Australian Politics Forum - The Islamic Way

Yadda

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #75 - Jan 28^th, 2018 at 10:59pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 27^th, 2018 at 6:38pm:

It is my opinion.

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:13am:

Are you saying you just happened to make up the same lies as Gandalf, Abu etc?

Does your opinion have any basis in fact?

Auggie wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 3:21pm:

It is not based on fact.

It is an opinion.

To have opinion without knowledge, may put us in the position of being the devils advocate.

Any fool can have an opinion.

And an opinion expressed with ill-reasoning and without any substantiating proofs, is a worthless opinion.

And it seems to me, that many of the opinions we see expressed in public online forums, are worthless opinions [i.e. often they appear to be ill-informed opinions].

Whenever i have criticised ISLAM, or criticised the beliefs and/or actions of moslems, i have almost always tried to provided clear and substantiating evidences [to link the actions of those moslems, to ISLAM and its doctrines], to explain and justify my views [opinions].

That often does take some space.

In criticising ISLAM/moslems on public forums i have often suffered disparagement and castigation.

But not many have challenged the evidences [nor the reasoning] that i present, in support of my 'opinions'.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Mortdooley Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7151 Texas Gulf Coast Gender:	Re: The Islamic Way Reply #76 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 1:41am Islam is incompatible with modern civilization! What more is there to say on the subject. Reject Islam everywhere you find it!
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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: The Islamic Way Reply #77 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 10:38am And . . . when there are no infidels within reach, they kill each other. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42850624 Islam should be quarantined, and fed ammunition.
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Auggie

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #78 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

So these are "mere opinions"?

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Muhammad did not worse than what any other tribal leader did at the time.

Where did you get these "opinions" from? Did you make them up yourself? Or does your imam give you pamphlets full of "opinions" to throw at anyone who criticises Muhammad?

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

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freediver

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #79 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:05pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

So these are "mere opinions"?

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Muhammad did not worse than what any other tribal leader did at the time.

Where did you get these "opinions" from? Did you make them up yourself? Or does your imam give you pamphlets full of "opinions" to throw at anyone who criticises Muhammad?

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

It's an amazing coincidence that so many different people fabricate the same lies.

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Auggie

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #80 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 1:29pm

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

So these are "mere opinions"?

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Muhammad did not worse than what any other tribal leader did at the time.

Where did you get these "opinions" from? Did you make them up yourself? Or does your imam give you pamphlets full of "opinions" to throw at anyone who criticises Muhammad?

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

It's an amazing coincidence that so many different people fabricate the same lies.

Maybe because it's common sense??

After all, we're trying to observe a person's behaviour according to human nature, which we all understand.

The fact may be that Muhammad was a warmongering, misogynistic, sadistic mad-man who wanted to conquer the world. There's also enough evidence to show that he wasn't any of those things. Karen Armstrong and other authors have written about Muhammad and violence in religion; and whilst I haven't read those books, they provide ample justifications for why Muhammad behaved the way he did.

Perhaps you should read those books to gain a better perspective.

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Yadda

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #81 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:49pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 1:29pm:

The fact may be that Muhammad was a warmongering, misogynistic, sadistic mad-man who wanted to conquer the world. There's also enough evidence to show that he wasn't any of those things.

Karen Armstrong and other authors have written about Muhammad and violence in religion; and whilst I haven't read those books, they provide ample justifications for why Muhammad behaved the way he did.

Perhaps you should read those books to gain a better perspective.

Karen Armstrong is a well recognised apologist for moslems and ISLAM.

AugCaesarustus,

But you yourself, choose to ignore the 'perspective' about Mohammed, that is freely and plainly offered, 1/ in the Koran, 2/ in the Hadith ?

And you also choose to ignore the 'perspective' of authoritative ISLAMIC scholars who offer an interpretation of those ISLAMIC foundational texts.

Why is that AugCaesarustus ?

Do you judge that the 'opinions' of respected and authoritative ISLAMIC scholars, are worth so little ?

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1509883266/40#40
Quote:

ISLAM's foundational religious texts, have plainly been interpreted by moslem scholars to indicate,
that those who have embraced ISLAM,
have embraced enmity, and hatred, and hostility and warfare and murder, towards those who reject ISLAM.

Quote:

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian.

Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"

Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders."

And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us".

These texts are not fossils from a distant past.

They are not dead letters.

They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world.
...DDA

Google

Google;
we are pledging to wage war against all mankind, al-Tabari

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Auggie

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #82 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:58pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:49pm:

And you also choose to ignore the 'perspective' of authoritative ISLAMIC scholars who offer an interpretation of those ISLAMIC foundational texts.

Why is that AugCaesarustus ?

Do you judge that the 'opinions' of respected and authoritative ISLAMIC scholars, are worth so little ?

There are also Islamic scholars who have differing points of view, so who's interpretation is to be supreme above all else?

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Yadda

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #83 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 5:35pm

QUESTION;
Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:58pm:

There are also Islamic scholars who have differing points of view,

so who's interpretation is to be supreme above all else?

ANSWER; [easy, peasy.....]

How about, being guided by what Allah and Mohammed said ?

.

WHAT ALLAH SAID.....

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

.

WHAT ALLAH SAID.....

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah [Mohammed] a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah."
Koran 33.021

WHAT MOHAMMED SAID.....

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

WHAT MOHAMMED SAID.....

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Bertie

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #84 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 9:43pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:58pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:49pm:

And you also choose to ignore the 'perspective' of authoritative ISLAMIC scholars who offer an interpretation of those ISLAMIC foundational texts.

Why is that AugCaesarustus ?

Do you judge that the 'opinions' of respected and authoritative ISLAMIC scholars, are worth so little ?

There are also Islamic scholars who have differing points of view, so who's interpretation is to be supreme above all else?

Why do you have to believe any of them?

What is the palatable interpretation of Mohammed's life? I don't think there is any. Harvey Weinstein is a saint by comparison. Mohammed would have no future in showbiz, that's for sure.

But nobody dares draw the parallel.

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Karnal

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #85 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 4:58am

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

So these are "mere opinions"?

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Muhammad did not worse than what any other tribal leader did at the time.

Where did you get these "opinions" from? Did you make them up yourself? Or does your imam give you pamphlets full of "opinions" to throw at anyone who criticises Muhammad?

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

It's an amazing coincidence that so many different people fabricate the same lies.

FD, do you have an opinion?

I'm curious. I'm keen to know what you think.

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freediver

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #86 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:19am

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 1:29pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

So these are "mere opinions"?

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Muhammad did not worse than what any other tribal leader did at the time.

Where did you get these "opinions" from? Did you make them up yourself? Or does your imam give you pamphlets full of "opinions" to throw at anyone who criticises Muhammad?

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

It's an amazing coincidence that so many different people fabricate the same lies.

Maybe because it's common sense??

After all, we're trying to observe a person's behaviour according to human nature, which we all understand.

The fact may be that Muhammad was a warmongering, misogynistic, sadistic mad-man who wanted to conquer the world. There's also enough evidence to show that he wasn't any of those things. Karen Armstrong and other authors have written about Muhammad and violence in religion; and whilst I haven't read those books, they provide ample justifications for why Muhammad behaved the way he did.

Perhaps you should read those books to gain a better perspective.

What books? And why would I read a book recommended to me by someone who lies and then mistakes those lies for an "opinion"? None of your claims are common sense. They are statements about historical events that you simply cannot back up.

Did you get these "opinions" in a book written by Karen Armstrong? Did she give you the idea of telling lies about Muhammad and justifying them by trying to pass them off as just an "opinion"?

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Auggie

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #87 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 12:55pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:19am:

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 1:29pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 7:27pm:

So these are "mere opinions"?

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Muhammad did not worse than what any other tribal leader did at the time.

Where did you get these "opinions" from? Did you make them up yourself? Or does your imam give you pamphlets full of "opinions" to throw at anyone who criticises Muhammad?

I made them up myself.

Do you like that?

It's an amazing coincidence that so many different people fabricate the same lies.

Maybe because it's common sense??

After all, we're trying to observe a person's behaviour according to human nature, which we all understand.

The fact may be that Muhammad was a warmongering, misogynistic, sadistic mad-man who wanted to conquer the world. There's also enough evidence to show that he wasn't any of those things. Karen Armstrong and other authors have written about Muhammad and violence in religion; and whilst I haven't read those books, they provide ample justifications for why Muhammad behaved the way he did.

Perhaps you should read those books to gain a better perspective.

What books? And why would I read a book recommended to me by someone who lies and then mistakes those lies for an "opinion"? None of your claims are common sense. They are statements about historical events that you simply cannot back up.

Did you get these "opinions" in a book written by Karen Armstrong? Did she give you the idea of telling lies about Muhammad and justifying them by trying to pass them off as just an "opinion"?

First of all, I’m not lying about anything. I may be mistaken but I’m not lying.

I got these opinions from my own brain. Is that so hard to believe?

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freediver

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #88 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:17pm

You say you are not lying. You also say you invented these claims yourself:

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Muhammad did not worse than what any other tribal leader did at the time.

You can't have it both ways.

You obviously got them from somewhere, as they are the same lies we see from Muslims here on a regular basis. Or at least, we used to see them, till people figured them out. And you were happy enough to rattle them off without a second thought. So, where did you actually get them from?

And what book do you think I should read? If you got these claims straight from a book, why are you afraid to say so?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Auggie

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Re: The Islamic Way
Reply #89 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:20pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 1:17pm:

You say you are not lying. You also say you invented these claims yourself:

Only those who fought and killed the Muslims, FD.

Also, the Jews broke a Treaty with the Muslims

they promised not to support the enemy

You need to understand is that everyone was out to get each other.

Muhammad did not worse than what any other tribal leader did at the time.

You can't have it both ways.

You obviously got them from somewhere, as they are the same lies we see from Muslims here on a regular basis. Or at least, we used to see them, till people figured them out. And you were happy enough to rattle them off without a second thought. So, where did you actually get them from?

And what book do you think I should read? If you got these claims straight from a book, why are you afraid to say so?

I didn’t get these claims from any book. I said earlier I hadn’t read them.

As I said, I thought up these ideas on my own whim; I didn’t get them from anywhere except my brain.

A lie is defined as an intentional false statement. I am not making a false statement intentionally.

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