Australian Politics Forum - Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!

Yadda

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Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!
May 6^th, 2018 at 11:09pm

Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!

Why can't you infidels be more tolerant!

IMAGE....

'All that we demand, is that you accept our religion.
And if you refuse, we demand that you recognise that it is our moslem right,
to practice our religious freedom - AND KILL YOU, FOR FIGHTING AGAINST US !
Why can't you be more tolerant!

Quote:

By Robert Spencer on May 05, 2018 05:13 pm

Al-Azhar on French call to reform Qur’an:

Violent verses are “in reality verses of peace”

He [Egyptian cleric] seems to have forgotten about passages such as 8:39, which calls upon Muslims to fight until “religion is all for Allah,”

and 9:29, which calls upon Muslims to fight and subjugate the “People of the Book,”

solely because they are not Muslims.

Al-Azhar denounced French calls for the “freezing” of verses in the Koran, and [denied] that they were urging the killing of non-Muslims.

Earlier, Le Parisien published a controversial petition calling for the removal of allegedly anti-Jewish verses from the Koran, signed by former French President Nicolas Sarkozy and 300 political figures from the left and the right, as well as Arabs and Muslims.

Egyptian media quoted Dr. Abbas Shuman, deputy of Al-Azhar, as saying on Thursday that
“the demand of 300 French personalities to freeze verses in the Koran, claiming that it urges the killing of non-Muslims, is unjustified and unacceptable…

Shuman condemned the claims, saying: “No to freezing a single letter from the Koran, and those calling for this can go to hell.”

Al-Azhar’s deputy pointed out that the existence of such calls indicates “their ignorance, at best.”

“We do not have verses ordering the killing of anyone except those calling for the killing of people who commit a crime [sophistry] such as deliberately killing others, or taking up arms to fight us, and we are not responsible for the lack of understanding of others of the meanings of the verses, and who understand them without apparent reference to the interpretations of scholars.”

He added:

“What those who issued this call think are verses calling for their killing

are in reality verses of peace.

The verses of fighting are all in the context of a response to aggression if it is declared against us…

This principle is not disputed even among those who demand a freeze on these verses.

They recognize the right of self-defense, defense of the the homeland, and resistance to other forms of aggression.”

He said: “Let them understand that these books of Allah are true, but if they rely on their misunderstanding, they should go with their understanding and ask those in hell.”

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/05/al-azhar-on-french-call-to-reform-quran-viole...

MORE....

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!
Reply #1 - May 6^th, 2018 at 11:09pm

CONTINUED....

Quote:

Al-Azhar denounced French calls for the “freezing” of verses in the Koran,
and [denied] that they were urging the killing of non-Muslims.

----- >

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

.

Quote:

Al-Azhar denounced French calls for the “freezing” of verses in the Koran,
and [denied] that they were urging the killing of non-Muslims.

----- >

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

.

Spokesmen for ISLAM will tell anyone who will listen;

THAT IT IS WRONG, AND THAT IT IS TOTALLY AGAINST ISLAMIC LAW, TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Here is a moslem in the UK explaining, who the innocent people are.

---------- >

Please watch this YT...
A UK moslem community leader, speaking in the wake of the London 7/7 bombing;

Quote:

YT

KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE

"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."

"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
"...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!
Reply #2 - May 6^th, 2018 at 11:20pm

.....EVEN MORE!

Google.....

'....those who resist Islam cause wars and are responsible for them.'

.

THE MORAL RESPONSIBILITY, FOR ALL CONFLICTS AND WARS, with moslems,
is laid at the feet of those who reject ISLAM.

- so says, ISLAMIC religious doctrine

"....those who resist Islam cause wars and are responsible for them."

That is the 'holy' and the 'lawful' mindset, which the religion of ISLAM inculcates into the psyche of every moslem....

--------- >

Quote:

.....In the book “Reliance of the Traveler" (This 1200+ page voluminous book on Sharia contains fundamentals of Islamic jurisprudence), one of the more respected, classical works in Islamic theology, compiled by "the great 13th century Hadith scholar and jurisprudent", Iman Nawawi, and others. Defines jihad and its application in page 599 as follows:

JIHAD: "Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word "mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion.....

Bassam Tibi wirtes in "War and Peace in Islam":

At its core, Islam is a religious mission to all humanity.

Muslims are religiously obliged to disseminate the Islamic faith throughout the world.

"We have sent you forth to all mankind" (Q. 34:28).

If non-Muslims submit to conversion or subjugation, this call (da’wa) can be pursued peacefully.

If they do not, Muslims are obliged to wage war against them.

In Islam, peace requires that non-Muslims submit to the call of Islam, either by converting or by accepting the status of a religious minority (dhimmi) and paying the imposed poll tax, jizya.

World peace, the final stage of the da’wa, is reached only with the conversion or submission of all mankind to Islam.....

Muslims believe that expansion through war is not aggression but a fulfillment of the Qur’anic command to spread Islam as a way to peace.

The resort to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims.

Islamic wars are not hurub (the plural of harb) but rather futuhat, acts of "opening" the world to Islam and expressing Islamic jihad.

Relations between dar al-Islam, the home of peace, and dar al-harb, the world of unbelievers, nevertheless take place in a state of war, according to the Qur’an and to the authoritative commentaries of Islamic jurists.

Unbelievers who stand in the way, creating obstacles for the da’wa, are blamed for this state of war, for the da’wa can be pursued peacefully if others submit to it.

In other words, those who resist Islam cause wars and are responsible for them.

Only when Muslim power is weak is ‘temporary truce’ (hudna) allowed (Islamic jurists differ on the definition of ‘temporary’).

.....These definitions from Islamic scholars are more than enough to prove that jihad is about bloody war against non-Muslims, forcing them to embrace Islam.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/Peaseforever60415.htm this is part of page 1 of 4

.

Quote:

Al-Azhar denounced French calls for the “freezing” of verses in the Koran,
and [denied] that they were urging the killing of non-Muslims.

----- >

ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE EXPERT

The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdel Aziz al-Sheikh is the ISLAMIC equivalent of 'The Archbishop of Canterbury', in Saudi Arabia.

And this is what he had to say about the use of force, to spread ISLAM...

Quote:

September 23, 2006
"...the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdel Aziz al-Sheikh.

...Saudi Arabia's most senior cleric also explained that war was never Islam's ancient founder, the prophet Mohammed's, first choice:

"He gave three options: either accept Islam, or surrender and pay tax, and they will be allowed to remain in their land, observing their religion under the protection of Muslims."

Thus, according to the Grand Mufti, THE THIRD OPTION OF VIOLENCE AGAINST NON-MUSLIMS WAS ONLY A LAST RESORT,

IF THEY REFUSED TO CONVERT OR SURRENDER PEACEFULLY TO THE ARMIES OF ISLAM.

...The...doctrine of war was described by the great medieval philosopher Ibn Khaldun:

"In the Muslim community, the holy war (jihad) is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the (Muslim) mission and the (obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force." (The Muqaddimah)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20460114-601,00.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20460114-601,00.html
is a dead link

Google;
"THE THIRD OPTION OF VIOLENCE AGAINST NON-MUSLIMS"

Google;
"Creed of the sword" Durie

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect! Reply #3 - May 7^th, 2018 at 6:29am Surely you don't think anyone is going to read through all that? When I did English composition, it was all about being concise, making one's point with as little verbiage as possible. Your posts take on the tone of a harangue.
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Yadda

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Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!
Reply #4 - May 7^th, 2018 at 9:18am

issuevoter wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:29am:

Surely you don't think anyone is going to read through all that?

When I did English composition, it was all about being concise, making one's point with as little verbiage as possible.

Yeah you are right, many of my posts are verbose.

It is a fault.

p.s.
I didn't do 'English composition', as such.

issuevoter wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:29am:

Your posts take on the tone of a harangue.

Really ? ....when there is so little to criticise in men ['modern' man], and modern societies today.

[That was sarcasm.]

Proverbs 12:17
He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness...

.

A war never ends by one side declaring victory but by one side admitting defeat.
- Ahmad Shah Massoud

"We shouldn't hold ourself captive, to someone elses feelings/predjudices."
- ?

"Tolerating inconstistency, will cause you to become inconstistent."
- ?

"What we tolerate.....we encourage and condone."
- ?

"The standard you walk past is the standard you accept."
- ?

"What you ignore, you permit."
- ?

"Today i'm speaking up, ....for myself."
- ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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BigP

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Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!
Reply #5 - May 7^th, 2018 at 5:54pm

Yadda wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 9:18am:

issuevoter wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:29am:

Surely you don't think anyone is going to read through all that?

When I did English composition, it was all about being concise, making one's point with as little verbiage as possible.

Yeah you are right, many of my posts are verbose.

It is a fault.

p.s.
I didn't do 'English composition', as such.

issuevoter wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:29am:

Your posts take on the tone of a harangue.

Really ? ....when there is so little to criticise in men ['modern' man], and modern societies today.

[That was sarcasm.]

Proverbs 12:17
He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness...

.

A war never ends by one side declaring victory but by one side admitting defeat.
- Ahmad Shah Massoud

"We shouldn't hold ourself captive, to someone elses feelings/predjudices."
- ?

"Tolerating inconstistency, will cause you to become inconstistent."
- ?

"What we tolerate.....we encourage and condone."
- ?

"The standard you walk past is the standard you accept."
- ?

"What you ignore, you permit."
- ?

"Today i'm speaking up, ....for myself."
- ?

Yadda yadda yadda Cheesy

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21762 A cat with a view	Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect! Reply #6 - May 7^th, 2018 at 6:22pm BigP wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 5:54pm: Yadda yadda yadda Precisely, vege57, .....that is what i do. .....most often, verbosely.
Back to top	"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31 IP Logged

BigP Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1924 West Auckland Gender:	Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect! Reply #7 - May 7^th, 2018 at 6:58pm Yadda wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:22pm: BigP wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 5:54pm: Yadda yadda yadda Precisely, vege57, .....that is what i do. .....most often, verbosely. Well keep up gods work
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Online Dogs not cats! Posts: 46656 Gender:	Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect! Reply #8 - May 7^th, 2018 at 7:06pm God’s.
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Yadda

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Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!
Reply #9 - May 7^th, 2018 at 7:18pm

BigP wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

Yadda wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:22pm:

BigP wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:

Yadda yadda yadda Cheesy

Precisely, vege57, .....that is what i do. Wink

.....most often, verbosely.

Well keep up gods work Cool

Is it so onerous, and, should it be offensive to us ?

Psalms 82:2
How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

Isaiah 1:17
Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Jeremiah 22:3
Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood....

Malachi 3:14
Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts?
15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Micah 6:7
Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Verbose.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!
Reply #10 - Sep 4^th, 2021 at 11:08am

issuevoter wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:29am:

Surely you don't think anyone is going to read through all that?

When I did English composition, it was all about being concise, making one's point with as little verbiage as possible.

issue,

My advantage, is that i'm un-educated and i'm not 'well-read',
and i never experienced anything which was described as 'English composition'.

I just try to say, what i mean, ...in a way that i hope, people will understand.

Verbose ?

Its a lover-ly word.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Frank

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Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!
Reply #11 - Sep 4^th, 2021 at 12:02pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 4^th, 2021 at 11:08am:

issuevoter wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:29am:

Surely you don't think anyone is going to read through all that?

When I did English composition, it was all about being concise, making one's point with as little verbiage as possible.

issue,

My advantage, is that i'm un-educated and i'm not 'well-read',
and i never experienced anything which was described as 'English composition'.

I just try to say, what i mean, ...in a way that i hope, people will understand.

Verbose ?

Its a lover-ly word.

Don't know who said it - verbosity is never leaving out any details.

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20210904_120142.jpg (231 KB | 24 )

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Ayn Marx

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Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!
Reply #12 - Sep 4^th, 2021 at 4:45pm

issuevoter wrote on May 7^th, 2018 at 6:29am:

Surely you don't think anyone is going to read through all that?

It would help if those who attempt to analyse/criticise religious belief systems actually read so called holy books. That wise old English saying teaches us “Know thine enemy"

Quote:

When I did English composition, it was all about being concise, making one's point with as little verbiage as possible.

‘When I did English composition’? Petal, you don’t ‘do it’ you study it or read it. Hate to be pedantic but ‘did’ in that context tells us too much about how far you went.

Quote:

Your posts take on the tone of a harangue.

Most do around here.

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The Human Race is Insane

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Frank

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Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!
Reply #13 - Sep 16^th, 2021 at 10:29am

Univerities are major agents and hubs of Western civilisational suicide. Despicable.

University clears don of being anti-Islam but then cancels his course anyway after students launched 'vicious and militant' campaign
University chiefs rejected complaints Steven Greer expressed 'bigoted views'
But after a five-month investigation, his module was still pulled from syllabus
Critics said his lecture slide about 2015 Paris terror attack was 'Islamophobic'
Students had for the module at Bristol University's law school to be scrapped
Mr Greer accused senior academics of 'capitulating' to the threats of students

Meanwhile, Prof Greer said he had to flee the family home amid fears for his safety following the campaign against him.

Critics claimed a lecture slide that mentioned the 2015 terror attack on the Paris offices of Charlie Hebdo, a magazine that had published cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, was 'Islamophobic rhetoric'.

Prof Greer also highlighted the inferior treatment of women and non-Muslims in Islamic nations, and the harsh penalties handed out under sharia law.

Although a formal investigation came down in favour of Prof Greer, he received an email from academic chiefs last week which said his module on Islam, China and the Far East was being dropped so Muslim students would 'not feel that their religion is being singled out or in any way 'othered' by the class material'.

Prof Greer said: 'Militant minorities are increasingly intent on dictating the content and delivery of university education through vilification, intimidation and threats.

'Their purpose is to silence lawful and legitimate opinion simply because they disagree with it.

'The law school has capitulated in a manner which is at variance with the result of the university's inquiry into my case.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9980927/University-clears-don-anti-Isla...

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Ayn Marx

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Re: Our religion, our Koran, are both perfect!
Reply #14 - Sep 16^th, 2021 at 10:41am

Frank wrote on Sep 16^th, 2021 at 10:29am:

'Their purpose is to silence lawful and legitimate opinion simply because they disagree with it.

What should we expect when we stand back and allow M BA’s to become deans of universities? Take any reasonably intelligent individual, put them through an M BA degree and a moron speaking gibberish comes out the other end. Instance, look at what these fools are doing to the English language “Goal directed outcome” for “Result”.
The lunatics are in charge of the asylum.

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The Human Race is Insane

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