freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:


What do you think FD? I assume you only ask because you think you know the answer. Give us a ball-park percentage. Its obviously so terribly important to you. You previously stated that "entire chapters" (plural) are dedicated to violence. You seemed to understand what rubbish that was after I started challenging you on that. Or at least you stopped peddling that nonsense anyway.

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:


You're not even trying FD. How does an alleged "spiritual" experience of Muhammad relate to the spirituality that derives from the personal conversation between the reader and God that I was specifically referring to?

He read the whole chapter, he just missed all those bits G quoted.

An easy mistake to make. Anyone could do it.

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No. I have come across other chapters that promote violence also.

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A bit like that, only more like if I had heard other Muslims saying that sort of thing. Did you think I was attributing your exact quote to someone else?

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So God is telling you to slaughter the Mushriken wherever you find them? What exactly are you trying to counter by pointing out that Islam is spiritual? You introduced this by arguing that you reject 'our' version of history Gandalf, but you have not said what you reject, though it appears to be you reject the question about how many people Muhammad killed

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Yet the Koran is full of this Gandalf.

How do you go from God talking to you to rejecting our version of history? Does He also give you lessons in revisionism? And why are you afraid to offer an alternative, or even state what is you reject about history? Could you demonstrate how to phrase these questions in such a way that it is possible to get a straight answer from a Muslim? Or is that not possible?

How many people do you believe the founder of your non-violent religion killed or oversaw the slaughter of? Round to the nearest thousand if you are not sure.

How much of the Koran do you believe is dedicated to the promotion of violence?

Gandalf do you agree that a lot of the revelations in the Koran were conveniently timed to assist with Muhammad's earthly rule? Like chapter 9's encouragement to slaughter the infidel when the religion had previously been more tolerant? How exactly do Muslims take the 'context' of the Koran into account while ignoring Muhammad's situation and his response?

How many years did Muhammad spend preaching before he started murdering and robbing people? How many converts to Islam did he acquire in that period? How does this compare with his religious and financial success after he started murdering and robbing people? How does this fit in with your narrative that Islam is not a materialistic religion?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 14^th, 2017 at 11:57am:


How many people do you believe he killed, or oversaw the slaughter of? How does rejecting my opinion render you incapable of offering an alternative?

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How many of them did Muhammad kill? How many Muslims did they kill?

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Would this be the treaty that does not exist? Or the one that was wirten after Muhammad slaughtered them? h wait, let's use the one that was written after he killed them all, but pretend it applied beforehand.

Earthly rulings, and support for them. For example, a lot of the encouragement for violence in chapter 9 is not a rule. For example, the verses saying the the best Muslims are the ones who kill and die for Islam. This is not a rule, but was very convenient support for Muhammad, who had just decided to take up warmongering. I'm sure plenty of Muslims consider becoming the best type of Muslim by killing and dying for Islam to be a deeply spiritual experience.