Australian Politics Forum - American Supreme Court is better ....

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 103580 Melbourne Gender:	Re: American Supreme Court is better .... Reply #240 - Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:29pm Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:24pm: Our high court got it exactly right. There was no way to put any other interpretation on it. It is a very simple rule that clearly states what it means. Except that NZ is not a foreign power and our head of State is the same person - the Queen.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 103580 Melbourne Gender:	Re: American Supreme Court is better .... Reply #241 - Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:30pm *
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Dnarever

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #242 - Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:34pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:29pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:24pm:

Our high court got it exactly right.

There was no way to put any other interpretation on it. It is a very simple rule that clearly states what it means.

Except that NZ is not a foreign power and our head of State is the same person - the Queen.

The same legislation rules that argument out specifying it is only about Australian citizens.

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Bobby.

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #243 - Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:48pm

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:29pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:24pm:

Our high court got it exactly right.

There was no way to put any other interpretation on it. It is a very simple rule that clearly states what it means.

Except that NZ is not a foreign power and our head of State is the same person - the Queen.

The same legislation rules that argument out specifying it is only about Australian citizens.

How stupid is that? -

before a minister gets the job he or she. has to swear allegiance to the Queen living in England.
Same goes for NZ ministers.

I don't like to see my money pissed up against the wall
because of some stupid old law.

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« Last Edit: Oct 28^th, 2017 at 10:43pm by Bobby. »

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Dnarever

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #244 - Oct 28^th, 2017 at 9:00pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:48pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:29pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:24pm:

Our high court got it exactly right.

There was no way to put any other interpretation on it. It is a very simple rule that clearly states what it means.

Except that NZ is not a foreign power and our head of State is the same person - the Queen.

The same legislation rules that argument out specifying it is only about Australian citizens.

How stupid is that? -

before a minister gets the job he or she. has to swear allegiance to the Queen living in England.
Same goes for NZ ministers.

I don't like to see my money pissed up against the wall
of some stupid old law.

And you have no problem having someone in Parliament who is making decisions to benefit some other country and don't understand why it isn't allowed.

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Bobby.

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #245 - Oct 28^th, 2017 at 10:44pm

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 9:00pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:48pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:29pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:24pm:

Our high court got it exactly right.

There was no way to put any other interpretation on it. It is a very simple rule that clearly states what it means.

Except that NZ is not a foreign power and our head of State is the same person - the Queen.

The same legislation rules that argument out specifying it is only about Australian citizens.

How stupid is that? -

before a minister gets the job he or she. has to swear allegiance to the Queen living in England.
Same goes for NZ ministers.

I don't like to see my money pissed up against the wall
because of some stupid old law.

And you have no problem having someone in Parliament who is making decisions to benefit some other country and don't understand why it isn't allowed.

Do you honestly believe that Barnaby was making decisions to benefit NZ?

See a doctor - it's called paranoia.

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: American Supreme Court is better .... Reply #246 - Oct 29^th, 2017 at 8:29am No one is saying anything like that, Booby. But the law is the law and it has to be followed. All it will change is that now, all MPs and candidates will need to be more thorough in their backgrounds to ensure it doesnt happen again.
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Bobby.

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #247 - Oct 29^th, 2017 at 8:50am

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 8:29am:

No one is saying anything like that, Bobby. But the law is the law and it has to be followed. All it will change is that now, all MPs and candidates will need to be more thorough in their backgrounds to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Listen you halfwit - the law can be interpreted to mean
what the original writers wanted it to mean.
You still don't understand that after 17 pages.

There is no hope for you Longy.

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Panther

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #248 - Oct 29^th, 2017 at 1:09pm

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 5:41pm:

Panther wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 4:50pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 4:00pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 3:53pm:

You undermine your own argument by mentioning the antiquated US constitution which weakens their position not strengthens it.

Watching Bobby vs Panther is like watching a fool vs a moron. One is incapable of understanding a basic truth while the other is so enamored with far-right ideology he understands nothing either.

http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/biglaugh023.gif http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/lolfun.gif http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/lol015.gif http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/taunt.gif http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/big%20laugh%20007.gif

In your dreams boy ...... I have forgotten more about the US Constitution & American History in one short moment, than you could ever hope to learn in a lifetime.

Your total & absolute ignorance of the US Constitution & American History yourself, is first & foremost the reason you can't realize or comprehend that.

Certainly, your insistence that the USA is "not a democracy but instead, a republic" proves your third-rate understanding of government and politics.

Every American child is taught from very early in their lives, on what America is, when they are taught, & when they recite, at the start of their school day:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Listen very carefully, & read along with the children reciting their pledge...

In a Democracy the majority rules. If a vote is taken who ever gets 50% + 1 vote, a victory belongs to the majority, & the minority loses.

America is governed by the rule of law. The Law of the Land is the US Constitution.

When voting in Congress, as an example, depending on what is being voted on (say a Constitutional Amendment for example), some issues need more than a majority, they need a super-majority, whereas 50%+1 does not win. If out of 100 votes (like in the Senate), if the Minority gets more than 34 votes....less than a Majority vote......the Minority claims victory over the Majority will.

That can't happen in a Democracy, where a simple majority would win.

So, how does this happen in America? It happens when a majority is less important than the Law......The Constitution, the Law of the Land, is superior to the Majority will.

America isn't a Democracy.......America is a Constitutional Republic........where the rule of Law.....the Constitution.....by design, supersedes the will of the majority, & it gives voice to the Minority over the Majority.

The same principal was also borne out at the 2016 US Presidential Election. Even though the Majority voted for SHillary Clinton, all that would be necessary in a Democracy, Donald Trump became President, even though a Majority did not vote for him.

Why? If America were a Democracy there would be a President Clinton in office today, but no......she isn't..

So why not?

Simple, because the Law, the US Constitution, specifically states how the winner is determined, & in 2016 the will of the Majority fell short, & the Minority proved victorious, by Law.......the Democratic rule of 50%+1 fell flat on it's face, because a Majority Rule does not apply, the Law as written does.......& unless a Constitutional Amendment is passed & ratified by the American People (again, by a super-majority mind you) that changes the Law, it will always be.....

That couldn't happen in a Democracy, that can't happen in a Democracy, where all that is necessary to claim victory is a simple majority.....50%+1

America is not, by design, America is not a Democracy....it is a Republic........... A Constitutional Republic, where the Republic is governed by the Rule of Law, & not the Majority.

Only via a complete ignorance of fact & history can anyone claim America is a Democracy.

America was not intended to be a Democracy from Day One.

The American Founding Fathers did not want America to be a Democracy, no they wanted America to be a Republic.....A Republic governed by the rule of Law....the US Constitution.......one based on Democratic Principals, but guaranteeing that the Majority could not dominate the Minority........
they gave America a Constitutional Republic......not a Democracy.

You can argue 'till you are blue in the face.....scream loud & hard as you wish......this is an argument you can never, ever win........just because you wish something to be won't get you past the facts that declare otherwise, & were written by design into America's most sacred document, the Constitution of the United States of America

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« Last Edit: Oct 29^th, 2017 at 1:47pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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longweekend58

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #249 - Oct 29^th, 2017 at 5:17pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 8:29am:

No one is saying anything like that, Bobby. But the law is the law and it has to be followed. All it will change is that now, all MPs and candidates will need to be more thorough in their backgrounds to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Listen you halfwit - the law can be interpreted to mean
what the original writers wanted it to mean.
You still don't understand that after 17 pages.

There is no hope for you Longy.

which is what the High Court ruled on. Why are you so insufferably STUPID?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #250 - Oct 29^th, 2017 at 5:19pm

Panther wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 1:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 5:41pm:

Panther wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 4:50pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 4:00pm:

[quote author=Jim_Puddle-Duck link=1503187410/233#233 date=1509169983]You undermine your own argument by mentioning the antiquated US constitution which weakens their position not strengthens it.

Watching Bobby vs Panther is like watching a fool vs a moron. One is incapable of understanding a basic truth while the other is so enamored with far-right ideology he understands nothing either.

http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/biglaugh023.gif http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/lolfun.gif http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/lol015.gif http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/taunt.gif http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/big%20laugh%20007.gif

In your dreams boy ...... I have forgotten more about the US Constitution & American History in one short moment, than you could ever hope to learn in a lifetime.

Your total & absolute ignorance of the US Constitution & American History yourself, is first & foremost the reason you can't realize or comprehend that.

Certainly, your insistence that the USA is "not a democracy but instead, a republic" proves your third-rate understanding of government and politics.

Every American child is taught from very early in their lives, on what America is, when they are taught, & when they recite, at the start of their school day:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Listen very carefully, & read along with the children reciting their pledge...

[font=Georgia][i]In a Democracy the majority rules. If a vote is taken who ever gets 50% + 1 vote, a victory belongs to the majority, & the minority loses.

America is governed by the rule of law. The Law of the Land is the US Constitution.

When voting in Congress, as an example, depending on what is being voted on (say a Constitutional Amendment for example), some issues need more than a majority, they need a super-majority, whereas 50%+1 does not win. If out of 100 votes (like in the Senate), if the Minority gets more than 34 votes....less than a Majority vote......the Minority claims victory over the Majority will.

That can't happen in a Democracy, where a simple majority would win.

So, how does this happen in America? It happens when a majority is less important than the Law......The Constitution, the Law of the Land, is superior to the Majority will.

America isn't a Democracy.......America is a Constitutional Republic........where the rule of Law.....the Constitution.....by design, supersedes the will of the majority, & it gives voice to the Minority over the Majority.

The same principal was also borne out at the 2016 US Presidential Election. Even though the Majority voted for SHillary Clinton, all that would be necessary in a Democracy, Donald Trump became President, even though a Majority did not vote for him.

Why? If America were a Democracy there would be a President Clinton in office today, but no......she isn't..

So why not?

Simple, because the Law, the US Constitution, specifically states how the winner is determined, & in 2016 the will of the Majority fell short, & the Minority proved victorious, by Law.......the Democratic rule of 50%+1 fell flat on it's face, because a Majority Rule does not apply, the Law as written does.......& unless a Constitutional Amendment is passed & ratified by the American People (again, by a super-majority mind you) that changes the Law, it will always be.....

That couldn't happen in a Democracy, that can't happen in a Democracy, where all that is necessary to claim victory is a simple majority.....50%+1

America is not, by design, America is not a Democracy....it is a Republic........... A Constitutional Republic, where the Republic is governed by the Rule of Law, & not the Majority. Wink

[size=14]Only via a complete ignorance of fact & history can anyone claim America is a Democracy.

America was not intended to be a Democracy from Day One.

You can argue 'till you are blue in the face.....scream loud & hard as you wish......this is an argument you can never, ever win........just because you wish something to be won't get you past the facts that declare otherwise, & were written by design into America's most sacred document, the

Instead of repeating your mindless and inaccurate drivel, find me an american constitutions or political scholar you thinks - like you do - that America is not a democracy. You wont of course, because you are dead wrong as you are on so many other topics.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Bobby.

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #251 - Oct 29^th, 2017 at 5:19pm

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 5:17pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 8:29am:

No one is saying anything like that, Bobby. But the law is the law and it has to be followed. All it will change is that now, all MPs and candidates will need to be more thorough in their backgrounds to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Listen you halfwit - the law can be interpreted to mean
what the original writers wanted it to mean.
You still don't understand that after 17 pages.

There is no hope for you Longy.

which is what the High Court ruled on. Why are you so insufferably STUPID?

So you agree with a court that has put your own Libbo mates in peril?

Longy - you were never the brightest candle on the cake.

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longweekend58

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #252 - Oct 29^th, 2017 at 5:43pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 5:19pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 5:17pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 8:29am:

No one is saying anything like that, Bobby. But the law is the law and it has to be followed. All it will change is that now, all MPs and candidates will need to be more thorough in their backgrounds to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Listen you halfwit - the law can be interpreted to mean
what the original writers wanted it to mean.
You still don't understand that after 17 pages.

There is no hope for you Longy.

which is what the High Court ruled on. Why are you so insufferably STUPID?

So you agree with a court that has put your own Libbo mates in peril?

Longy - you were never the brightest candle on the cake.

unlike you, I want the High Court to uphold the law and the Constitution without bias. THAT is how a great democracy like Australia remains great.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dnarever

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #253 - Oct 29^th, 2017 at 7:18pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 10:44pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 9:00pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:48pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:29pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 28^th, 2017 at 8:24pm:

Our high court got it exactly right.

There was no way to put any other interpretation on it. It is a very simple rule that clearly states what it means.

Except that NZ is not a foreign power and our head of State is the same person - the Queen.

The same legislation rules that argument out specifying it is only about Australian citizens.

How stupid is that? -

before a minister gets the job he or she. has to swear allegiance to the Queen living in England.
Same goes for NZ ministers.

I don't like to see my money pissed up against the wall
because of some stupid old law.

And you have no problem having someone in Parliament who is making decisions to benefit some other country and don't understand why it isn't allowed.

Do you honestly believe that Barnaby was making decisions to benefit NZ?

See a doctor - it's called paranoia.

You think the rule exists just for Baaarnaby ?

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Dnarever

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #254 - Oct 29^th, 2017 at 7:36pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 8:29am:

No one is saying anything like that, Bobby. But the law is the law and it has to be followed. All it will change is that now, all MPs and candidates will need to be more thorough in their backgrounds to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Listen you halfwit - the law can be interpreted to mean
what the original writers wanted it to mean.
You still don't understand that after 17 pages.

There is no hope for you Longy.

Quote:

is a subject or a citizen

What part of "a citizen" can be interpreted any other way ? There is no if's or but's no excuses nothing. If you are a citizen of another country you are not entitled to stand for office in Australia. There is no other possible way to interpret it.

what the original writers wanted it to mean.

That is exactly how it was interpreted, the intention was that anyone with dual citizenship was not allowed to stand. The onus was on Barnaby and the others to not sign their declaration until they checked. There is plenty of warnings and advice in the material that goes with the application.

In my view by far the worst thing that Barnaby did was in refusing to stand aside and taking a vexatious claim to the high court. He cost us millions and showed a lack of integrity.

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Poll
Question: Is the USA Supreme Court better than our High Court?
* This poll has now closed *
Yes 6 (50.0%) No 6 (50.0%) I'm not sure - it's too complicated. 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 12 « Created by: Bobby. on: Aug 20^th, 2017 at 6:15pm »