Australian Politics Forum - The Islamic Way

Auggie

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #150 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

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Karnal

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #151 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

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Auggie

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The Bull Moose

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #152 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:15pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Would you like to compare what people ‘believe’ as opposed to what’s in scripture?

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Karnal

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #153 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Actually, scrap that. Allow me to show some backbone for once in my spineless life.

Many Muslims do indeed believe in death for apostasy. Many Muslims are also cruel, brutal, misogynistic and bigoted. And yes, some of this can be attributed to the zealous tone taken in the Quran.

I believe such Muslims are apostates. There is only one God, and the essence of that God, expressed in all the spiritual texts we have, is mercy and oneness. Forget what hollow dogma people express with their tongues, what they express with their hearts and deeds is the true religion. What people believe intellectually is only important insofar as it assists their deeds. I know atheists that are far more spiritual that the most zealous Bible or Quran bashers.

Me? If we went around killing those without true faith, we'd have very few humans left.

But that's just me.

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Auggie

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #154 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:42pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Actually, scrap that. Allow me to show some backbone for once in my spineless life.

Many Muslims do indeed believe in death for apostasy. Many Muslims are also cruel, brutal, misogynistic and bigoted. And yes, some of this can be attributed to the zealous tone taken in the Quran.

I believe such Muslims are apostates. There is only one God, and the essence of that God, expressed in all the spiritual texts we have, is mercy and oneness. Forget what hollow dogma people express with their tongues, what they express with their hearts and deeds is the true religion. What people believe intellectually is only important insofar as it assists their deeds. I know atheists that are far more spiritual that the most zealous Bible or Quran bashers.

Me? If we went around killing those without true faith, we'd have very few humans left.

But that's just me.

Now you’re being an apologist as opposed to a reformer. You’re claiming that Islam doesn’t teach slaying infidels and offensive jihad and that it never did. This is utterly false. Islam imposed universal obligations on all Muslims to support the establishment of the caliphate and an Islamic state.

What a reformer does (and what I expect you and Gandalf to do) is to acknowledge that Islam is a totalitarian, militant and absolutist religion but that these aspects are wrong and are no longer applicable. This is what a real reformer does.

If you want to show spine, show it by acknowledging that Islam teaches the slaying of infidels but that you don’t supoort this idea.

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Yadda

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #155 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:48pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm:

Many Muslims do indeed believe in death for apostasy.

Many Muslims are also cruel, brutal, misogynistic and bigoted.

I believe such Muslims are apostates.

How can your view be the correct view, for the moslem, Karnal,
when Allah, in the inerrant Koran, plainly says exactly the opposite ?

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

"Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred...."
Koran 58.22

"O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers."
Koran 9.23

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

.

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm:

There is only one God, and the essence of that God, expressed in all the spiritual texts we have, is mercy and oneness. [NOT IN THE KORAN]

Forget what hollow dogma people express with their tongues,

what they express with their hearts and deeds is the true religion.

[TRUE KARNAL ------- > http://thereligionofpeace.com/ ]

What people believe intellectually is only important insofar as it assists their deeds.

I know atheists that are far more spiritual that the most zealous Bible or Quran bashers.

Me? If we went around killing those without true faith, we'd have very few humans left.

But that's just me.

No Karnal,

This quote, much better, speaks of you, and of yours......

Of those who turn away from truth.....

Quote:

When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity.

To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself.

- Theodore Dalrymple

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #156 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:30am

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:42pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Actually, scrap that. Allow me to show some backbone for once in my spineless life.

Many Muslims do indeed believe in death for apostasy. Many Muslims are also cruel, brutal, misogynistic and bigoted. And yes, some of this can be attributed to the zealous tone taken in the Quran.

I believe such Muslims are apostates. There is only one God, and the essence of that God, expressed in all the spiritual texts we have, is mercy and oneness. Forget what hollow dogma people express with their tongues, what they express with their hearts and deeds is the true religion. What people believe intellectually is only important insofar as it assists their deeds. I know atheists that are far more spiritual that the most zealous Bible or Quran bashers.

Me? If we went around killing those without true faith, we'd have very few humans left.

But that's just me.

Now you’re being an apologist as opposed to a reformer. You’re claiming that Islam doesn’t teach slaying infidels and offensive jihad and that it never did. This is utterly false. Islam imposed universal obligations on all Muslims to support the establishment of the caliphate and an Islamic state.

What a reformer does (and what I expect you and Gandalf to do) is to acknowledge that Islam is a totalitarian, militant and absolutist religion but that these aspects are wrong and are no longer applicable. This is what a real reformer does.

If you want to show spine, show it by acknowledging that Islam teaches the slaying of infidels but that you don’t supoort this idea.

Not at alll. The 5 pillars of Islam is Islam. It's incompatible with slaying infidels, and every Muslim I've ever met says the same. Jihad is a spiritual struggle, as every schoolboy knows.

Those who slay infidels are the apostates. They're deluded about the true message of God and His prophets, including Muhammed. Don't listen to me. Read the Quran. Read every other spiritual text you can get your hands on.

But most importantly, find a spiritual practice you can live with. All else - killing infidels or apostates or merely spending your days here blaming others for your woes - is false religion.

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Yadda

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #157 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:31am

Karnal wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:30am:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:42pm:

Now you’re being an apologist as opposed to a reformer. You’re claiming that Islam doesn’t teach slaying infidels and offensive jihad and that it never did. This is utterly false. Islam imposed universal obligations on all Muslims to support the establishment of the caliphate and an Islamic state.

What a reformer does (and what I expect you and Gandalf to do) is to acknowledge that Islam is a totalitarian, militant and absolutist religion but that these aspects are wrong and are no longer applicable. This is what a real reformer does.

If you want to show spine, show it by acknowledging that Islam teaches the slaying of infidels but that you don’t supoort this idea.

Not at alll. The 5 pillars of Islam is Islam.

It's incompatible with slaying infidels, and every Muslim I've ever met says the same.

Jihad is a spiritual struggle, as every schoolboy knows.

Those who slay infidels are the apostates. They're deluded about the true message of God and His prophets, including Muhammed. Don't listen to me. Read the Quran. Read every other spiritual text you can get your hands on.

Your LIES are so easy to disprove K.

"Those who slay infidels are the apostates.
....Don't listen to me.
Read the Quran."

- Karnal

.

WHAT ALLAH SAID.....

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
Koran 9.111

"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
Koran 4.49

"Those who believed and left their homes and strove for the cause of allah, and those who took them in and helped them - these are the believers in truth. For them is pardon, and bountiful provision."
Koran 8.74

"Unless ye go forth, he will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For allah hath power over all things"
Koran 9.39

"Those who leave their homes in the cause of allah, and are then slain or die,- On them will allah bestow verily a goodly provision: Truly allah is he who bestows the best provision"
Koran 22.58

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

WHAT MOHAMMED SAID.....

"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadith/bukhari #004.052.065
hadith/bukhari #004.052.080

n.b.

......"He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause."

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadith/bukhari #001.002.025

.

"The Prophet said, "Nobody who dies and finds good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah's Cause)." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.053

"The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is! Were it not for some men amongst the believers who dislike to be left behind me and whom I cannot provide with means of conveyance, I would certainly never remain behind any Sariya' (army-unit) setting out in Allah's Cause. By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.054

"The Prophet said, "Nobody who enters Paradise likes to go back to the world even if he got everything on the earth, except a Mujahid who wishes to return to the world so that he may be martyred ten times because of the dignity he receives (from Allah)." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.072

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #158 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 12:07pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:21pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:06pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:31pm:

He only does that with the hadith's. With the Quran, he finds the most ambiguous translation he can, quotes that, and makes up a meaning, often the exact opposite of how other Muslims translate it.

Strange - this is actually encouraged in Sunni Islam.

We call this hermeneutics. You?

WE might call it that.

Muslims call it apostasy.

Apostasy is when Muslims claim there is a god other than Allah, old boy, or no god at all.

Christians similarly look down upon those who say the same about Jehovah and his son, Yeheshua.

You?

Muslims believe in killing apostates. You?

Would you like to quote the chapter and verse? We can compare it to the Torah.

Actually, scrap that. Allow me to show some backbone for once in my spineless life.

Many Muslims do indeed believe in death for apostasy. Many Muslims are also cruel, brutal, misogynistic and bigoted. And yes, some of this can be attributed to the zealous tone taken in the Quran.

I believe such Muslims are apostates. There is only one God, and the essence of that God, expressed in all the spiritual texts we have, is mercy and oneness. Forget what hollow dogma people express with their tongues, what they express with their hearts and deeds is the true religion. What people believe intellectually is only important insofar as it assists their deeds. I know atheists that are far more spiritual that the most zealous Bible or Quran bashers.

Me? If we went around killing those without true faith, we'd have very few humans left.

But that's just me.

Apostates from Islam, or from your religion? Aren't you just doing Augie's trick of redefining their religion for them?

Quote:

Not at alll. The 5 pillars of Islam is Islam. It's incompatible with slaying infidels

How so?

Quote:

Those who slay infidels are the apostates.

Was Muhammad an apostate?

Quote:

They're deluded about the true message of God and His prophets, including Muhammed.

Was Muhammad deluded about the true meaning of Muhammad?

Quote:

Don't listen to me.

Thanks for the advice.

Quote:

Read the Quran.

The Quran says to slaughter the infidel.

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« Last Edit: Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 12:14pm by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Auggie

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #159 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 1:29pm

K, now you're just virtue-signalling and equivocating.

Let's say for hypothetical sake I was a committed Nazi from birth; my family are Nazis, I read Nazi material and my whole identity was Nazism. But, I shunned violence, and militarism because I found those things abhorrent.

Imagine I come on here and say: "Nazism is a peaceful ideology." Most people, including yourself would laugh at me. But, let's say you decide to go along with it, and debate me.

Your argument would quote Mein Kampf and all the verses in it that support the Nazi ideology. For e.g. the idea of Labensraum, and Hitler's view on Slavs, Karnal says: "Look at what Hitler said about Slavs; he said they were inferior and the lowest of society. What do you say to that?" As a committed Nazi, I respond: "Well, Hitler was talking about 'cultural' inferiority; he wasn't referring to them being sub-human...." You see now, how I'm interpreting Hitler's views to reconcile my identity?

Let's talk another example: what Hitler did (imagine the Sunnah of Hitler). Karnal says: "Hitler invaded Poland and France and wanted to conquer Europe, so he was warmonger who committed aggressive warfare." I then respond: "Well, actually no, the rest of Europe was threatening Germany; they wouldn't eventually have accepted German dominance in Europe despite appeasement, and they did nothing about Soviet Communism in the East. Hitler was also protecting German minorities in those countries. He was engaging in self-defence. IN FACT, AFTER HITLER CONQUERED PARIS, THE FRENCH SURRENDERED AND HITLER CREATED VICHY FRANCE, GIVING THE FRENCH AUTONOMY. Is this the action of an offensive warmonger? Wouldn't Germany have just conquered all of France if he were a warmonger? The French ceased and Hitler gave them their own State."

Let's have another example: the Holocaust. Karnal says: "The Nazis enslaved people and exterminated them. This isn't the action of a benevolent conqueror?" Caesar replies: "Well, they were enemies of the state. Their internment was only designed to be temporary. Did people die? Sure, but they weren't innocent because they wouldn't have ever accepted the Nazi ideology and the supremacy of a German-dominated Europe. If they simply became Nazi converts and accepted Hitler's supremacy, maybe they Hitler would've shown mercy." You see where this line of thinking is similar to the Muslim apologists?

Now, you might argue: "Well Caesar, Hitler isn't a Prophet; God didn't dictate Mein Kampf to Hitler, and therefore the comparison is not valid". To which I respond: "No, K, I believe that Hitler was inspired by superior thinking and rationale and that he was smarter than the average human..... His views would've made a better world; if only people had just accepted his ideology and a German-dominated Europe."

You see the similarities??

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21897 A cat with a view	Re: The Islamic Way Reply #160 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:01pm Karnal said.... Quote: They're deluded about the true message of God and His prophets, including Muhammed. freediver wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 12:07pm: Was Muhammad deluded about the true meaning of Muhammad? LOL !
Back to top	"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31 IP Logged

Karnal

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #161 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:16pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 1:29pm:

K, now you're just virtue-signalling and equivocating.

Let's say for hypothetical sake I was a committed Nazi from birth; my family are Nazis, I read Nazi material and my whole identity was Nazism. But, I shunned violence, and militarism because I found those things abhorrent.

Imagine I come on here and say: "Nazism is a peaceful ideology." Most people, including yourself would laugh at me. But, let's say you decide to go along with it, and debate me.

Your argument would quote Mein Kampf and all the verses in it that support the Nazi ideology. For e.g. the idea of Labensraum, and Hitler's view on Slavs, Karnal says: "Look at what Hitler said about Slavs; he said they were inferior and the lowest of society. What do you say to that?" As a committed Nazi, I respond: "Well, Hitler was talking about 'cultural' inferiority; he wasn't referring to them being sub-human...." You see now, how I'm interpreting Hitler's views to reconcile my identity?

Let's talk another example: what Hitler did (imagine the Sunnah of Hitler). Karnal says: "Hitler invaded Poland and France and wanted to conquer Europe, so he was warmonger who committed aggressive warfare." I then respond: "Well, actually no, the rest of Europe was threatening Germany; they wouldn't eventually have accepted German dominance in Europe despite appeasement, and they did nothing about Soviet Communism in the East. Hitler was also protecting German minorities in those countries. He was engaging in self-defence. IN FACT, AFTER HITLER CONQUERED PARIS, THE FRENCH SURRENDERED AND HITLER CREATED VICHY FRANCE, GIVING THE FRENCH AUTONOMY. Is this the action of an offensive warmonger? Wouldn't Germany have just conquered all of France if he were a warmonger? The French ceased and Hitler gave them their own State."

Let's have another example: the Holocaust. Karnal says: "The Nazis enslaved people and exterminated them. This isn't the action of a benevolent conqueror?" Caesar replies: "Well, they were enemies of the state. Their internment was only designed to be temporary. Did people die? Sure, but they weren't innocent because they wouldn't have ever accepted the Nazi ideology and the supremacy of a German-dominated Europe. If they simply became Nazi converts and accepted Hitler's supremacy, maybe they Hitler would've shown mercy." You see where this line of thinking is similar to the Muslim apologists?

Now, you might argue: "Well Caesar, Hitler isn't a Prophet; God didn't dictate Mein Kampf to Hitler, and therefore the comparison is not valid". To which I respond: "No, K, I believe that Hitler was inspired by superior thinking and rationale and that he was smarter than the average human..... His views would've made a better world; if only people had just accepted his ideology and a German-dominated Europe."

You see the similarities??

Nazism is an expansionist political movement, Augie. Islam is a spiritual creed. Good to see you arguing with yourself. FD and Yadda just agree with themselves.

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moses

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #162 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:34pm

Karnal wrote: Reply #156 - Today at 2:30am
Quote:

Not at alll. The 5 pillars of Islam is Islam. It's incompatible with slaying infidels,

Bulldust.

Quote:

The Shahadah is the first of the Five Pillars of Islam.

Shahadah:

"There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger."

This is the basic statement of the Islamic faith: anyone who cannot recite this wholeheartedly is not a Muslim.

When a Muslim recites this they proclaim:
•That Allah is the only God, and that Muhammad is his prophet
•That they personally accept this as true
•That they will obey all the commitments of Islam in their life

If there is no god but allah and muhammad is his prophet, they are bound to follow the commands of allah given to muhammad in the qur'an.

The qur'an is cited by muslim terrorists as the cause and motivation for islamic terrorism on a global scale.

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Auggie

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #163 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 4:29pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 1:29pm:

K, now you're just virtue-signalling and equivocating.

Let's say for hypothetical sake I was a committed Nazi from birth; my family are Nazis, I read Nazi material and my whole identity was Nazism. But, I shunned violence, and militarism because I found those things abhorrent.

Imagine I come on here and say: "Nazism is a peaceful ideology." Most people, including yourself would laugh at me. But, let's say you decide to go along with it, and debate me.

Your argument would quote Mein Kampf and all the verses in it that support the Nazi ideology. For e.g. the idea of Labensraum, and Hitler's view on Slavs, Karnal says: "Look at what Hitler said about Slavs; he said they were inferior and the lowest of society. What do you say to that?" As a committed Nazi, I respond: "Well, Hitler was talking about 'cultural' inferiority; he wasn't referring to them being sub-human...." You see now, how I'm interpreting Hitler's views to reconcile my identity?

Let's talk another example: what Hitler did (imagine the Sunnah of Hitler). Karnal says: "Hitler invaded Poland and France and wanted to conquer Europe, so he was warmonger who committed aggressive warfare." I then respond: "Well, actually no, the rest of Europe was threatening Germany; they wouldn't eventually have accepted German dominance in Europe despite appeasement, and they did nothing about Soviet Communism in the East. Hitler was also protecting German minorities in those countries. He was engaging in self-defence. IN FACT, AFTER HITLER CONQUERED PARIS, THE FRENCH SURRENDERED AND HITLER CREATED VICHY FRANCE, GIVING THE FRENCH AUTONOMY. Is this the action of an offensive warmonger? Wouldn't Germany have just conquered all of France if he were a warmonger? The French ceased and Hitler gave them their own State."

Let's have another example: the Holocaust. Karnal says: "The Nazis enslaved people and exterminated them. This isn't the action of a benevolent conqueror?" Caesar replies: "Well, they were enemies of the state. Their internment was only designed to be temporary. Did people die? Sure, but they weren't innocent because they wouldn't have ever accepted the Nazi ideology and the supremacy of a German-dominated Europe. If they simply became Nazi converts and accepted Hitler's supremacy, maybe they Hitler would've shown mercy." You see where this line of thinking is similar to the Muslim apologists?

Now, you might argue: "Well Caesar, Hitler isn't a Prophet; God didn't dictate Mein Kampf to Hitler, and therefore the comparison is not valid". To which I respond: "No, K, I believe that Hitler was inspired by superior thinking and rationale and that he was smarter than the average human..... His views would've made a better world; if only people had just accepted his ideology and a German-dominated Europe."

You see the similarities??

Nazism is an expansionist political movement, Augie. Islam is a spiritual creed. Good to see you arguing with yourself. FD and Yadda just agree with themselves.

Islam is also an expansionist political movement, Karnal. Nazism is also a spiritual creed. Good to see you arguing with yourself. Karnal just agrees himself.

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Frank

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #164 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 5:29pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Nazism is an expansionist political movement, Augie. Islam is a spiritual creed. Good to see you arguing with yourself. FD and Yadda just agree with themselves.

Is it? The extent of Islam's spiritualism is Submit and er... that's it!!!

It is a simple performative religion, as you would expect from anything that means Submission. It;'s entire claim on you is to DISPLAY, outwardly, your conformity.

There is no communing with your soul, your god, your conscience, there is no doubt, questions and wrestling with meaning - just ACT submissive and that's it.

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