Australian Politics Forum - Is it wrong to criticise Nazis?

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95302 Gender:	Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis? Reply #210 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:35pm And a supplementary: can we describe all Muslims as racist because of an alleged Muslim murder of 200 to 800 "treacherous Jews" back in the 8th century? This is your argument. Do you stand by it?
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis?
Reply #211 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:31pm:

Here. I'll repeat it for you.

Karnal wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 1:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 10:55am:

[quote author=freediver link=1503372816/176#176 date=1503793451]I was asking John whether he thinks it is wrong to criticise you or your grandfather if you don't openly reveal your hate.

Is it wrong to assume someone is a racist based on their views, or do they have to declare themselves a Nazi?

Start by applying a uniform standard that will clearly define what is racist and what is not...

For instance - why is it racist to say 'white lives matter', but not racist to say 'black lives matter' and use that latter as a lever from which to attack the 'white lives matter' poster?

I'm sure the family of that Oz girl shot by a cop over there would tend to agree that 'white lives matter'...

Why is it racist to raise a statue of Captain Cook, but not racist to defile it and demand its removal?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95302 Gender:	Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis? Reply #212 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:39pm You seem to have gone quiet, FD. freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2017 at 1:33pm: He now refuses to give a straight answer,
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis?
Reply #213 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:39pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:35pm:

And a supplementary: can we describe all Muslims as racist because of an alleged Muslim murder of 200 to 800 "treacherous Jews" back in the 8th century?

This is your argument. Do you stand by it?

As long as they espouse the same view today - yes. But you fail by posting 'all' Muslims, since obviously that loads your question to make the answer wrong no matter which way it goes.

Now let's argue pedantics over 'Jews are not a race'... to which I respond that neither are Aboriginals, since they are of the human race.... so why all the furore over Captain Cook's statue etc?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Karnal

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Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis?
Reply #214 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:44pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:31pm:

Here. I'll repeat it for you.

Karnal wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 1:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 10:55am:

[quote author=freediver link=1503372816/176#176 date=1503793451]I was asking John whether he thinks it is wrong to criticise you or your grandfather if you don't openly reveal your hate.

Is it wrong to assume someone is a racist based on their views, or do they have to declare themselves a Nazi?

Start by applying a uniform standard that will clearly define what is racist and what is not...

For instance - why is it racist to say 'white lives matter', but not racist to say 'black lives matter' and use that latter as a lever from which to attack the 'white lives matter' poster?

I'm sure the family of that Oz girl shot by a cop over there would tend to agree that 'white lives matter'...

Why is it racist to raise a statue of Captain Cook, but not racist to defile it and demand its removal?

Thanks for a considered answer, Grappler. Statues of Captain Cook have nothing to do with black or white lives matter. The Sydney City Council wants to change the plaque that says Captain Cook "discovered" Australia.

No one is talking about removing statues except Andrew Bolt and Miranda Divine.

There you go, FD, this is how you do it. We call this a discussion.

You?

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95302 Gender:	Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis? Reply #215 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:45pm freediver wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 11:27am: What sound does a jellyfish make? I think it sounds like this, FD: freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2017 at 8:56pm: It's a simple question. No need for the hysterics.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis?
Reply #216 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:46pm

Well - Ol' CC did discover Oz in a way, since there was no nation of Oz then.... just a huge number of small groups...

The whole argument is bootless if you ask me... let the Kaffirs raise a statue to N'metapangaweya or whoever who discovered Oz by rowing across the Timor Sea..... something of passing interest to viewers...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Karnal

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Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis?
Reply #217 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:56pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:46pm:

Well - Ol' CC did discover Oz in a way, since there was no nation of Oz then.... just a huge number of small groups...

Indeed. And that's a topic of discussion. You could even have this discussion on a plaque.

It's a different suggestion to the one that claims Clover Moore is trying to "raze" statues and topple Australian history AKA Stalin, but that's the porkie coming out of the reactionary camp, who have been using the media in an attempt to destroy Clover for years.

On the one side, we have a discussion: Australian history and colonialism. On the other, we have hysterical twisting, distorting, putting words in people's mouths, refusing to clarify or answer questions, and all those things FD likes to bring to our attention.

FD?

Don't worry, you've disappeared again.

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John Smith

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Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis?
Reply #218 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:56pm

freediver wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:06pm:

You quote parts of my post all the time John

I quote part of the posts to deal with that part of the posts when I feel that it is relevant. Like now ... I do not take out a small part of what you said and spread it all around a half a dozen threads so as to misrepresent what you said. I deal with it where the rest of your post is obvious for all and sundry to see so they can form their own opinion on what you said.

as for the rest of your 'assessment', you're not even close to the truth. You have zero integrity.

freediver wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:06pm:

How is it a lie John?

Is this the next question you're going to ask repeatedly? already answered

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Karnal

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Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis?
Reply #219 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 3:12pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:56pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:06pm:

You quote parts of my post all the time John

I quote part of the posts to deal with that part of the posts when I feel that it is relevant. Like now ... I do not take out a small part of what you said and spread it all around a half a dozen threads so as to misrepresent what you said. I deal with it where the rest of your post is obvious for all and sundry to see so they can form their own opinion on what you said.

as for the rest of your 'assessment', you're not even close to the truth. You have zero integrity.

freediver wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 2:06pm:

How is it a lie John?

Is this the next question you're going to ask repeatedly? already answered

Indeed you have, as has everybody else who read the discussion.

But allow me to provide an answer too. It's a lie because your statement was about thought crime: railing against people who haven't actually said or done anything wrong.

FD edited your statement to read as you defending Nazis. When you and others pointed out you did no such thing, FD pretended you'd refused to answer - a complete lie, as was the premise of his accusation.

No "lying by omission", no skewing or distorting, no "misleading", just a bald-faced porkie pie.

And this is what FD's campaign for Freeeeedom has come to.

Poor FD. He hasn't been the same since Abu left.

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freediver

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Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis?
Reply #220 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 3:16pm

Quote:

Is this the next question you're going to ask repeatedly? already answered

You have said that it was a lie because it was quoting part of your post. Why is quoting part of your post a lie John? You still haven't answered that once. We only just got you to admit it was something to do with quoting you. Why are you afraid to give a straight answer?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95302 Gender:	Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis? Reply #221 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 3:18pm You're back. freediver wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 3:16pm: Why are you afraid to give a straight answer?
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freediver

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Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis?
Reply #222 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 3:20pm

Is this the quote John?

John Smith wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 12:21pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 20^th, 2017 at 12:17pm:

So we should refrain from criticising Nazis until they actually do something wrong, or openly reveal their hate?

a rather simplified comment but pretty much spot on, yes.

How is that a lie?

Don't turn into a jellyfish now. You have not given a straight answer once.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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John Smith

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Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis?
Reply #223 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 3:21pm

freediver wrote on Aug 27^th, 2017 at 3:16pm:

Quote:

Is this the next question you're going to ask repeatedly? already answered

You have said that it was a lie because it was quoting part of your post. Why is quoting part of your post a lie John? You still haven't answered that once. We only just got you to admit it was something to do with quoting you. Why are you afraid to give a straight answer?

you can't seriously be that dense? You're just doing this to try and gee me up, aren't you?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: Is it wrong to criticise Nazis? Reply #224 - Aug 27^th, 2017 at 3:24pm No John. You literally are afraid to give a straight answer. Yet still compelled to post excuses for some reason. Don't be a jellyfish John. How is it a lie?
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