Australian Politics Forum - The Islamic Way

Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: The Islamic Way Reply #240 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:05pm
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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: The Islamic Way Reply #241 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:05pm ..
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Brian Ross

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #242 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

No disputing that. However Christian attacks occur far more than you give credit for. In Africa, in India, in Europe, in the USA, Canada, etc. They occur and they are undertaken by Christians, Augie. Roll Eyes

There is no global, transnational organization that currently exists which seeks to establish a totalitarian Christian theocratic state.

There is. It's called the Catholic Church, Augie. Look at it's history. Tsk, tsk.

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

Christianity resisted the anti-Slavery push for a long, long time, Augie. In the US, Churches were still claiming Biblical inspiration for Slavery until the Civil War stopped them. Roll Eyes

So, did every other culture and religion resist slavery? What's your point? That because Christianity resisted it also, means that we shouldn't recognise that it was the first to abolish it?

Christianity didn't abolish it. Christians did. There is a difference, Augie.

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

How can I when there are severe doubts he existed at all? How can I when the Church controls the only source of information about him? How can I when his PR is so good? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

So, the answer is no. As far as anyone is aware, there is no historical, religious or otherwise evidence that Jesus Christ, in whatever form he took, was a warmongering bandit.

Lack of evidence simply suggests that the Church has been very careful in how Christ is interpreted. We do know that the Church deliberately distorted what Christ supposedly said to allow it to encourage Christians to go forth and conquer the world. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

Look up at how the Holy Ghost is treated. Look how Mary is treated. Look how Jesus himself is treated. The interpretations of the Church has markedly changed down the ages, Augie.

Those propositions have not changed over the centuries Brian.

Yes they have. Look at the Ecumenical Council of Nicea in 325 CE.

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Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

Most Muslims believe that the Q'ran is divinely inspired, Augie. Many fundamentalist Christians believe that The Bible is divinely inspired, particularly the King James version. I see little difference between the two beliefs.

First, most Muslims don't believe it's divinely-inspired; they believe it's the literal Word of God. Divine inspiration and the literal Word of God are two different things. When Paul wrote his letters he wasn't dictating the exact words God spoke to him was he? Also, the gospels aren't the dictation of the words of God are they?

I fail to see the difference, Augie. Both come from God (supposedly). Roll Eyes

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

It was still considered to be a part of Islam. Christianity turned it's back on Philosophy and Science for millennium.

The driving force behind that Golden Age was classical Greek philosophy. Sure, we had the dark ages, but we came back, didn't we?

Only because of the Muslims, Augie. Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #243 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

Christianity resisted the anti-Slavery push for a long, long time, Augie. In the US, Churches were still claiming Biblical inspiration for Slavery until the Civil War stopped them. Roll Eyes

So, did every other culture and religion resist slavery? What's your point? That because Christianity resisted it also, means that we shouldn't recognise that it was the first to abolish it?

Christianity didn't abolish it. Christians did. There is a difference, Augie. Roll Eyes

Brian, you just finished saying that Christianity was to blame for bringing the flu to the Americas. But you also say Christians, not Christianity, abolished slavery. Do you always slip in both directions, or is this a special occasion?

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

It was still considered to be a part of Islam. Christianity turned it's back on Philosophy and Science for millennium.

The driving force behind that Golden Age was classical Greek philosophy. Sure, we had the dark ages, but we came back, didn't we?

Only because of the Muslims, Augie. Roll Eyes

No Brian. Muslims are still in that dark age. Christian Europe recovered from it, despite the best efforts of Muslims to cut them off from the rest of western civilisation and the rest of the world. Oh, and they depopulated the coast of Italy and much of the rest of Europe by raiding it for sex slaves.

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Brian Ross

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #244 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:47pm

freediver wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 8:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 2:22pm:

We are talking about perceptions, rather than realities.

Why are you afraid to talk about the realities Brian? Why do you run in fear every time?

Questions, FD? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Does it matter? The Church approved of their actions, actively encouraged them, Augie.

What did they actually approve Brian? Are you still blaming the church for the flu virus? Would you like to take that back now that you realise how completely idiotic it is?

Questions, FD? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Can you? I've been thinking about this a great deal, Augie. I understand there are real difficulties in translating Mohammed's teachings to modern languages because of the lack of accents and the way words are used.

It is only difficult if you are a complete idiot Brian. If you can read and think for yourself, it is quite easy.

Ah, a statement for a change. An insulting one though. Tsk, tsk. We have seen how you interpret his words, FD. Roll Eyes

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I wonder how much of the interpretation of Mohammed's words are based upon misunderstanding of what he intended? Christ has had his words edited and re-edited, many times, which makes it easier to understand what he said (and changed the emphasis). There are whole Testament's missing from The Bible. Heresies were eliminated. How do you know what Christ supposedly said?

All we have is the Bible Brian. That is what defines the ideology. This would be true, even if Jesus was entirely fabricated. Again, if you can read, think for yourself, and are not a complete idiot, it is pretty easy to figure out what it says.

Tsk, tsk, another who believes what he is told by...the Church. Amazing that, hey, FD? Roll Eyes

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Isn't too much of that in the history of Christianity, either, Augie. Tsk, tsk.

Again, you just make stuff up Brian. Why do you think Europe's history played out in such a vastly different manner to that of the middle east? Do you know how much forgiveness and turning the other cheek there actually was? How is it you can so conveniently claim to know the unknowable while also insisting that you find the bleeding obvious to be incomprehensible?

Forgotten the Thirty Years War, FD? Over thirty million dead and all because some bloke nailed some bits of paper to a church door. Tsk, tsk. Not much forgiveness there... Roll Eyes

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We cannot sit down and objectively determine what a religion teaches when it's believers profess so many differences in what they believe in.

Yes you can Brian, unless you are a completel idiot, cannot read, and are incapable of thiking for yourself.

So, how do you tell what a Christian believes in or a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Hindu or a Jew, FD? You can claim you know what they should believe in but you can't prove they actually believe all that guff, now can you? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Don't they? Moses does. FD does. Yadda does.

Again Brian. Read. Think for yourself. If you are not a complete idiot you will figure it out.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Ad hominem arguments, FD? Really? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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There was no anti-Slavery movement amongst Christians either for most of Christianity's history, Augie. Tsk, tsk. Slavery was considered perfectly OK until the Friends decided otherwise.

BS. Europe has laregly lacked slavery from pretty close to the time it Christianised. There was a Christian-based anti-slavery movement regarding the new world from the moment Europeans entered the new world in large numbers. Again Brian, read, think for yourself. If you are not a complete idiot it will become obvious. You are doing the same thing with history you accuse religious people of doing with their religions. At some point, the truth has to matter, no matter how desperate you are to apologise for Islam's evil.

Tell that to the Europeans who owned slaves, FD. Tsk, tsk. Excuses, excuses all the time from you. You should be in your Apologists' thread, you realise? Roll Eyes

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You are falling into the trap that the New Testament is truthful, Augie.

No Brian. Merely that it says what it says, and that is what it teaches. Again, read, think for yourself, and if you are not a complete idiot it will be obvious. It is right there in black and white in the words of Augie that you quoted. The mind boggles at how completely you can misunderstand such a simple question

You are condemning me for questioning what The Bible claims, FD. I am thinking for myself. Unlike you, whom appears to accept at face value a heavily edited work created by the Church for it's own purposes. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Then be surprised. Read what Moses, et all claim, Augie and get back to us, OK?

No, don't be surprised. Brian is lying. He does not have a clue. It's just an endless stream of BS, and the moment you question him on it, it turns into a completely different stream of utter BS.

If I have lied, Augie will discover that, FD. I have no fear because I know I have not lied. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49400 At my desk.	Re: The Islamic Way Reply #245 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:49pm
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Brian Ross

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #246 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:54pm

freediver wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:38pm:

Christianity resisted the anti-Slavery push for a long, long time, Augie. In the US, Churches were still claiming Biblical inspiration for Slavery until the Civil War stopped them. Roll Eyes

So, did every other culture and religion resist slavery? What's your point? That because Christianity resisted it also, means that we shouldn't recognise that it was the first to abolish it?

Christianity didn't abolish it. Christians did. There is a difference, Augie. Roll Eyes

Brian, you just finished saying that Christianity was to blame for bringing the flu to the Americas. But you also say Christians, not Christianity, abolished slavery. Do you always slip in both directions, or is this a special occasion?

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. I have not slipped. You have, FD. Quote back to me where I made that claim, if you can. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Quote:

No Brian. Muslims are still in that dark age. Christian Europe recovered from it, despite the best efforts of Muslims to cut them off from the rest of western civilisation and the rest of the world. Oh, and they depopulated the coast of Italy and much of the rest of Europe by raiding it for sex slaves.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk, FD. I suggest you do some more research. You might be surprised where most of the Renassiance's learning came from. Look up the Library of Cordoba... Roll Eyes

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Auggie

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #247 - Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

There is. It's called the Catholic Church, Augie. Look at it's history. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Brian, as much as I don't like the Catholic Church for various reasons, they do not want a theocratic totalitarian state. The Catholic Church lost that battle a long time ago.

Your comment was completely misguided.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Christianity didn't abolish it. Christians did. There is a difference, Augie. Roll Eyes

So when they used Christian theology and the teachings of Jesus as inspiration, were they doing so as Christians, or as secular Englishmen?

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Lack of evidence simply suggests that the Church has been very careful in how Christ is interpreted. We do know that the Church deliberately distorted what Christ supposedly said to allow it to encourage Christians to go forth and conquer the world. Roll Eyes

The church can't distort what Christ said or did because it's in the Bible. The church didn't develop the idea of the Virgin Mary; they simply read the Bible and drew that conclusion.

Am I missing something here?

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

I fail to see the difference, Augie. Both come from God (supposedly). Roll Eyes

There's a clear distinction in that one allows for flexibility in interpretation whilst the other doesn't. Can you guess which one is which?

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Only because of the Muslims, Augie. Roll Eyes

Not at all.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96482	Re: The Islamic Way Reply #248 - Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they? A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman? Augie? Brian? Anyone?
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: The Islamic Way Reply #249 - Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:59pm Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm: Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they? A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman? Augie? Brian? Anyone? I don't understand your meaning.
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Brian Ross

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #250 - Feb 16^th, 2018 at 6:20pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:49pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

There is. It's called the Catholic Church, Augie. Look at it's history. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Brian, as much as I don't like the Catholic Church for various reasons, they do not want a theocratic totalitarian state. The Catholic Church lost that battle a long time ago.

Your comment was completely misguided.

Has it? The Catholic Church has a long, long, long, memory. It's library contains works from the early history of writing. It has changed the names of it's departments. The Inquisition still exists, you realise? The Church would leap at the chance to create a theocracy with it in charge. Don't dismiss it quite so readily, is what I'd recommend.

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Christianity didn't abolish it. Christians did. There is a difference, Augie. Roll Eyes

So when they used Christian theology and the teachings of Jesus as inspiration, were they doing so as Christians, or as secular Englishmen?

A bit of both. This dividing line between secularism and religiousity is a modern one, Augie.

[ Quote:

quote author=Brian_Ross link=1516565029/242#242 date=1518694557]Lack of evidence simply suggests that the Church has been very careful in how Christ is interpreted. We do know that the Church deliberately distorted what Christ supposedly said to allow it to encourage Christians to go forth and conquer the world. Roll Eyes

The church can't distort what Christ said or did because it's in the Bible. The church didn't develop the idea of the Virgin Mary; they simply read the Bible and drew that conclusion.

Am I missing something here? [/quote]

Yes. Go and read up on the early church and it's doctrinal development of the "accepted beliefs" about the various characters in The Bible. They changed quite markedly.

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

I fail to see the difference, Augie. Both come from God (supposedly). Roll Eyes

There's a clear distinction in that one allows for flexibility in interpretation whilst the other doesn't. Can you guess which one is which?

Both get their inspiration from the Sky Fairy, right? Both are interpreted by men, right? So, effectively, both are just as subject to what those believe and want their fellow men to believe...

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

Only because of the Muslims, Augie. Roll Eyes

Not at all.

[/quote]

The Reconquista opened up Moorish libraries to Northern European eyes for the first time, Augie. Without that, the Renaissance would never have happened. Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #251 - Feb 16^th, 2018 at 6:52pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 9:28pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 8:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:31pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

From The Bible? Definitely. The Old Testament is full of inspiration like that. Tsk, tsk. Until Christians repudiate and abandon The Old Testament from The Bible, it will continue to inspire Christian Terrorists... Roll Eyes

You lying, dishonest, spineless stupid old ass!!! Worthy of McTurd and paki bvgger. Your stupid dishonesty is just brazen!!!!!

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk. Poor, poor, Soren. Where have I been dishonest? I am sticking to my point - Christians take inspiration from The Old Testament to mount their Terrorist attacks on innocent people. Isn't that what you want to do, Soren? Naughty you. Roll Eyes

You are lying and/or stupid. You were specifically asked about the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Mohammed. You ignored that and switched to the Old Testament. When pulled up for dishonesty you dig even deeper.

You confirm every charge of lying stupidity that is levelled against you. You are cunning enough to know you are lying and distorting, you are just too thick to do it well and so you get caught out every time and you you keep making it worse every time.

We all get it and see it except you. Tsk, tsk, Roll Eyes

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

OH, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. I was talking about Christianity - which is far more than just the plain old teachings of Christ, just as Islam is far more than just the plain old teachings of Mohammed. FD decided to try and narrow it down to the teachings of Christ. I attempted to keep to my point. The Old Testament is part of the Christian Holy Writ - The Bible. The Old Testament is where Christians go when they attempt to justify the most heinous of deeds. Tsk, tsk. Time you admitted you follow a religion which is just as, if not more so, violent than Islam, Soren. Roll Eyes

You are lying and you know it. We know it. Old testament. New testament. Notice any difference? (probably not, a bit like Mohammed).

The Law (Submission, if you like) was replaced by Love as the principle of the covenant. Mohammed, being a bit semi-literate like you, didn't get any of that. Went to the Jews to sell them his new prophetship of the Law. They laughed him out of court and he never got over it. He completely misunderstood the Jews and the Christians. "I am the last word and anyone who says otherwise is to be subjugated and labelled an Islamophobe" -
that's what Mo sold to the illiterate Arab hordes. Sounds like you, Aussie and the rest of the mentally handicapped petty little blighters.

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Brian Ross

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #252 - Feb 16^th, 2018 at 9:25pm

Frank wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 6:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 9:28pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 8:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 10:31pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Brian, do you actually think it is just as easy to draw inspiration for violence from the teachings of Jesus as it is from the teachings of Muhammad?

From The Bible? Definitely. The Old Testament is full of inspiration like that. Tsk, tsk. Until Christians repudiate and abandon The Old Testament from The Bible, it will continue to inspire Christian Terrorists... Roll Eyes

You lying, dishonest, spineless stupid old ass!!! Worthy of McTurd and paki bvgger. Your stupid dishonesty is just brazen!!!!!

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk. Poor, poor, Soren. Where have I been dishonest? I am sticking to my point - Christians take inspiration from The Old Testament to mount their Terrorist attacks on innocent people. Isn't that what you want to do, Soren? Naughty you. Roll Eyes

You are lying and/or stupid. You were specifically asked about the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Mohammed. You ignored that and switched to the Old Testament. When pulled up for dishonesty you dig even deeper.

You confirm every charge of lying stupidity that is levelled against you. You are cunning enough to know you are lying and distorting, you are just too thick to do it well and so you get caught out every time and you you keep making it worse every time.

We all get it and see it except you. Tsk, tsk, Roll Eyes

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

OH, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. I was talking about Christianity - which is far more than just the plain old teachings of Christ, just as Islam is far more than just the plain old teachings of Mohammed. FD decided to try and narrow it down to the teachings of Christ. I attempted to keep to my point. The Old Testament is part of the Christian Holy Writ - The Bible. The Old Testament is where Christians go when they attempt to justify the most heinous of deeds. Tsk, tsk. Time you admitted you follow a religion which is just as, if not more so, violent than Islam, Soren. Roll Eyes

You are lying and you know it. We know it. Old testament. New testament. Notice any difference? (probably not, a bit like Mohammed).

If I am lying, Soren, prove I am lying. Demonstrate that I am "knowingly telling an untruth". If you can. Tsk, tsk. No evidence, no proof. How typical of you. How bloody typical. You belong in the little Kiddie's Playground, Soren. Off you trot. Roll Eyes

Quote:

The Law (Submission, if you like) was replaced by Love as the principle of the covenant. Mohammed, being a bit semi-literate like you, didn't get any of that. Went to the Jews to sell them his new prophetship of the Law. They laughed him out of court and he never got over it. He completely misunderstood the Jews and the Christians. "I am the last word and anyone who says otherwise is to be subjugated and labelled an Islamophobe" -
that's what Mo sold to the illiterate Arab hordes. Sounds like you, Aussie and the rest of the mentally handicapped petty little blighters.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. Such a silly little child. Run along. I hear your Muma calling you... Roll Eyes

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Karnal

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #253 - Feb 16^th, 2018 at 10:05pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:59pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Depopulated the coast of Italy, did they?

A question if I may, who here upholds the use of porkies in their campaign against the Muselman?

Augie? Brian? Anyone?

I don't understand your meaning.

No speaka da English, eh?

FD knows that one too.

Good show.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96482	Re: The Islamic Way Reply #254 - Feb 16^th, 2018 at 10:06pm You're learning, Augie.
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