Australian Politics Forum - Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism

Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 49372 Gender:	Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism Reply #135 - Dec 20^th, 2017 at 8:50pm They don't suffer enough to stop it.
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freediver

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #136 - Dec 20^th, 2017 at 9:17pm

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Nonsense. Iran would have intervened if there was any possibility that ISIS could overrun Iraq - which they clearly couldn't by the way

.

Why is it so clear? Does the fact it has taken the Iraqis ten years (and counting), with loads of foreign support, not tell you something about the risk posed by ISIS? Do you think they just couldn't be bothered wrapping it up or something?

And how would it have played out for ISIS's recruitment strategy if their main opponent on the battlefield was a Shite regime? Do you really think that would have ended well? And what if the Saudis stuck their fingers in to undermine Iran?

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Karnal

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #137 - Dec 20^th, 2017 at 10:27pm

freediver wrote on Dec 20^th, 2017 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Nonsense. Iran would have intervened if there was any possibility that ISIS could overrun Iraq - which they clearly couldn't by the way

.

Why is it so clear? Does the fact it has taken the Iraqis ten years (and counting), with loads of foreign support, not tell you something about the risk posed by ISIS? Do you think they just couldn't be bothered wrapping it up or something?

And how would it have played out for ISIS's recruitment strategy if their main opponent on the battlefield was a Shite regime? Do you really think that would have ended well? And what if the Saudis stuck their fingers in to undermine Iran?

Not at all. Iraq is the new South Korea, as you've said many times. Or do you take that back?

A simple yes, no, or a non-answer will suffice.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism Reply #138 - Dec 20^th, 2017 at 10:54pm Frank wrote on Dec 20^th, 2017 at 8:50pm: They don't suffer enough to stop it. That's because they co suffer in their struggle for supremacy. Each side believes they represent true Islam. And they will fight to death just to prove it.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #139 - Dec 21^st, 2017 at 6:18am

freediver wrote on Dec 20^th, 2017 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Nonsense. Iran would have intervened if there was any possibility that ISIS could overrun Iraq - which they clearly couldn't by the way

.

Why is it so clear? Does the fact it has taken the Iraqis ten years (and counting), with loads of foreign support, not tell you something about the risk posed by ISIS? Do you think they just couldn't be bothered wrapping it up or something?

That has nothing to do with whether or not ISIS were capable of overrunning the entire country. Seizing parts of the Iraqi sunni heartland is obviously a vastly different scenario to your BS claim that they would have overran the entire country - the overwhelming majority which includes the shiite dominated areas. It was never going to happen FD.

Quote:

And how would it have played out for ISIS's recruitment strategy if their main opponent on the battlefield was a Shite regime?

Umm... who do you think ISIS have been fighting all this time FD? How would you describe the the Iraqi regime - a "Shiite" one perhaps? And besides, both shiite militias as well as the Iranian military itself have been leading the retaking of ISIS held territory in Iraq.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #140 - Dec 21^st, 2017 at 8:39am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 6:18am:

And besides, both shiite militias as well as the Iranian military itself have been leading the retaking of ISIS held territory in Iraq.

Yes, but something tells me FD is going to notch this one up as one for Uncle. You know, Iraq is the next South Korea and everything.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #141 - Dec 21^st, 2017 at 9:55am

Karnal wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 8:39am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 6:18am:

And besides, both shiite militias as well as the Iranian military itself have been leading the retaking of ISIS held territory in Iraq.

Yes, but something tells me FD is going to notch this one up as one for Uncle. You know, Iraq is the next South Korea and everything.

The US spent 8 years failing to end the insurgency against their occupation (which included ISIS forbears) - but according to FD, the US could have finished ISIS in "3 hours". He hasn't quite got round to revealing how that could have been done - short of turning the country into a uninhabited nuclear wasteland.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #142 - Dec 21^st, 2017 at 10:58am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 9:55am:

Karnal wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 8:39am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 6:18am:

And besides, both shiite militias as well as the Iranian military itself have been leading the retaking of ISIS held territory in Iraq.

Yes, but something tells me FD is going to notch this one up as one for Uncle. You know, Iraq is the next South Korea and everything.

The US spent 8 years failing to end the insurgency against their occupation (which included ISIS forbears) - but according to FD, the US could have finished ISIS in "3 hours". He hasn't quite got round to revealing how that could have been done - short of turning the country into a uninhabited nuclear wasteland.

That would be Freeeedom, shurely.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #143 - Dec 21^st, 2017 at 11:03am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 9:55am:

Karnal wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 8:39am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 6:18am:

And besides, both shiite militias as well as the Iranian military itself have been leading the retaking of ISIS held territory in Iraq.

Yes, but something tells me FD is going to notch this one up as one for Uncle. You know, Iraq is the next South Korea and everything.

The US spent 8 years failing to end the insurgency against their occupation (which included ISIS forbears) - but according to FD, the US could have finished ISIS in "3 hours".

He meant 3 minutes.

That's how long it would take to deliver a much needed nuclear bomb.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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freediver

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #144 - Dec 21^st, 2017 at 12:38pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 6:18am:

freediver wrote on Dec 20^th, 2017 at 9:17pm:

Quote:

Nonsense. Iran would have intervened if there was any possibility that ISIS could overrun Iraq - which they clearly couldn't by the way

.

Why is it so clear? Does the fact it has taken the Iraqis ten years (and counting), with loads of foreign support, not tell you something about the risk posed by ISIS? Do you think they just couldn't be bothered wrapping it up or something?

That has nothing to do with whether or not ISIS were capable of overrunning the entire country. Seizing parts of the Iraqi sunni heartland is obviously a vastly different scenario to your BS claim that they would have overran the entire country - the overwhelming majority which includes the shiite dominated areas. It was never going to happen FD.

Quote:

And how would it have played out for ISIS's recruitment strategy if their main opponent on the battlefield was a Shite regime?

Umm... who do you think ISIS have been fighting all this time FD? How would you describe the the Iraqi regime - a "Shiite" one perhaps? And besides, both shiite militias as well as the Iranian military itself have been leading the retaking of ISIS held territory in Iraq.

Why does the ten years taken by Iraq to get rid of ISIS, with foreign assistance, have nothing to do with whether ISIS could have continued expanding without that foreign assistance? Are you suggesting the military outcome has nothing to do with relative military ability?

Also, are you honestly suggesting that it is not possible for Sunnis to militarily control Shites?

Do you imagine some natural geographical boundary to ISIS that they would have politely declined from crossing?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #145 - Dec 21^st, 2017 at 3:20pm

freediver wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 12:38pm:

Why does the ten years taken by Iraq to get rid of ISIS, with foreign assistance, have nothing to do with whether ISIS could have continued expanding without that foreign assistance? Are you suggesting the military outcome has nothing to do with relative military ability?

How many shiite centres has ISIS overrun FD? I'll give you a hint - zero. They overrun places like Fallujah and Mosul because they are hotbeds of sunni disaffection who hate ISIS only slightly less than the Baghdad regime. ISIS conquests have been far more to do with getting key sunni tribal leaders on side than it has with brute military force. Do you think its just a coincidence that the cities ISIS conquered just happened to be the cities that were the main centres of the insurgency against the US occupation? So of course its going to take 10+ years to root out insurgents from those places. The US certainly couldn't do it in ~8 years of occupation with far stronger forces than the Iraqis.

freediver wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 12:38pm:

Also, are you honestly suggesting that it is not possible for Sunnis to militarily control Shites?

I'm honestly suggesting its not possible for ISIS to militarily control the whole of Iraq. Obviously.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #146 - Dec 21^st, 2017 at 4:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 3:20pm:

How many shiite centres has ISIS overrun FD? I'll give you a hint - zero. They overrun places like Fallujah and Mosul because they are hotbeds of sunni disaffection who hate ISIS only slightly less than the Baghdad regime. ISIS conquests have been far more to do with getting key sunni tribal leaders on side than it has with brute military force. Do you think its just a coincidence that the cities ISIS conquered just happened to be the cities that were the main centres of the insurgency against the US occupation? So of course its going to take 10+ years to root out insurgents from those places. The US certainly couldn't do it in ~8 years of occupation with far stronger forces than the Iraqis.

The Islamic state had no trouble taking Kurdish parts of Iraq and Syria with the usual Islamic rape and pillage while selling Kurdish women into slavery.

Not a single coalition soldier was killed in the Kurdish parts of Iraq there was no insurgency there against the US or its allies.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #147 - Dec 21^st, 2017 at 4:25pm

Baron, can you elaborate on which Kurdish parts of Syria and Iraq ISIS "had no trouble taking"?

ISIS territory overwhelmingly consisted of sparsely inhabited desert, and the only urban centres they controlled were arab sunni strongholds who only hated ISIS slightly less than the shiite/Allawite regimes that were previously oppressing them.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #148 - Dec 21^st, 2017 at 5:34pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 11:03am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 9:55am:

Karnal wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 8:39am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 6:18am:

And besides, both shiite militias as well as the Iranian military itself have been leading the retaking of ISIS held territory in Iraq.

Yes, but something tells me FD is going to notch this one up as one for Uncle. You know, Iraq is the next South Korea and everything.

The US spent 8 years failing to end the insurgency against their occupation (which included ISIS forbears) - but according to FD, the US could have finished ISIS in "3 hours".

He meant 3 minutes.

That's how long it would take to deliver a much needed nuclear bomb.

You Zionists would probably be a bit miffed at that, dear. We wouldn't want to hurt your feelings by obliterating Israel, now would we?

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freediver

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Re: Muslims suffer the most from 'Islamic' terrorism
Reply #149 - Dec 21^st, 2017 at 8:40pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 3:20pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 12:38pm:

Why does the ten years taken by Iraq to get rid of ISIS, with foreign assistance, have nothing to do with whether ISIS could have continued expanding without that foreign assistance? Are you suggesting the military outcome has nothing to do with relative military ability?

How many shiite centres has ISIS overrun FD? I'll give you a hint - zero. They overrun places like Fallujah and Mosul because they are hotbeds of sunni disaffection who hate ISIS only slightly less than the Baghdad regime. ISIS conquests have been far more to do with getting key sunni tribal leaders on side than it has with brute military force. Do you think its just a coincidence that the cities ISIS conquered just happened to be the cities that were the main centres of the insurgency against the US occupation? So of course its going to take 10+ years to root out insurgents from those places. The US certainly couldn't do it in ~8 years of occupation with far stronger forces than the Iraqis.

freediver wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 12:38pm:

Also, are you honestly suggesting that it is not possible for Sunnis to militarily control Shites?

I'm honestly suggesting its not possible for ISIS to militarily control the whole of Iraq. Obviously.

The US did it in a few days. The Iraqi regime is not 'rooting out' insurgents from an area it controls. It is trying to regain areas it has lost control of.

You still have not answered the fundamental question - why do you insist that Sunni ISIS would have been incapable of ruling over Shites? The baathists were largely Sunni and attracted the ire of the Shites. They even went to war with Iran over what were largely ideological differences. ISIS held the entire Iraqi military at bay for a decade, despite all the foreign support the Iraqis were getting. Yet you have somehow convinced yourself that if they had defeated the army they would have shrunk from an even greater threat - Shite civilians.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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