Australian Politics Forum - Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...

Lord Herbert

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Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #30 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:53pm

Jasin wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:46pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Well he was definitely an arrogant pig. He was my neighbour for quite a few years. I mentioned it in another thread. In person he was absolutely nothing like the affable, easy going persona he put forth on the tv.

Name dropper.

Who else are your neighbours?

Go on, you can tell me. Tongue

And thus ... the issue gets treated as gossip .. and the fact that there is a tsunami of people coming forward to disclose sexual abuse gets neatly stepped over.

I've been saying this for a long time .. and met with tremendous resistance on this forum for it .. but this is huge. I don't know any women that have not been sexually harassed or abused. Most of us many times. Daily, weekly, monthly ... for years.

i am sexually harrassed on this very forum!

Not a word from any of you. except to call me a manhater .. or a femonazi .. when i'm speaking for men too.

This is huge. I hope the people who are inclined to conduct themselves in that manner are beginning to see that's it's just not the done thing anymore and re-evaluate.

Not by me you're not!
It's the other way around. Tongue

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mothra

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Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #31 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:58pm

Jasin wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:46pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Well he was definitely an arrogant pig. He was my neighbour for quite a few years. I mentioned it in another thread. In person he was absolutely nothing like the affable, easy going persona he put forth on the tv.

Name dropper.

Who else are your neighbours?

Go on, you can tell me. Tongue

And thus ... the issue gets treated as gossip .. and the fact that there is a tsunami of people coming forward to disclose sexual abuse gets neatly stepped over.

I've been saying this for a long time .. and met with tremendous resistance on this forum for it .. but this is huge. I don't know any women that have not been sexually harassed or abused. Most of us many times. Daily, weekly, monthly ... for years.

i am sexually harrassed on this very forum!

Not a word from any of you. except to call me a manhater .. or a femonazi .. when i'm speaking for men too.

This is huge. I hope the people who are inclined to conduct themselves in that manner are beginning to see that's it's just not the done thing anymore and re-evaluate.

Not by me you're not!
It's the other way around. Tongue

Provide one example, lady.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Gordon

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Gordon
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Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #32 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:05pm

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Well he was definitely an arrogant pig. He was my neighbour for quite a few years. I mentioned it in another thread. In person he was absolutely nothing like the affable, easy going persona he put forth on the tv.

Name dropper.

Who else are your neighbours?

Go on, you can tell me. Tongue

And thus ... the issue gets treated as gossip .. and the fact that there is a tsunami of people coming forward to disclose sexual abuse gets neatly stepped over.

I've been saying this for a long time .. and met with tremendous resistance on this forum for it .. but this is huge. I don't know any women that have not been sexually harassed or abused. Most of us many times. Daily, weekly, monthly ... for years.

i am sexually harrassed on this very forum!

Not a word from any of you. except to call me a manhater .. or a femonazi .. when i'm speaking for men too.

This is huge. I hope the people who are inclined to conduct themselves in that manner are beginning to see that's it's just not the done thing anymore and re-evaluate.

Moths as I said in another thread, when I started in TV production I was warned about working with him as he had a rep as being a bully and total carnt. I heard terrible stories about the way he treated people.

Why is the focus of he behavior only on the way he was sleazy towards women?

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mothra

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Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #33 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:06pm

Gordon wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:05pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Well he was definitely an arrogant pig. He was my neighbour for quite a few years. I mentioned it in another thread. In person he was absolutely nothing like the affable, easy going persona he put forth on the tv.

Name dropper.

Who else are your neighbours?

Go on, you can tell me. Tongue

And thus ... the issue gets treated as gossip .. and the fact that there is a tsunami of people coming forward to disclose sexual abuse gets neatly stepped over.

I've been saying this for a long time .. and met with tremendous resistance on this forum for it .. but this is huge. I don't know any women that have not been sexually harassed or abused. Most of us many times. Daily, weekly, monthly ... for years.

i am sexually harrassed on this very forum!

Not a word from any of you. except to call me a manhater .. or a femonazi .. when i'm speaking for men too.

This is huge. I hope the people who are inclined to conduct themselves in that manner are beginning to see that's it's just not the done thing anymore and re-evaluate.

Moths as I said in another thread, when I started in TV production I was warned about working with him as he had a rep as being a bully and total carnt. I heard terrible stories about the way he treated people.

Why is the focus of he behavior only on the way he was sleazy towards women?

I beg your pardon. Did we forget to represent white men again?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Jasin

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Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #34 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:08pm

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:58pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:46pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Well he was definitely an arrogant pig. He was my neighbour for quite a few years. I mentioned it in another thread. In person he was absolutely nothing like the affable, easy going persona he put forth on the tv.

Name dropper.

Who else are your neighbours?

Go on, you can tell me. Tongue

And thus ... the issue gets treated as gossip .. and the fact that there is a tsunami of people coming forward to disclose sexual abuse gets neatly stepped over.

I've been saying this for a long time .. and met with tremendous resistance on this forum for it .. but this is huge. I don't know any women that have not been sexually harassed or abused. Most of us many times. Daily, weekly, monthly ... for years.

i am sexually harrassed on this very forum!

Not a word from any of you. except to call me a manhater .. or a femonazi .. when i'm speaking for men too.

This is huge. I hope the people who are inclined to conduct themselves in that manner are beginning to see that's it's just not the done thing anymore and re-evaluate.

Not by me you're not!
It's the other way around. Tongue

Provide one example, lady.

1. I ain't your little 'pretty lady-boy'. If you want to Fag-Hag, then the little Darlings of Darlinghurst is your place to be.
2. You've been on my case since I returned here from my 5'ish year ban. I'm flattered that you missed me for so long.

3. I wonder if my seeking Agnes's attentions was a subconscious cry for help in relation to your focus on me?

4. The answer is "No." I would rather stay Celibate with a 7 year itch.

5. I don't know why you try? You come across as a woman who couldn't raise a cake in an oven, let alone the interests of any male 'members' on this Forum.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Gordon

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Gordon
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Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #35 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:10pm

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:06pm:

Gordon wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:05pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Well he was definitely an arrogant pig. He was my neighbour for quite a few years. I mentioned it in another thread. In person he was absolutely nothing like the affable, easy going persona he put forth on the tv.

Name dropper.

Who else are your neighbours?

Go on, you can tell me. Tongue

And thus ... the issue gets treated as gossip .. and the fact that there is a tsunami of people coming forward to disclose sexual abuse gets neatly stepped over.

I've been saying this for a long time .. and met with tremendous resistance on this forum for it .. but this is huge. I don't know any women that have not been sexually harassed or abused. Most of us many times. Daily, weekly, monthly ... for years.

i am sexually harrassed on this very forum!

Not a word from any of you. except to call me a manhater .. or a femonazi .. when i'm speaking for men too.

This is huge. I hope the people who are inclined to conduct themselves in that manner are beginning to see that's it's just not the done thing anymore and re-evaluate.

Moths as I said in another thread, when I started in TV production I was warned about working with him as he had a rep as being a bully and total carnt. I heard terrible stories about the way he treated people.

Why is the focus of he behavior only on the way he was sleazy towards women?

I beg your pardon. Did we forget to represent white men again?

No doubt there would be instances where he treated women terribly without the sexual overtones.

I'm talking about treating people badly. Do you only hold people accountable when it's of a sexual nature by a man towards a woman?

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IBI

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mothra

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Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #36 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:11pm

Jasin wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:08pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:58pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:46pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Well he was definitely an arrogant pig. He was my neighbour for quite a few years. I mentioned it in another thread. In person he was absolutely nothing like the affable, easy going persona he put forth on the tv.

Name dropper.

Who else are your neighbours?

Go on, you can tell me. Tongue

And thus ... the issue gets treated as gossip .. and the fact that there is a tsunami of people coming forward to disclose sexual abuse gets neatly stepped over.

I've been saying this for a long time .. and met with tremendous resistance on this forum for it .. but this is huge. I don't know any women that have not been sexually harassed or abused. Most of us many times. Daily, weekly, monthly ... for years.

i am sexually harrassed on this very forum!

Not a word from any of you. except to call me a manhater .. or a femonazi .. when i'm speaking for men too.

This is huge. I hope the people who are inclined to conduct themselves in that manner are beginning to see that's it's just not the done thing anymore and re-evaluate.

Not by me you're not!
It's the other way around. Tongue

Provide one example, lady.

1. I ain't your little 'pretty lady-boy'. If you want to Fag-Hag, then the little Darlings of Darlinghurst is your place to be.
2. You've been on my case since I returned here from my 5'ish year ban. I'm flattered that you missed me for so long.

3. I wonder if my seeking Agnes's attentions was a subconscious cry for help in relation to your focus on me?

4. The answer is "No." I would rather stay Celibate with a 7 year itch.

5. I don't know why you try? You come across as a woman who couldn't raise a cake in an oven, let alone the interests of any male 'members' on this Forum.

You;re not any kind of boy. You;re a ridiculous old woman who came onto the forum with a shithouse Mellie impersonation and got busted .. then changed tacks.

In any event ... you're a raving loony. I don't think anyone takes you seriously, except for the psycho squad, and they're not known for their reason.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Jasin

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Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #37 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:12pm

Gordon wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:10pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:06pm:

Gordon wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:05pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Well he was definitely an arrogant pig. He was my neighbour for quite a few years. I mentioned it in another thread. In person he was absolutely nothing like the affable, easy going persona he put forth on the tv.

Name dropper.

Who else are your neighbours?

Go on, you can tell me. Tongue

And thus ... the issue gets treated as gossip .. and the fact that there is a tsunami of people coming forward to disclose sexual abuse gets neatly stepped over.

I've been saying this for a long time .. and met with tremendous resistance on this forum for it .. but this is huge. I don't know any women that have not been sexually harassed or abused. Most of us many times. Daily, weekly, monthly ... for years.

i am sexually harrassed on this very forum!

Not a word from any of you. except to call me a manhater .. or a femonazi .. when i'm speaking for men too.

This is huge. I hope the people who are inclined to conduct themselves in that manner are beginning to see that's it's just not the done thing anymore and re-evaluate.

Moths as I said in another thread, when I started in TV production I was warned about working with him as he had a rep as being a bully and total carnt. I heard terrible stories about the way he treated people.

Why is the focus of he behavior only on the way he was sleazy towards women?

I beg your pardon. Did we forget to represent white men again?

No doubt there would be instances where he treated women terribly without the sexual overtones.

I'm talking about treating people badly. Do you only hold people accountable when it's of a sexual nature by a man towards a woman?

He was a dead-set 'over-achiever' who's life was so important, that no-one else, except himself mattered.
Because he considered himself so good, he took on more than he could handle ...fondle.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Jasin

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Posts: 47421
Gender: male

Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #38 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:14pm

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:11pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:08pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:58pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:46pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Well he was definitely an arrogant pig. He was my neighbour for quite a few years. I mentioned it in another thread. In person he was absolutely nothing like the affable, easy going persona he put forth on the tv.

Name dropper.

Who else are your neighbours?

Go on, you can tell me. Tongue

And thus ... the issue gets treated as gossip .. and the fact that there is a tsunami of people coming forward to disclose sexual abuse gets neatly stepped over.

I've been saying this for a long time .. and met with tremendous resistance on this forum for it .. but this is huge. I don't know any women that have not been sexually harassed or abused. Most of us many times. Daily, weekly, monthly ... for years.

i am sexually harrassed on this very forum!

Not a word from any of you. except to call me a manhater .. or a femonazi .. when i'm speaking for men too.

This is huge. I hope the people who are inclined to conduct themselves in that manner are beginning to see that's it's just not the done thing anymore and re-evaluate.

Not by me you're not!
It's the other way around. Tongue

Provide one example, lady.

1. I ain't your little 'pretty lady-boy'. If you want to Fag-Hag, then the little Darlings of Darlinghurst is your place to be.
2. You've been on my case since I returned here from my 5'ish year ban. I'm flattered that you missed me for so long.

3. I wonder if my seeking Agnes's attentions was a subconscious cry for help in relation to your focus on me?

4. The answer is "No." I would rather stay Celibate with a 7 year itch.

5. I don't know why you try? You come across as a woman who couldn't raise a cake in an oven, let alone the interests of any male 'members' on this Forum.

You;re not any kind of boy. You;re a ridiculous old woman who came onto the forum with a shithouse Mellie impersonation and got busted .. then changed tacks.

In any event ... you're a raving loony. I don't think anyone takes you seriously, except for the psycho squad, and they're not known for their reason.

You didn't have to be so nasty.
Cry

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Australian Politics

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Canberra
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Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #39 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:20pm

A joint ABC/Fairfax investigation has uncovered claims from a number of coworkers from in the late 1980s and 1990s who say the well-known buggerwit was actually more of a monster in his approach to pulling roots and just general treatment of other people and plants.

These allegations mirror the Harvey Weinstein scandal in the United States, with women all over the world revealing their experiences of workplace sexual harassment, and perpetrators only being held accountable when their careers are winding down and the forces protecting them are no longer employed.

Aside from generally grubby behaviour, this particular personality has also been accused of showing young women videos of women smacking donkeys – a sure sign of how someone who got famous spreading horse poo across flowers should probably not be given that much power from a media juggernaut like Channel 9.

“He’s a horrible, horrible, horrible man. He’s a dreadful, dreadful piece of work … he was a really dirty old man.” said one Channel 9 executive, who probably could have done more to stop him at the time.

http://www.betootaadvocate.com/headlines/prominent-tv-horticulturalist-exposed-f...

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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mothra

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Australian Politics

Posts: 35243
Gender: female

Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #40 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:20pm

Gordon wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:10pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:06pm:

Gordon wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:05pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Well he was definitely an arrogant pig. He was my neighbour for quite a few years. I mentioned it in another thread. In person he was absolutely nothing like the affable, easy going persona he put forth on the tv.

Name dropper.

Who else are your neighbours?

Go on, you can tell me. Tongue

And thus ... the issue gets treated as gossip .. and the fact that there is a tsunami of people coming forward to disclose sexual abuse gets neatly stepped over.

I've been saying this for a long time .. and met with tremendous resistance on this forum for it .. but this is huge. I don't know any women that have not been sexually harassed or abused. Most of us many times. Daily, weekly, monthly ... for years.

i am sexually harrassed on this very forum!

Not a word from any of you. except to call me a manhater .. or a femonazi .. when i'm speaking for men too.

This is huge. I hope the people who are inclined to conduct themselves in that manner are beginning to see that's it's just not the done thing anymore and re-evaluate.

Moths as I said in another thread, when I started in TV production I was warned about working with him as he had a rep as being a bully and total carnt. I heard terrible stories about the way he treated people.

Why is the focus of he behavior only on the way he was sleazy towards women?

I beg your pardon. Did we forget to represent white men again?

No doubt there would be instances where he treated women terribly without the sexual overtones.

I'm talking about treating people badly. Do you only hold people accountable when it's of a sexual nature by a man towards a woman?

Wow ... that really went over your head, yeah. I have to start a long way back with you, If you actually think about what i say, your daughter will thank me.

(please don;t report me for mentioning your daughter this time)

It's not about women and men at all. It's about behaviours. Entitlement.

Now, once you accept that, you appreciate at once that it isn't about the victim at all. You with me?

So .. we focus on the perpetrators. Yes? Of women and men and children.

You should have noticed by now that i tend to use gender non-specific terms. I do that to represent all variables. I'm an intersecionalist.

Now ... we have people being arseholes in positions of power. We have that power expressed professionally, by virtue of numbers, protection from repercussion, physical advantage, substances .. etc.

These are all of the things victims report their abusers as being. It seems that sexual abuse and harassment has this factor in common.

It just so happens that it tends to happen more to women than men.

Now i ask you to think about what factors may contribute to it happening more to women. And women being disinclined to come forward. Could it be the ways in which women are talked about and valued? Do you really, really think?

Anything you might want to point out to your daughter?

Anything you might want to have a look at in yourself?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35243 Gender:	Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ... Reply #41 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:23pm [quote author=JaSin link=1511732545/38#38 date=1 You didn't have to be so nasty. [/quote] Actually, i believe i did, Although it was more a consequence than driving force. Just how it plays out really. Truth.
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Gordon

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Australian Politics

Posts: 20493
Gordon
Gender: male

Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #42 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:23pm

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:20pm:

Gordon wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:10pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:06pm:

Gordon wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:05pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Black Orchid wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 2:05pm:

Well he was definitely an arrogant pig. He was my neighbour for quite a few years. I mentioned it in another thread. In person he was absolutely nothing like the affable, easy going persona he put forth on the tv.

Name dropper.

Who else are your neighbours?

Go on, you can tell me. Tongue

And thus ... the issue gets treated as gossip .. and the fact that there is a tsunami of people coming forward to disclose sexual abuse gets neatly stepped over.

I've been saying this for a long time .. and met with tremendous resistance on this forum for it .. but this is huge. I don't know any women that have not been sexually harassed or abused. Most of us many times. Daily, weekly, monthly ... for years.

i am sexually harrassed on this very forum!

Not a word from any of you. except to call me a manhater .. or a femonazi .. when i'm speaking for men too.

This is huge. I hope the people who are inclined to conduct themselves in that manner are beginning to see that's it's just not the done thing anymore and re-evaluate.

Moths as I said in another thread, when I started in TV production I was warned about working with him as he had a rep as being a bully and total carnt. I heard terrible stories about the way he treated people.

Why is the focus of he behavior only on the way he was sleazy towards women?

I beg your pardon. Did we forget to represent white men again?

No doubt there would be instances where he treated women terribly without the sexual overtones.

I'm talking about treating people badly. Do you only hold people accountable when it's of a sexual nature by a man towards a woman?

Wow ... that really went over your head, yeah. I have to start a long way back with you, If you actually think about what i say, your daughter will thank me.

(please don;t report me for mentioning your daughter this time)

It's not about women and men at all. It's about behaviours. Entitlement.

Now, once you accept that, you appreciate at once that it isn't about the victim at all. You with me?

So .. we focus on the perpetrators. Yes? Of women and men and children.

You should have noticed by now that i tend to use gender non-specific terms. I do that to represent all variables. I'm an intersecionalist.

Now ... we have people being arseholes in positions of power. We have that power expressed professionally, by virtue of numbers, protection from repercussion, physical advantage, substances .. etc.

These are all of the things victims report their abusers as being. It seems that sexual abuse and harassment has this factor in common.

It just so happens that it tends to happen more to women than men.

Now i ask you to think about what factors may contribute to it happening more to women. And women being disinclined to come forward. Could it be the ways in which women are talked about and valued? Do you really, really think?

Anything you might want to point out to your daughter?

Anything you might want to have a look at in yourself?

Yeah BS. Men are just as hesitant to make a deal out of being bullied or badly treated because it's not manly to admit being weak.

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mothra

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Re: Don Burke exposed as a monster dickhead ...
Reply #43 - Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:24pm

Gordon wrote on Nov 27^th, 2017 at 3:23pm: