Australian Politics Forum - American Supreme Court is better ....

Bobby.

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American Supreme Court is better ....
Aug 20^th, 2017 at 10:03am

The American Supreme court is better than our High court of Australia.

They can actually change the law!
see here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/10/justice/landmark-scotus-cases/index.html
15 Supreme Court cases that changed America.

We have a High Court that seems to only be allowed to interpret the law.

In the case of the laws around politicians like Barnaby Joyce
it seems that as his Father was a New Zealander,
that he might be kicked out of parliament even though
he didn't know that he had automatic NZ citizenship.

If we had a Supreme court like America they could change the law.
The law could then be a living document and change
as absurdities & needs arose.

We have a poor system that needs to be changed.

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Panther

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #1 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 1:31pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 10:03am:

The American Supreme court is better than our High court of Australia.

They can actually change the law!
see here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/10/justice/landmark-scotus-cases/index.html
15 Supreme Court cases that changed America.

We have a High Court that seems to only be allowed to interpret the law.

In the case of the laws around politicians like Barnaby Joyce
it seems that as his Father was a New Zealander,
that he might be kicked out of parliament even though
he didn't know that he had automatic NZ citizenship.

If we had a Supreme court like America they could change the law.
The law could then be a living document and change
as absurdities & needs arose.

We have a poor system that needs to be changed.

The Supreme Court of the United States of America is not actually permitted to change the law.

It only has the ability to interpret/define the law in such a way that might be contrary/different than previous interpretations, which in itself may be or may not be diametrically opposed to prior interpretations......effectually this gives the false impression that they changed the law, when in reality they only changed the Court's standing interpretation of the law....& not the law itself.

Whatever the SCOTUS interprets a law to be, it will remain as the law until either another SCOTUS interprets that law differently, or the American People set out & succeeds in Amending the Constitution via the Amendment Process set fourth within the Constitution itself (extremely difficult, but possible).

BTW.....The US Constitution belongs to the American People, & not the US Government.

The US Constitution is the People's Document.

As set fourth in the Preamble:

Quote:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

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« Last Edit: Aug 20^th, 2017 at 1:43pm by Panther »

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Dnarever

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #2 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 1:36pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 10:03am:

The American Supreme court is better than our High court of Australia.

They can actually change the law!
see here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/10/justice/landmark-scotus-cases/index.html
15 Supreme Court cases that changed America.

We have a High Court that seems to only be allowed to interpret the law.

In the case of the laws around politicians like Barnaby Joyce
it seems that as his Father was a New Zealander,
that he might be kicked out of parliament even though
he didn't know that he had automatic NZ citizenship.

If we had a Supreme court like America they could change the law.
The law could then be a living document and change
as absurdities & needs arose.

We have a poor system that needs to be changed.

Why it is a problem now and not a few months ago when anyone caught was expected to resign ?

How unfair is it if they were to change the law now just because it is Barnaby caught out when every one else in the same circumstance was expelled.

Neither Barnaby or Nash are legally elected representatives, this fact is not in question. There is nothing to appeal.

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« Last Edit: Aug 20^th, 2017 at 1:48pm by Dnarever »

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Dnarever

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #3 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 1:46pm

Quote:

American Supreme Court is better ....

I would say that the 2000 Bush election pretty much proves that statement far from factual.

Every layer of the US court system voted along political lines. Doubt that there is a less honest or less corrupt political system on the planet. Judges are political appointments and they have no option other than to toe the political line.

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Panther

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #4 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:00pm

Dnarever wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 1:46pm:

Quote:

American Supreme Court is better ....

I would say that the 2000 Bush election pretty much proves that statement far from factual.

Every layer of the US court system voted along political lines. Doubt that there is a less honest or less corrupt political system on the planet. Judges are political appointments and they have no option other than to toe the political line.

Not exactly so, but as the American Founding Fathers intended, the Supreme Court of the United States is a result of a political process, exercised by political representatives....employees of the American People.

And yes, they are political appointments of the President......lifetime appointments, & therefore not obligated to partisanship.

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« Last Edit: Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:08pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Bobby.

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #5 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:07pm

Panther wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 1:31pm:

The Supreme Court of the United States of America is not actually permitted to change the law.

It only has the ability to interpret/define the law in such a way that might be contrary/different than previous interpretations, which in itself may be or may not be diametrically opposed to prior interpretations......effectually this gives the false impression that they changed the law, when in reality they only changed the Court's standing interpretation of the law....& not the law itself.

Whatever the SCOTUS interprets a law to be, it will remain as the law until either another SCOTUS interprets that law differently, or the American People set out & succeeds in Amending the Constitution via the Amendment Process set fourth within the Constitution itself (extremely difficult, but possible).

BTW.....The US Constitution belongs to the American People, & not the US Government.

The US Constitution is the People's Document.

As set fourth in the Preamble:

Quote:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Thanks for your link -
it says:

Quote:

although the courts reserve to themselves the final authority to determine the Constitution's meaning.[16] However, this focus on historical understandings of the Constitution is sometimes in tension with the changed circumstances of modern society from the late 18th century society that drafted the Constitution; courts have ruled that the Constitution must be interpreted in light of these changed circumstances.[17] All of these considerations of the political theory behind the Constitution have prompted the Supreme Court to articulate a variety of special rules of construction and principles for interpreting it.[18] For example, the Court's rendering of the purposes behind the Constitution have led it to express a preference for broad interpretations of individual freedoms.

It appears that the law can be changed because of changed circumstances.

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Dnarever

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #6 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:09pm

Panther wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:00pm:

Dnarever wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 1:46pm:

Quote:

American Supreme Court is better ....

I would say that the 2000 Bush election pretty much proves that statement far from factual.

Every layer of the US court system voted along political lines. Doubt that there is a less honest or less corrupt political system on the planet. Judges are political appointments and they have no option other than to toe the political line.

Not exactly so, but as the American Founding Fathers intended, the Supreme Court of the United States is a result of a political process, exercised by political representatives....employees of the American People.

And yet it is a fact that the 2000 election was decided by 5 votes to 4 in the high court and that virtually every decision on the path to the high court was aligned with political appointments.

The US 2000 election was decided on political allegiance in the court system, that is a fact.

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Panther

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #7 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:14pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:07pm:

Panther wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 1:31pm:

The Supreme Court of the United States of America is not actually permitted to change the law.

It only has the ability to interpret/define the law in such a way that might be contrary/different than previous interpretations, which in itself may be or may not be diametrically opposed to prior interpretations......effectually this gives the false impression that they changed the law, when in reality they only changed the Court's standing interpretation of the law....& not the law itself.

Whatever the SCOTUS interprets a law to be, it will remain as the law until either another SCOTUS interprets that law differently, or the American People set out & succeeds in Amending the Constitution via the Amendment Process set fourth within the Constitution itself (extremely difficult, but possible).

BTW.....The US Constitution belongs to the American People, & not the US Government.

The US Constitution is the People's Document.

As set fourth in the Preamble:

Quote:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Thanks for your link -
it says:

Quote:

although the courts reserve to themselves the final authority to determine the Constitution's meaning.[16] However, this focus on historical understandings of the Constitution is sometimes in tension with the changed circumstances of modern society from the late 18th century society that drafted the Constitution; courts have ruled that the Constitution must be interpreted in light of these changed circumstances.[17] All of these considerations of the political theory behind the Constitution have prompted the Supreme Court to articulate a variety of special rules of construction and principles for interpreting it.[18] For example, the Court's rendering of the purposes behind the Constitution have led it to express a preference for broad interpretations of individual freedoms.

It appears that the law can be changed because of changed circumstances.

Or kept the same over hundreds of years by interpreting via "Original Intent" (link)
.

In the end, the lifetime members of the court are free to interpret the Constitution as they see as fitting to their personal beliefs.

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« Last Edit: Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:21pm by Panther »

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When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Live FREE or DIE!
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Bobby.

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #8 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:18pm

Roe v. Wade Supreme Court Decision

https://www.thoughtco.com/roe-v-wade-overview-3528244

Quote:

by Jone Johnson Lewis
Updated August 04, 2017

On January 22, 1973, the Supreme Court handed down its historic decision in Roe v. Wade. This significant court case overturned a Texas interpretation of abortion law and made abortion legal in the United States. It is seen as a turning point in women's reproductive rights.

The Roe v. Wade decision held that a woman, with her doctor, could choose abortion in earlier months of pregnancy without legal restriction, based on the right to privacy.

In later trimesters, state restrictions could be applied.
The Effect of the Roe v. Wade Decision

Roe v. Wade legalized abortion in the United States, which was not legal at all in many states and was limited by law in others.

All state laws limiting women's access to abortions during the first trimester of pregnancy were invalidated by the Roe v. Wade decision. State laws limiting such access during the second trimester were upheld only when the restrictions were for the purpose of protecting the health of the pregnant woman.

The law was changed by the Supreme Court.

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Dnarever

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #9 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:18pm:

Roe v. Wade Supreme Court Decision

https://www.thoughtco.com/roe-v-wade-overview-3528244

Quote:

by Jone Johnson Lewis
Updated August 04, 2017

On January 22, 1973, the Supreme Court handed down its historic decision in Roe v. Wade. This significant court case overturned a Texas interpretation of abortion law and made abortion legal in the United States. It is seen as a turning point in women's reproductive rights.

The Roe v. Wade decision held that a woman, with her doctor, could choose abortion in earlier months of pregnancy without legal restriction, based on the right to privacy.

In later trimesters, state restrictions could be applied.
The Effect of the Roe v. Wade Decision

Roe v. Wade legalized abortion in the United States, which was not legal at all in many states and was limited by law in others.

All state laws limiting women's access to abortions during the first trimester of pregnancy were invalidated by the Roe v. Wade decision. State laws limiting such access during the second trimester were upheld only when the restrictions were for the purpose of protecting the health of the pregnant woman.

The law was changed by the Supreme Court.

Think you will find that they can not change the Law but they can interpret it in the opposite way ?

It is the same with their gun laws, they have interpreted it vastly differently from the original meanings and expectations.

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Panther

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #10 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:25pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:18pm:

Roe v. Wade Supreme Court Decision

https://www.thoughtco.com/roe-v-wade-overview-3528244

Quote:

by Jone Johnson Lewis
Updated August 04, 2017

On January 22, 1973, the Supreme Court handed down its historic decision in Roe v. Wade. This significant court case overturned a Texas interpretation of abortion law and made abortion legal in the United States. It is seen as a turning point in women's reproductive rights.

The Roe v. Wade decision held that a woman, with her doctor, could choose abortion in earlier months of pregnancy without legal restriction, based on the right to privacy.

In later trimesters, state restrictions could be applied.
The Effect of the Roe v. Wade Decision

Roe v. Wade legalized abortion in the United States, which was not legal at all in many states and was limited by law in others.

All state laws limiting women's access to abortions during the first trimester of pregnancy were invalidated by the Roe v. Wade decision. State laws limiting such access during the second trimester were upheld only when the restrictions were for the purpose of protecting the health of the pregnant woman.

The law was changed by the Supreme Court.

Bobby.....The law never said that Abortion was illegal, the Supreme Court merely interpreted the existing law, which neither made abortion legal or illegal, as saying Women had the Right to Choose to have an Abortion or not.

That's not changing.....that's interpreting.

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Bobby.

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #11 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:27pm

Panther wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:25pm:

The law never said that Abortion was illegal, the Supreme Court merely interpreted the existing law, which neither made abortion legal or illegal, as saying Women had the Right to Choose to have an Abortion or not.

Roe v. Wade legalized abortion in the United States, which was not legal at all in many states

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Panther

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #12 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:36pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:27pm:

Panther wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:25pm:

The law never said that Abortion was illegal, the Supreme Court merely interpreted the existing law, which neither made abortion legal or illegal, as saying Women had the Right to Choose to have an Abortion or not.

Roe v. Wade legalized abortion in the United States, which was not legal at all in many states

So, the law which they interpreted NEVER said abortion was legal, or illegal......but the Supreme Courts in the Roe v. Wade decision....their interpretation......gave women a specific right never defined before.....the law they interpreted, from that moment on, gave women the right to choose if they wished to have an abortion or not.

As you said:
Quote:
The Roe v. Wade decision held that a woman, with her doctor, could choose abortion in earlier months of pregnancy without legal restriction, based on the right to privacy.

A Right to Privacy primarily inferred by the due process clause of the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution.

All inferior laws.....State laws.....that said otherwise, would no longer be valid (Constitutional) simply because ALL LAW in the United States has to be in line with the US Constitution as defined/interpreted by the Supreme Court

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« Last Edit: Aug 20^th, 2017 at 2:51pm by Panther »

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When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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longweekend58

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Re: American Supreme Court is better ....
Reply #13 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 3:09pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 10:03am:

The American Supreme court is better than our High court of Australia.

They can actually change the law!
see here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/10/justice/landmark-scotus-cases/index.html
15 Supreme Court cases that changed America.

We have a High Court that seems to only be allowed to interpret the law.

In the case of the laws around politicians like Barnaby Joyce
it seems that as his Father was a New Zealander,
that he might be kicked out of parliament even though
he didn't know that he had automatic NZ citizenship.

If we had a Supreme court like America they could change the law.
The law could then be a living document and change
as absurdities & needs arose.

We have a poor system that needs to be changed.

Well, as always, you are dead wrong, not onoly factually but in your opinion.

The Supreme court CANNOT change law and nor can our High court. But because Americans are republicans or democrats long before they are citizens, the SCOTUS becomes deeply political which is a bad thing. The 2000 election proved that when a poltiical decision was made to put GWB into office and to literally refuse to count the votes.

Why would anyone - even a stupid drongo like booby - want an unelected, unscrutinised lifetime appointment body like a High Court to be able to make law?

Brighter people that you long ago worked out that it would be a very bad thing although to be fair, you dont have to be very bright to work that out.

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: American Supreme Court is better .... Reply #14 - Aug 20^th, 2017 at 3:11pm So panther... how you handling the US Senate not going on recess so that Trump cant make recess appointments??? That was my prediction and I was right while your prediction was.... WRONG. get used to it. It is a precedent.
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Poll
Question: Is the USA Supreme Court better than our High Court?
* This poll has now closed *
Yes 6 (50.0%) No 6 (50.0%) I'm not sure - it's too complicated. 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 12 « Created by: Bobby. on: Aug 20^th, 2017 at 6:15pm »