court decision which started the tradition of Judicial Review was Marbury vs. Madison in 1803 (???). This was the first decision in which the court struck down a law because it was repugnant to the Constitution.

After the decision, Thomas Jefferson was appalled by the Supreme's Court ruling. He stated that the function of the Court SHOULD NOT be to determine matters related to the Constitution because it was open to abuse.



Did you see the TV series Alistair Cooke's America or
read the book?
I had a friend who is an American historian & they thought very highly of that book.
I am not so qualified to give such an opinion & I admit it.
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #114 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:12pm
 
...

Alistair Cooke's America
4.07 (325 ratings by Goodreads)

    Paperback English

By (author)  Alistair Cooke   

Now regarded as a classic, Alistair Cooke's America is an intimate portrait of the nation, and an irresistibly readable guide to what has made this powerful democracy work and survive through the years. For over sixty years Alistair Cooke wrote and broadcast on every facet of American life with incomparable wit and wisdom. This is his 'personal history' of America, the bestselling book that accompanied his legendary television series, with full colour photos alongside the text. Beginning with the controversial discovery of America, Alistair Cooke writes with engaging wit and wisdom about the explorers who put their new-found land on the map, the pioneers who tamed the Wild West, the soldier who fought for independence and the tycoons who built fortunes. From the Mayflower to the gold rush, the Jazz Age to Pearl Harbor, with portraits of figures as varied as Buffalo Bill, John D. Rockefeller and Martin Luther King, here is the American story in all its triumphs and failures, grandeurs and tragedies. 'Cooke was the special relationship' Daily Mail 'Civilized, literate, rational, graceful, humane' New York Magazine Alistair Cooke (1908-2004) enjoyed an extraordinary life in print, radio and television. The Guardian's Senior Correspondent in New York for twenty-five years and the host of groundbreaking cultural programmes on American television and of the BBC series America, Cooke was, however, best known both at home and abroad for his weekly BBC broadcast Letter from America, which reported on fifty-eight years of US life, was heard over five continents and totalled 2,869 broadcasts before his retirement in February 2004, far and away the longest-running radio series in broadcasting history.
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Bobby.
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #115 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:17pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:12pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:08pm:
Bobby. wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:52pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:44pm:
Hell no!

The Supreme Court of the United States has completely exceeded its constitutional bounds. The judiciary's role is not to make laws; it's to interpret them.

Another complaint about the SCOTUS is that it basically acts as a permanent constitutional council - Woodrow Wilson pretty well said as much when he was President.

I much prefer the British system - the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty: the Parliament reigns supreme. The judiciary is independent but has power to overturn legislation passed by the Parliament.

That's how it should be.



I remember a TV series called Alistair Cooke's America.

He explained the Supreme Court so well.
I wish I could find the quote.
He had much praise for the founding Fathers of the USA
who foresaw the need for a court that would change laws
as it became necessary.
It was sort of a built in redundancy so that silly laws could be changed.

Absurdities can arise -
I gave an example:

hypothetical -

President Putin decides that all Australian politicians are automatically Russian citizens -
then by our law our whole Govt. would collapse over night.


why do you persist in repeating STUPID CRAP????  You've already had it explained to you that SCOTUS does not make law. Nor does it invalidate law with the singular exception of when it conflicts with an existing superior law or the constitution. It is the legal UMPIRE, not a law-maker.

Persisting in your stupidity does not improve your already poor record for being dumb.


Factually not correct, longy. The Supreme Court was considered by Woodrow Wilson to be a 'permanent Constitution council' to revise the Constitution as they believed fit.

When the Supreme Court made the decision in favour of 'separate but equal' facilities for blacks and whites, was it interpreting the Constitution or making laws? Don't forget this was after the Civil War and the passage of the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments.

50 years later said Supreme Court overturned the decision in Brown vs. Board of Education.



Thanks for correcting Longy -
the self professed expert on everything even American law.
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #116 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:11pm
 
Bobby, American Supreme Court is still not better than our high court.

I believe in the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty.
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #117 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:12pm
 
Quote:
American Supreme Court is better ....


Than a toaster in the bath tub ?
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #118 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 4:29pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:11pm:
Bobby, American Supreme Court is still not better than our high court.

I believe in the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty.


I dont. I really, really like the idea of a non-political, unelected body with the ability to strike down unconstiutional laws. I dont think trusting pollies is necessarily a good idea.
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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #119 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 4:36pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 4:29pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:11pm:
Bobby, American Supreme Court is still not better than our high court.

I believe in the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty.


I dont. I really, really like the idea of a non-political, unelected body with the ability to strike down unconstiutional laws. I dont think trusting pollies is necessarily a good idea.


You cannot remove or elect the justices; you can elect politicians.
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