Australian Politics Forum - Iranian women remove their veils

Auggie

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #30 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:04pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:46pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:44pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:41pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:38pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:21pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:04pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 12:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 12:38pm:

moses wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:26pm:

Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

Good to see people disobeying the qur'an

Another crack in islam, women recognizing that the qur'an is not perfect.

Once people start to be honest about it, islam will implode.

Oh dear.

moses has been caught doing something very naughty here.

His quote says:

“Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

Yet, when we follow his link, the quote is actually:

"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better ... "

You'll note that the proper quote - not the edited one from moses - has "veils" in parentheses.

Now, when we look at the top of the page that moses has cited as his reference, it quite clearly states:

"Note that any text in parentheses was added by the translators".

moses has deliberately altered someone else's text (in order to support his own argument), and then tried to pass it off as the original.

Dear oh dear.

And why did moses do such a naughty thing?

Quote:

“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”
[al-Ahzaab 33:59]

https://islamqa.info/en/13646

Sheik Munajid does the same thing will little pecca accuse the oldest Islamic website on the internet of the exact same thing?

The veil is mentioned in the Sunnah
Quote:

The Prophet (ﷺ) stayed for three rights between Khaibar and Medina and was married to Safiya. I invited the Muslim to h s marriage banquet and there wa neither meat nor bread in that banquet but the Prophet ordered Bilal to spread the leather mats on which dates, dried yogurt and butter were put. The Muslims said amongst themselves, "Will she (i.e. Safiya) be one of the mothers of the believers, (i.e. one of the wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) ) or just (a lady captive) of what his right-hand possesses" Some of them said, "If the Prophet (ﷺ) makes her observe the veil, then she will be one of the mothers of the believers (i.e. one of the Prophet's wives), and if he does not make her observe the veil, then she will be his lady slave." So when he departed, he made a place for her behind him (on his and made her observe the veil.
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/64/253

Quote:

The Prophet (ﷺ) stayed with Safiya bint Huyai for three days on the way of Khaibar where he consummated his marriage with her. Safiya was amongst those who were ordered to use a veil.
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/64/252

Muhammad married Safiya on the very same day her husband was killed when muslims conquered her jewish tribe, this is the type of person little pecca defends.

If any other relgion made the hijab mandatory little pecca would squeal like a stuck pig for some reason he always defends the backward belief called Islam.

"Note that any text in parentheses was added by the translators".

Sheik Munajid from Saudi Arabia also adds parentheses to translations it's a common thing.

Does little pecca have a problem with a Saudi imam with the oldest Islamic website on the internet doing that, perhaps little pecca thinks he knows more than a Saudi imam when it comes to Islam.

The Quran does not require women to wear a veil.

I suggest you get hold of a copy, and see for yourself.

But the Hadith do. Are you disputing the authenticity of the Hadith?

I'm addressing the post from moses.

He said: "Good to see people disobeying the qur'an".

What Moses means is that they are defying the authorities in Islam.

You need to read between the lines.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #31 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:05pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 12:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 12:38pm:

moses wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:26pm:

Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

Good to see people disobeying the qur'an

Another crack in islam, women recognizing that the qur'an is not perfect.

Once people start to be honest about it, islam will implode.

Oh dear.

moses has been caught doing something very naughty here.

His quote says:

“Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

Yet, when we follow his link, the quote is actually:

"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better ... "

You'll note that the proper quote - not the edited one from moses - has "veils" in parentheses.

Now, when we look at the top of the page that moses has cited as his reference, it quite clearly states:

"Note that any text in parentheses was added by the translators".

moses has deliberately altered someone else's text (in order to support his own argument), and then tried to pass it off as the original.

Dear oh dear.

And why did moses do such a naughty thing?

Simple, really.

"... does the Quran, in fact, require women to cover themselves—with a veil, a chador or any other form of head covering?

"The quick answer is no: the Quran has no requirement that women cover their faces with a veil, or cover their bodies with the full-body burqua or chador, as in Iran and Afghanistan."

"Regarding manners of dress, and other than that passage, the Quran requires only that women and men dress modestly. Beyond that, it never requires face or full-body coverings of any form for men or women."

Does the Quran Require Women to Wear the Veil?

moses: you've been caught out, my boy.

Busted!

Your link is not a credible source on Islam, the apologists have no shame in defending Islam.

The Quran is not the only book muslims follow they also have the Sunnah. The Sunnah was created to include all the things they left out of the Quran. Muslims claim the bible was corrupted so they couldn't change the Quran after it was written or they would be doing exactly what they accused Christians of doing in corrupting the bible so they came up with the Sunnah.

No prayer instructions in the Quran as well so how do muslims know how to tap their heads on the ground with their asses in the air while facing Mecca?

The Islamic apologists like little pecca like defending the most backward of all the religions, the muslims are the only religion still executing atheists.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #32 - Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:18pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 3:05pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 2:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 12:46pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2018 at 12:38pm:

moses wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 4:26pm:

Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

Good to see people disobeying the qur'an

Another crack in islam, women recognizing that the qur'an is not perfect.

Once people start to be honest about it, islam will implode.

Oh dear.

moses has been caught doing something very naughty here.

His quote says:

“Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

Yet, when we follow his link, the quote is actually:

"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better ... "

You'll note that the proper quote - not the edited one from moses - has "veils" in parentheses.

Now, when we look at the top of the page that moses has cited as his reference, it quite clearly states:

"Note that any text in parentheses was added by the translators".

moses has deliberately altered someone else's text (in order to support his own argument), and then tried to pass it off as the original.

Dear oh dear.

And why did moses do such a naughty thing?

Simple, really.

"... does the Quran, in fact, require women to cover themselves—with a veil, a chador or any other form of head covering?

"The quick answer is no: the Quran has no requirement that women cover their faces with a veil, or cover their bodies with the full-body burqua or chador, as in Iran and Afghanistan."

"Regarding manners of dress, and other than that passage, the Quran requires only that women and men dress modestly. Beyond that, it never requires face or full-body coverings of any form for men or women."

Does the Quran Require Women to Wear the Veil?

moses: you've been caught out, my boy.

Busted!

Your link is not a credible source on Islam, the apologists have no shame in defending Islam.

The Quran is not the only book muslims follow they also have the Sunnah. The Sunnah was created to include all the things they left out of the Quran. Muslims claim the bible was corrupted so they couldn't change the Quran after it was written or they would be doing exactly what they accused Christians of doing in corrupting the bible so they came up with the Sunnah.

No prayer instructions in the Quran as well so how do muslims know how to tap their heads on the ground with their asses in the air while facing Mecca?

The Islamic apologists like little pecca like defending the most backward of all the religions, the muslims are the only religion still executing atheists.

Try to focus.

moses specifically said: "Good to see people disobeying the qur'an".

"... does the Quran, in fact, require women to cover themselves—with a veil, a chador or any other form of head covering?

"The quick answer is no: the Quran has no requirement that women cover their faces with a veil, or cover their bodies with the full-body burqua or chador, as in Iran and Afghanistan."

"Regarding manners of dress, and other than that passage, the Quran requires only that women and men dress modestly. Beyond that, it never requires face or full-body coverings of any form for men or women."

Keep trying Wink

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moses

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #33 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:46pm

Good to see that the bits in brackets are actually not true.

However 24.31 below has the word veil not enclosed in brackets, so veil is used in the qur'an as a means of covering.

Veil is also used in the hadith, apologists are drawing a long string, when they try and say veil is not part of the prescribed womens clothing.

24.31. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.

As far as I'm concerned the word veil used in hadith and qur'an means exactly that, a veil.

In the below verse:

24.33. And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His Bounty. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you know that they are good and trustworthy. And give them something yourselves out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you. And force not your maids to prostitution, if they desire chastity, in order that you may make a gain in the (perishable) goods of this worldly life. But if anyone compels them (to prostitution), then after such compulsion, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to those women, i.e. He will forgive them because they have been forced to do this evil action unwillingly).

The verse is clearly talking about forced sex, rape, and allah forgiving the muslim rapist.

Now according to our apologists the excuse that muslims use i.e. allah is forgiving the woman for being raped, is a lie.

The bit about forgiving the woman for being raped is in brackets, according to our apologists this is a late add on and is untrue.

So our apologists have admitted that islam urges rape.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #34 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:48pm

moses wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:46pm:

Good to see that the bits in brackets are actually not true.

However 24.31 below has the word veil not enclosed in brackets, so veil is used in the qur'an as a means of covering.

Veil is also used in the hadith, apologists are drawing a long string, when they try and say veil is not part of the prescribed womens clothing.

24.31. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.

As far as I'm concerned the word veil used in hadith and qur'an means exactly that, a veil.

In the below verse:

24.33. And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His Bounty. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you know that they are good and trustworthy. And give them something yourselves out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you. And force not your maids to prostitution, if they desire chastity, in order that you may make a gain in the (perishable) goods of this worldly life. But if anyone compels them (to prostitution), then after such compulsion, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to those women, i.e. He will forgive them because they have been forced to do this evil action unwillingly).

The verse is clearly talking about forced sex, rape, and allah forgiving the muslim rapist.

Now according to our apologists the excuse that muslims use i.e. allah is forgiving the woman for being raped, is a lie.

The bit about forgiving the woman for being raped is in brackets, according to our apologists this is a late add on and is untrue.

So our apologists have admitted that islam urges rape.

Why did you remove the brackets?

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moses

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #35 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:57pm

I have no idea, a bad (according to you) mistake, I admit that my copy is not exactly as the original.

However I see that verse 24.31 and the hadith uses the word veil, I'm convinced that veil is indeed a part of enforced islamic dress code for women.

Good to see that you have shown us how the excuse that allah is forgiving the women for being raped is untrue, muslims are taught it's legitimate to rape women.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #36 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:01pm

moses wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:57pm:

I have no idea, a bad (according to you) mistake, I admit that my copy is not exactly as the original.

However I see that verse 24.31 and the hadith uses the word veil, I'm convinced that veil is indeed a part of enforced islamic dress code for women.

Good to see that you have shown us how the excuse that allah is forgiving the women for being raped is untrue, muslims are taught it's legitimate to rape women.

If it is "enforced", Moses, why then do so many Muslim women not wear them? Few if the Muslim women I know wear a Hijab or a Burqa or Niqab. Strange, I must say for an "enforced" item of wear... Are they all apostates? Really? Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #37 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:02pm

moses wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 2:57pm:

I have no idea, a bad (according to you) mistake, I admit that my copy is not exactly as the original.

However I see that verse 24.31 and the hadith uses the word veil, I'm convinced that veil is indeed a part of enforced islamic dress code for women.

Good to see that you have shown us how the excuse that allah is forgiving the women for being raped is untrue, muslims are taught it's legitimate to rape women.

Yeah, that must be it - a mistake.

You accidentally went to the middle of a sentence and removed a pair of brackets, and then added the word "and".

Happens all the time.

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moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: Iranian women remove their veils Reply #38 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:10pm For the umpteenth time, I made a mistake. However veil (not in brackets) is used in the qur'an and the hadith as prescribed islamic dress. Good to see that you have shown us how the excuse that allah is forgiving the women for being raped is untrue, muslims are taught it's legitimate to rape women.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #39 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:11pm

moses wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:10pm:

For the umpteenth time, I made a mistake.

However veil (not in brackets) is used in the qur'an and the hadith as prescribed islamic dress.

Good to see that you have shown us how the excuse that allah is forgiving the women for being raped is untrue, muslims are taught it's legitimate to rape women.

Nope.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #40 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:14pm

moses wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:10pm:

For the umpteenth time, I made a mistake.

However veil (not in brackets) is used in the qur'an and the hadith as prescribed islamic dress.

Good to see that you have shown us how the excuse that allah is forgiving the women for being raped is untrue, muslims are taught it's legitimate to rape women.

Oh, whoops - I mistakenly removed a pair of brackets.

Oh, whoops - I mistakenly added the word "and" in front of "veil".

My mistake.

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moses

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #41 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:16pm

Well O.K. I didn't make a mistake.

Can you tell us which bits in the qur'an are true: the verse where veil is in brackets, or the verse with veil not in brackets?

Is veil used in the hadith?

Oh once again, heartfelt thanks that you have shown us how the excuse that allah is forgiving the women for being raped is untrue, muslims are taught it's legitimate to rape women.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #42 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:47pm

moses wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Well O.K. I didn't make a mistake.

Can you tell us which bits in the qur'an are true: the verse where veil is in brackets, or the verse with veil not in brackets?

Is veil used in the hadith?

Oh once again, heartfelt thanks that you have shown us how the excuse that allah is forgiving the women for being raped is untrue, muslims are taught it's legitimate to rape women.

'Veil' isn't in the Quran .

Brackets, or no brackets.

The Quran doesn't instruct women to wear veils.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #43 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:53pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:47pm:

The Quran doesn't instruct women to wear veils.

The Quran doesn't instruct muslims to stone people to death for adultery yet all muslims say that is the prescribed punishment.

The Quran doesn't instruct muslims on how to pray so where do they find those instructions?

The Quran doesn't contain the 5 pillars of Islam so where do muslims find that info?

The Quran is not the only book muslims use for Islam they also use the Sunnah.

Little Pecca is showing his ignorance with Islam again, why does he defend a religion that still executes people for becoming an atheist?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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moses

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Re: Iranian women remove their veils
Reply #44 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 3:53pm

greggerypeccary wrote: Reply #42 - Today at 3:47pm
Quote:

'Veil' isn't in the Quran .

Brackets, or no brackets.

The Quran doesn't instruct women to wear veils.

OH I beg to differ.

qur'an 24.31. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.

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