Australian Politics Forum - Correct version of Australia’s history

Setanta

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #360 - Jul 19^th, 2018 at 9:54pm

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 9:48pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 9:33pm:

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 9:27pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 9:18pm:

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 9:11pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 9:07pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:53pm:

Is herding sheep ~ farming, Effendi?

There's a fine line but I'm not sure where to draw it. Can you herd kangaroos?
Neolithic Brits burnt the reeds beside the lakes they lived around to induce deer and other wildlife to come and browse there so they could "hunt" them more easily. It that farming or enhanced hunting?

yes with FIRE- dogs 4whl drives etc- that doesnt take away from anything- there is no fine line

You have to be a bit more explicit in what you mean Agnes.

FD has to answer his own question

There was no FD in our exchange. I'm asking you to be more explicit in what you meant by Quote:

yes with FIRE- dogs 4whl drives etc- that doesnt take away from anything- there is no fine line

If for example by dogs, I hunt pig with them, does that make it farming? If I run over a roo with a 4WD? Your whole point is undefined.

I dont have the energy for tricky word play- agree to disagree I say- FD is a piker- he was losing and now you are trying to argue his point

I'm not doing that at all Agnes. I came into this conversation late and saw both sides trying to stretch the fact to meet their goals. All I am doing is trying to match well recognised words that have definite meanings to what the Aboriginals did. We have evidence from other parts of the word that this was not a one off thing. It was done in Britain, what I am trying to establish is, is it really farming or hunting with the enhancements of improving the ecosystem to encourage game. I would not say those in Britain were "farming" when they did the same.

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Setanta

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #361 - Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:03pm

Here you go Agnes,

Quote:

Archaeologists working on Stone Age remains at a site in North Yorkshire say it contains Britain's earliest surviving house.
----

The site was inhabited by hunter gatherers from just after the last ice age, for a period of between 200 and 500 years.

According to the team, they migrated from an area now under the North Sea, hunting animals including deer, wild boar, elk and enormous wild cattle known as auroch.

Though they did not cultivate the land, the inhabitants did burn part of the landscape to encourage animals to eat shoots and they also kept domesticated dogs.

http://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/stone-age-remains-are-britains-earlies...

There are many more I could show you from stone age Britain like that.

Try https://www.archaeology.co.uk/articles/return-to-star-carr-discovering-the-true-...

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« Last Edit: Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:12pm by Setanta »

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freediver

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #362 - Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:31pm

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 9:06pm:

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:33pm:

Quote:

Fire-stick farming was the practice of Indigenous Australians who regularly used fire to burn vegetation to facilitate hunting and to change the composition of plant and animal species in an area. Fire-stick farming had the long-term effect of turning dry forest into savannah, increasing the population of nonspecific grass-eating species like the kangaroo. One theory of the extinction of Australian megafauna implicates the ecological disturbance caused by fire-stick farming.[1]

In the resultant sclerophyll forests, fire-stick farming maintained an open canopy and allowed germination of understory plants necessary for increasing the carrying capacity of the local environment for browsing and grazing marsupials.

Aboriginal people may have been able to aim the burning of the scrub to avoid growing areas. There may have been a ritual taboo against burning certain areas of jungle.[2]

This type of farming directly increased the food supply for Aboriginal people by promoting the growth of bush potatoes and other edible ground-level plants.[3]

The term fire-stick farming was coined by Australian archaeologist Rhys Jones in 1969

.

This is from the wiki link Gnads- written by white academics- you might want to go and read the whole article and others- there are many out there thweeitie Kiss

Dont thank agnes she just wants you stupids to think-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-stick_farming#References

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FD

The highlighted would indicate a very sophistcated level of farming ( which is not exclusive to raising sheep btw) read that and let it sink in- regular farming is playschool compared to that -

Im out nite

So hunting roos is not just farming, it is now a "very sophisticated" level of farming?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Setanta

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #363 - Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:40pm

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:31pm:

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 9:06pm:

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:33pm:

Quote:

Fire-stick farming was the practice of Indigenous Australians who regularly used fire to burn vegetation to facilitate hunting and to change the composition of plant and animal species in an area. Fire-stick farming had the long-term effect of turning dry forest into savannah, increasing the population of nonspecific grass-eating species like the kangaroo. One theory of the extinction of Australian megafauna implicates the ecological disturbance caused by fire-stick farming.[1]

In the resultant sclerophyll forests, fire-stick farming maintained an open canopy and allowed germination of understory plants necessary for increasing the carrying capacity of the local environment for browsing and grazing marsupials.

Aboriginal people may have been able to aim the burning of the scrub to avoid growing areas. There may have been a ritual taboo against burning certain areas of jungle.[2]

This type of farming directly increased the food supply for Aboriginal people by promoting the growth of bush potatoes and other edible ground-level plants.[3]

The term fire-stick farming was coined by Australian archaeologist Rhys Jones in 1969

.

This is from the wiki link Gnads- written by white academics- you might want to go and read the whole article and others- there are many out there thweeitie Kiss

Dont thank agnes she just wants you stupids to think-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-stick_farming#References

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

FD

The highlighted would indicate a very sophistcated level of farming ( which is not exclusive to raising sheep btw) read that and let it sink in- regular farming is playschool compared to that -

Im out nite

So hunting roos is not just farming, it is now a "very sophisticated" level of farming?

I just see it as people learning through experience that animals like tender shoots as they observed anywhere where fire brought forth new tender grass for their prey, then replicating it.

I'm not sure sophisticated would be the right word, observant might be closer to the truth. Man's pattern matching brain and forethought is a marvel.

edit: Sure, it's not evident here most of the time. Tribalism rules! I'm sure it's why we(mankind) have mental problems, pattern matching gone mad. Seeing patterns where there really are none. Seeing messages or omens in the way car wheels move or other stuff most people ignore. The way animals behave, the way antibiotics or throat lozenges kill viruses. I believe that is the price we pay as a whole for the gift we have as a species.

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« Last Edit: Jul 19^th, 2018 at 10:56pm by Setanta »

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Grendel

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #364 - Jul 19^th, 2018 at 11:14pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:20pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 7:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 4:07pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Still unable to use the quote function, Geoff. Get back to me once you've worked it out. Roll Eyes

More pedantics Roll Eyes

It was easy as to understand & didn't require quotes.

The quote function exists for a purpose. It makes it easier to read what is being said. Geoff deliberately refuses to use it. He needs to learn to conform to the accepted norm of debate. Roll Eyes

Oh look I used the quote function for the umpteenth time on this site...
I know you know I know how to use it bwian, so stop the lies and poor excuses ok.
I chose not to use it.
You chose to runaway... Cheesy

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Grendel

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #365 - Jul 19^th, 2018 at 11:15pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 9:12pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 7:46pm:

You keep shifting the OP & the notions proposed by the likes of Pascoe & Abrahams further & further toward present day.

Being a twisty shyte seems to be your forte.

I have "shifted" nothing, Gnads. Your effort at bullying won't work. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Yes you did bwian you are being your normal disingenuous self...
Stop lying. Roll Eyes

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 16481 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: Correct version of Australia’s history Reply #366 - Jul 19^th, 2018 at 11:23pm Good to see the thread back on track Grendel.
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Grendel

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #367 - Jul 19^th, 2018 at 11:27pm

Setanta wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 11:23pm:

Good to see the thread back on track Grendel. Roll Eyes

Cant let bwian get away with his dishonest posts SET.
Maybe you should delete them.
But hey apparently he is allowed to post crap about people here with impunity.
Or are you suggesting I'm not simply replying to his posts?

BTW both Gnads and I pointed out bwians obfuscation and dishonesty re the actual topic

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Setanta

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #368 - Jul 19^th, 2018 at 11:30pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 11:27pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 11:23pm:

Good to see the thread back on track Grendel. Roll Eyes

Cant let bwian get away with his dishonest posts SET.
Maybe you should delete them.
But hey apparently he is allowed to post crap about people here with impunity.
Or are you suggesting I'm not simply replying to his posts?

I would suggest you are not "simply" replying to his posts. He annoys the shyte out of me but I can tell when it's just not worth it and as for ad hom, you are both as bad as each other.

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Gnads

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #369 - Jul 20^th, 2018 at 7:47am

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:17pm:

for gnads

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-stick_farming#References

https://theconversation.com/the-biggest-estate-on-earth-how-aborigines-made-aust...

still determined to stay willfully ignorant?- no fairytales here mate

Quote:

One theory of the extinction of Australian megafauna implicates the ecological disturbance caused by fire-stick farming

Quote:

The term fire-stick farming was coined by Australian archaeologist Rhys Jones in 1969.

Coining phrases & making claims doesn't make it so.

Quote:

Some researchers, like David Horton from the Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies, suggest, "Aboriginal use of fire had little impact on the environment

Quote:

Tim Flanery - Clearly, Aboriginal people had some effect, but the significance of that effect is far from clear.

I'd suggest you read what you post Agnes.

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Gnads

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #370 - Jul 20^th, 2018 at 7:54am

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:17pm:

for gnads

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-stick_farming#References

https://theconversation.com/the-biggest-estate-on-earth-how-aborigines-made-aust...

still determined to stay willfully ignorant?- no fairytales here mate

Your 2nd link - The Conversation - subtitled - Academic rigour Journalistic flair. Flair is the key word there. Roll Eyes

Quote:

grass burnt in mosaics to reduce fuel and to bring on green pick to lure grazing animals.

Anything else is pure speculation.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #371 - Jul 20^th, 2018 at 8:01am

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:20pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 7:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 4:07pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Still unable to use the quote function, Geoff. Get back to me once you've worked it out. Roll Eyes

More pedantics Roll Eyes

It was easy as to understand & didn't require quotes.

The quote function exists for a purpose. It makes it easier to read what is being said. Geoff deliberately refuses to use it. He needs to learn to conform to the accepted norm of debate. Roll Eyes

Since when do you set the rules? Grin

The "norm" of debate"?

You certainly are a "Norm " alright.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #372 - Jul 20^th, 2018 at 8:02am

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:18pm:

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:10pm:

you dont get it either- well well-a dying breed thankfully

Not surprising, really, considering that they have invested so much time and effort in trying to refute the documentary record. Roll Eyes

what are they so scared of historical fact I wonder

That's just it Agnes it's not "fact" ... it's speculative theory.

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Gnads

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #373 - Jul 20^th, 2018 at 8:07am

Aussie wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:40pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:36pm:

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 7:43pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 7:00pm:

Brian are you afraid to even offer an opinion on the author's claim that burning grass to hunt roos is a type of farming? Why would you express support for something so stupid?

Why is it stupid FD?

Hunting kangaroos is not farming.

Is herding sheep ~ farming, Effendi?

Yes the sheep are confined ... their reproduction is arranged/controlled & their husbandry managed. They are not just killed for consumption. The use of by-products is much more diverse.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #374 - Jul 20^th, 2018 at 8:10am

Auggie wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:56pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:46pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:40pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 8:36pm:

Agnes wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 7:43pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2018 at 7:00pm:

Brian are you afraid to even offer an opinion on the author's claim that burning grass to hunt roos is a type of farming? Why would you express support for something so stupid?

Why is it stupid FD?

Hunting kangaroos is not farming.

Is herding sheep ~ farming, Effendi?

Do you have a point Aussie? Or is this just another stupid question session?

Well, your implication is that kangaroo farming doesn't indicate sophistication in a civilisation, but neither does sheep herding? So, do you have any other reasons to support your point?

It's wool growing & lamb & mutton production in an enclosed environment.

They are not ranged/herded in the sense you imply.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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