Australian Politics Forum - Science vs. Religion

Raven

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #45 - Sep 7^th, 2018 at 11:37pm

Cu Chulainn wrote on Sep 7^th, 2018 at 9:01pm:

Raven wrote on Sep 6^th, 2018 at 8:46pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2018 at 6:11pm:

Hmmm you guys are asking me to believe something that is even more incredible than the God theory.

The big bang can only work if there is a God, think about it something so small it can sit on the end of the point of a pin exploded and the universe was formed, how do they know it was so small, why did it explode…?...where did all the matter come from.

Just because they cannot explain why the universe is expanding, they came up with a hypothesis that is even more incredible than the God theory under the guise of science and you believe that.

First thing you are taught in physics is you cannot make something from nothing, why should this not hold true for a silly hypothesis that cannot even prove..??

Yet the God theory sounds so ridiculous to all of you.

Or that the ingredients of life transported to Earth by a meteor and the diversity of life found on the Earth came from a maggot that formed and crawled out of the sea.

The truth is nobody knows and all will be revealed when we all pass from this life, unfortunately it’s a one way ticket.

The only thing I have to say about religion is, if Jesus had found milk and honey with the pharisees and the scribes I probably wouldn't believe in the God theory.

So if God created the universe then you would believe that God is all powerful, correct?

Youngest son used to go to a Christian Youth Group, he was even a youth leader. Then one day, he was asked to never come back to hang out with his friends. He asked that question. When the elders answered yes he then asked, ok if that is the case can he create a rock so heavy he can't lift it? The elders, without much thought obviously, answered yes. He then asked how then could he be all powerful if he can't lift it?

According to the Bibe, god is not all powerful.

Judges 1:19 "And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

It seems ferrous is Kryptonite to god.

Why would an "all powerful" creator limit his "power?"

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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issuevoter

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #46 - Sep 8^th, 2018 at 7:05am

Raven wrote on Sep 7^th, 2018 at 11:37pm:

Cu Chulainn wrote on Sep 7^th, 2018 at 9:01pm:

Raven wrote on Sep 6^th, 2018 at 8:46pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2018 at 6:11pm:

Hmmm you guys are asking me to believe something that is even more incredible than the God theory.

The big bang can only work if there is a God, think about it something so small it can sit on the end of the point of a pin exploded and the universe was formed, how do they know it was so small, why did it explode…?...where did all the matter come from.

Just because they cannot explain why the universe is expanding, they came up with a hypothesis that is even more incredible than the God theory under the guise of science and you believe that.

First thing you are taught in physics is you cannot make something from nothing, why should this not hold true for a silly hypothesis that cannot even prove..??

Yet the God theory sounds so ridiculous to all of you.

Or that the ingredients of life transported to Earth by a meteor and the diversity of life found on the Earth came from a maggot that formed and crawled out of the sea.

The truth is nobody knows and all will be revealed when we all pass from this life, unfortunately it’s a one way ticket.

The only thing I have to say about religion is, if Jesus had found milk and honey with the pharisees and the scribes I probably wouldn't believe in the God theory.

So if God created the universe then you would believe that God is all powerful, correct?

Youngest son used to go to a Christian Youth Group, he was even a youth leader. Then one day, he was asked to never come back to hang out with his friends. He asked that question. When the elders answered yes he then asked, ok if that is the case can he create a rock so heavy he can't lift it? The elders, without much thought obviously, answered yes. He then asked how then could he be all powerful if he can't lift it?

According to the Bibe, god is not all powerful.

Judges 1:19 "And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

It seems ferrous is Kryptonite to god.

Why would an "all powerful" creator limit his "power?"

That's an interesting Bible quote. It supports the suggestion that Abrahamic scripture is not original, but is modified paganism.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49071 At my desk.	Re: Science vs. Religion Reply #47 - Sep 8^th, 2018 at 6:35pm That's like comparing maths with art.
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Amadd

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #48 - Sep 21^st, 2018 at 10:23am

freediver wrote on Sep 8^th, 2018 at 6:35pm:

That's like comparing maths with art.

Do you mean the art of BS?

Maybe I should have said science vs science vs religion because science does a far better job at refuting itself then any god botherering religion could.

Yes there's a lot of art depicting biblical scenes. These were created by artists, not clergymen.
The clergymen were too busy buggering their children.

I can go with the notion that science is also a faith. I have far more faith that an object will free fall at 9.8m/s/s than a man walking on water and rising into the sky.

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Jasin

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #49 - Sep 21^st, 2018 at 10:41am

Amadd wrote on Sep 21^st, 2018 at 10:23am:

freediver wrote on Sep 8^th, 2018 at 6:35pm:

That's like comparing maths with art.

Do you mean the art of BS?

Maybe I should have said science vs science vs religion because science does a far better job at refuting itself then any god botherering religion could.

Yes there's a lot of art depicting biblical scenes. These were created by artists, not clergymen.
The clergymen were too busy buggering their children.

I can go with the notion that science is also a faith. I have far more faith that an object will free fall at 9.8m/s/s than a man walking on water and rising into the sky.

Many Scientists, Atheists & Celebrities (many of whom share the ANTI religion stance) - bugger children too.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Yadda

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #50 - Sep 21^st, 2018 at 11:23am

Raven wrote on Sep 7^th, 2018 at 11:37pm:

According to the Bibe, god is not all powerful.

Judges 1:19 "And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

It seems ferrous is Kryptonite to god.

Why would an "all powerful" creator limit his "power?"

Raven,

Nice scripture quote, but you got the emphasis wrong in the reading of that quote.

[And yes, i concede that the emphasis within that scripture quote is not clear in its reading.]

Judges 1:17
And Judah went with Simeon his brother, and they slew the Canaanites that inhabited Zephath, and utterly destroyed it. And the name of the city was called Hormah.
18 Also Judah took Gaza with the coast thereof, and Askelon with the coast thereof, and Ekron with the coast thereof.
19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but [Judah] could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
20 And they gave Hebron unto Caleb, as Moses said: and he expelled thence the three sons of Anak.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Amadd

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #51 - Sep 21^st, 2018 at 11:21pm

Jasin wrote on Sep 21^st, 2018 at 10:41am:

Amadd wrote on Sep 21^st, 2018 at 10:23am:

freediver wrote on Sep 8^th, 2018 at 6:35pm:

That's like comparing maths with art.

Do you mean the art of BS?

Maybe I should have said science vs science vs religion because science does a far better job at refuting itself then any god botherering religion could.

Yes there's a lot of art depicting biblical scenes. These were created by artists, not clergymen.
The clergymen were too busy buggering their children.

I can go with the notion that science is also a faith. I have far more faith that an object will free fall at 9.8m/s/s than a man walking on water and rising into the sky.

Many Scientists, Atheists & Celebrities (many of whom share the ANTI religion stance) - bugger children too.

I agree. And they often gravitate to areas where they are around children. Clowns, scout leaders, child entertainers, clergymen etc.

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #52 - Sep 22^nd, 2018 at 2:05pm

Amadd wrote on Sep 21^st, 2018 at 10:23am:

I can go with the notion that science is also a faith. I have far more faith that an object will free fall at 9.8m/s/s than a man walking on water and rising into the sky.

Science isn't a faith because it can be tested, verified and proven.
You don't need to have faith that an object falls at 9.8 m/s/s. You can measure it and prove it.

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Raven

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #53 - Sep 22^nd, 2018 at 8:06pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 21^st, 2018 at 11:23am:

Raven wrote on Sep 7^th, 2018 at 11:37pm:

According to the Bibe, god is not all powerful.

Judges 1:19 "And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

It seems ferrous is Kryptonite to god.

Why would an "all powerful" creator limit his "power?"

Raven,

Nice scripture quote, but you got the emphasis wrong in the reading of that quote.

[And yes, i concede that the emphasis within that scripture quote is not clear in its reading.]

Judges 1:17
And Judah went with Simeon his brother, and they slew the Canaanites that inhabited Zephath, and utterly destroyed it. And the name of the city was called Hormah.
18 Also Judah took Gaza with the coast thereof, and Askelon with the coast thereof, and Ekron with the coast thereof.
19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but [Judah] could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
20 And they gave Hebron unto Caleb, as Moses said: and he expelled thence the three sons of Anak.

Which version are you quoting?

You admit the emphasis is not clear. So how did Raven get the emphasis wrong?

You've added Judah's name in the scripture. Are you sure you are right to do so? And even if you are right, god was with him and he still failed.

This does not sound like an all powerful creator.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Frank

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #54 - Sep 22^nd, 2018 at 8:29pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Aug 17^th, 2018 at 9:47pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 7:24pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 5:01pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 8:01pm:

faith in god cannot be falsified. Agnosticism is applying scientific methods to religion. Atheism is totally unscientific as there is no disproving, only counter-hypothesising about god and religion.

It is easy to prove that religion is a man made construct.
Therefore the null hypothosis is that there is no God.
The onus of proof lies with the religious.
There is no point in even entertaining the idea of the existence of God until there is proof.

Science is man made. Everything in your head is man-made. All the proofs are man-made.

I never said it wasn't, in fact my post made no mention of science at all.
It is only the theists who want to claim a supernatural entity, so the burden of proof is on them.

Natural proofs cannot be applied to supernatural beings.

That's a trivially interesting point but a lot of people fail to see it. What is much more significant is that much of what is human experience is also beyond natural, scientific explanations. Most of the significant things about us as human beings, a persons, is completely beyond natural and scientific explanations.

The entities of 'I' and 'you' are utterly non-scientific categories yet we live our lives in 'I and you' relationships.

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Yadda

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #55 - Sep 22^nd, 2018 at 9:31pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 21^st, 2018 at 11:23am:

Raven,

Nice scripture quote, but you got the emphasis wrong in the reading of that quote.

[And yes, i concede that the emphasis within that scripture quote is not clear in its reading.]

Judges 1:17
And Judah went with Simeon his brother, and they slew the Canaanites that inhabited Zephath, and utterly destroyed it. And the name of the city was called Hormah.
18 Also Judah took Gaza with the coast thereof, and Askelon with the coast thereof, and Ekron with the coast thereof.
19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but [Judah] could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
20 And they gave Hebron unto Caleb, as Moses said: and he expelled thence the three sons of Anak.

Raven wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2018 at 8:06pm:

Which version are you quoting?

KJV

You admit the emphasis is not clear. So how did Raven get the emphasis wrong?

as i said, the emphasis within that scripture quote is not clear in its reading

You've added Judah's name in the scripture.

yes i did.

Are you sure you are right to do so?

i simply added Judah's name, in my reply to your post, for clarity in the reading of that verse.

And even if you are right, god was with him and he still failed.

This does not sound like an all powerful creator.

no, it doesn't.

hmm, i wonder why Judah 'could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley' ?

there must be a reason why.

maybe it was because the tribe of Judah was 'afoot', and the inhabitants of the valley had chariots of iron ?

sorta like men on foot carrying swords, going up against opponents in/on a form of cavalry.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Science vs. Religion Reply #56 - Sep 23^rd, 2018 at 7:50am There are other stupid things in the Bible. You don't need to fixate on 1.
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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21779 A cat with a view	Re: Science vs. Religion Reply #57 - Sep 23^rd, 2018 at 8:17am issuevoter wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2018 at 7:50am: There are other stupid things in the Bible. You don't need to fixate on 1. Exactly correct issue. Did you get that Raven ? Don't get so fixated upon Kryptonite chariots ferrous chariots Raven.
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The_Barnacle

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #58 - Sep 23^rd, 2018 at 11:27am

Frank wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2018 at 8:29pm:

Natural proofs cannot be applied to supernatural beings.

That's convenient.

Frank wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2018 at 8:29pm:

That's a trivially interesting point but a lot of people fail to see it. What is much more significant is that much of what is human experience is also beyond natural, scientific explanations. Most of the significant things about us as human beings, a persons, is completely beyond natural and scientific explanations.

The entities of 'I' and 'you' are utterly non-scientific categories yet we live our lives in 'I and you' relationships.

I would argue that the sciences of psychology and anthropology could explain most of those things.

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Amadd

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Re: Science vs. Religion
Reply #59 - Sep 24^th, 2018 at 11:40am

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2018 at 2:05pm:

Amadd wrote on Sep 21^st, 2018 at 10:23am:

I can go with the notion that science is also a faith. I have far more faith that an object will free fall at 9.8m/s/s than a man walking on water and rising into the sky.

Science isn't a faith because it can be tested, verified and proven.
You don't need to have faith that an object falls at 9.8 m/s/s. You can measure it and prove it.

Yes agreed. By "faith" I mean "complete trust and confidence", just like I have faith that religions are bs. God speaks in maths not words.

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