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Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday (Read 5140 times)
lee
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #30 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 3:28pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 12:10pm:
what does it say in your 101 climate skeptics manual ?



Oh dear lastnail shows he is incapable of logical thought. Again.
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Bam
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #31 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 5:16pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 10:13am:
Bam wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 9:39am:
aquascoot wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:15am:
greenhouse gases Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

the longest ski season ever in the snowy mountains this year.
still minus 2 in canberra.

luckt they didnt take Flannerys advice and close thredbo

Uneducated people confuse climate with weather and don't use proper punctuation or capitalisation. Are you one of these people?  Huh


uneducated people listen to people like flannery who have vested financial interests in the rubbish they spruke

You haven't answered my question. Why not?

Do you know the difference between climate and weather?
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Bam
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #32 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 5:22pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 11:06am:
lee wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 11:03am:
Bam wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:59pm:
That's why it's called a "runaway greenhouse." Once the water vapour starts making a critical contribution, it is game over because it accelerates in a positive feedback. It won't stop until the oceans boil away and are lost to space. When does that happen? Nobody knows for sure but it could be closer than we think.



Citation needed. please show the empirical studies that show this will occur. raher than your usual blather. Wink


Even if he could you'd just get out your climate skeptics 101 excuse book to refute it as usual.

Yeah, it's a waste of time providing links to this "lee" person because he doesn't read them, ignores the obvious and continues his frothy-mouthed denialist lunacy. He's too far gone with his terminal conservative ossification to be convinced of even basic science. It's why I don't bother anymore when he whines about links, he's too trolly. Why should I cast pearls before swine?
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Bam
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #33 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 5:33pm
 
lee wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 11:22am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 11:06am:
Even if he could you'd just get out your climate skeptics 101 excuse book to refute it as usual.



So you are saying he can't? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

And Venus is only 26M miles closer to the Sun. Wink

Planetary science and stellar evolution are just a couple of many science topics where your ignorance is far too great to be corrected on a forum. Others could explain, but you'll be whining ceaselessly to your betters demanding citations for matters that can be found in textbooks.

You clearly spent far too much time in your school years disrupting classes. Maybe you should go back there. It seems a better use of your time.
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lee
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #34 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 5:37pm
 
Bam wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 5:22pm:
Yeah, it's a waste of time providing links to this "lee" person because he doesn't read them, ignores the obvious and continues his frothy-mouthed denialist lunacy.



But mainly because you don't have any links. Wink

Bam wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 5:22pm:
Why should I cast pearls before swine?



because you also don't have any pearls. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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lee
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #35 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 5:40pm
 
Bam wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 5:33pm:
Others could explain, but you'll be whining ceaselessly to your betters demanding citations for matters that can be found in textbooks.



But not you; because you don't know anything. Wink

Bam wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 5:33pm:
You clearly spent far too much time in your school years disrupting classes. Maybe you should go back there. It seems a better use of your time.



Ooh. Ad hims. Those things you go to when you don't have anything germane to add to the proposition. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Perhaps you think it makes you sound semi-intelligent.
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Bam
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #36 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 7:02pm
 
An article that shows how the government sat on these woeful figures for some time and then released them quietly late on Grand Final eve after deadline:

Taking out the trash: government hides shocking emissions figures

Quote:
The Department of Environment and Energy quietly released a concerning report while everyone was preoccupied with AFL and NRL. This marks Australia’s 15th quarter of consecutive increased annual emissions.

The release of six-month-old, record-breaking greenhouse gas figures late last Friday was met with cynicism, outrage, and a solid shot at spin over the weekend. More importantly, it caps off four consecutive years of emission increases and exposes any pretense that Australia will meet its climate obligations.

In the lead-up to the weekend’s AFL and NRL grand finals, and coinciding with the banking royal commission’s interim report, the Department of Environment and Energy released a quarterly emissions report demonstrating a 1.3% annual increase to March 2018.

For critics, the timing is suspicious. Just last week, the Climate Council were calling out the government’s six-month delay and, pointing to other releases timed around Christmas Eve, acting CEO Dr Martin Rice painted Friday’s report as a “cynical attempt to avoid scrutiny”.

But timing aside, the fact is Australia increased its total output by 6.8 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (Mt CO2-e) from March 2017 to 2018. It’s Australia’s 15th quarter of consecutive increased annual emissions and, excluding unreliable land use data, proof of Australia’s highest recorded level of carbon output at 536.7 Mt CO2-e.

At a time when places like the UK are down to 1890s levels, this result raises questions about how long Australia can go without a carbon price. Though this was implemented for just two years (2012-14), we know it helped decrease total emissions (1.4% in that final, second full year).

Our latest annual jump can mostly be attributed to Australia’s expansion in gas exports and production, which pushed our fourth largest sector (fugitive emissions) up by 13.7%. Australia also saw by a 2.1% increase in our second largest polluter (transport) and a 4.1% jump in our third (stationary energy excluding electricity, i.e. heating).

This was all offset by a 4.3% decline in Australia’s largest polluter, electricity emissions, and thanks largely to reduced demand, Hazelwood’s 2017 closure, and the growth of renewable energy.

For more on that point, Prime Minister Scott Morrison told Insiders on Sunday that Australia has “hit the threshold point, where the investments make sense, increasingly, without subsidies”.

“We still have large-scale and the small-scale RET [Renewable Energy Target] policies in place, we still have the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, and we still have the Emissions Reduction Fund for the period that it’s currently for.”

Morrison, it needs to be said, does a strong job emphasising the 28-year-per-capita low, and is correct in putting much of this electricity progress down to the 2020 Renewable Energy Target, CEFC and sheer economics. But it’s more difficult to claim credit for it. Add in state and territory action (including South Australia’s new Liberal government), and we have four success stories the federal government either had nothing to do with, tried to kill, actively undermined, or just announced they will let die in 2020.

There’s also Morrison’s assurance that, with a climate policy vacuum and plan to end the RET, Australia will meet its 2030 Paris target of a 26% reduction on 2005 levels at “a canter”, and admission that “none of us are Nostradamus in this”. Crikey has sought clarification on the former point, but has not received comment before deadline.

Both of these statements fly in the face of work done by the Australia Institute, NDEVR Environmental, ClimateWorks Australia, the United Nations, and the Australian government, with the Department of Environment and Energy projecting last year that, under current policies, our 2021-2030 emissions reduction task will be missed by 868-934 MtCO₂e.


...
Australia’s emissions projections 2017 (Source: Department of Environment and Energy)

Quote:
The Climate Council’s Martin Rice tells Crikey that even Australia’s 26% commitment is “woefully inadequate and is not aligned with what science says is necessary to effectively tackle climate change”.

Scott Morrison has addressed these concerns over targets in relation to Labor — and will likely do so more frequently as election season approaches. “Labor has a 45% emissions reduction target, we all know what that will do,” he said. “It will put up electricity prices by $1400 for every household in the country.”

Does that stack up? A recent Frontier Economics report found Australian households will experience savings leading to 2030 where policy remains business as usual or moves to 26%, 45%, and 65% targets, with “45%” exceeding “business as usual” prices by roughly 0.02%.

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« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2018 at 8:55am by Bam »  

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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lee
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #37 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 7:05pm
 
So emissions are below 2006? Scary. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

And still Australia is a net carbon sink. Wink
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Bam
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #38 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 7:16pm
 
lee wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 7:05pm:
So emissions are below 2006? Scary. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

And still Australia is a net carbon sink. Wink

I see you're indulging your tendency to frothy-mouthed lunacy again.  Cheesy

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lee
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #39 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 7:22pm
 
Bam wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 7:16pm:
I see you're indulging your tendency to frothy-mouthed lunacy again.



i see you can't read a graph.
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #40 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:09am
 
that article is truly shocking Bam.
i cant believe we actually pay shiney bum numpties to sit on a climate council. Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #41 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 8:54am
 
Climate data release again delayed by Government, FOI documents show

Quote:
Key points:
* Australia failing to rein in greenhouse gas pollution in line with Paris agreement
* Government sat on most recent emissions report for two months
* Advocates accuse Government of 'hiding climate data from Australians'

A report showing Australia is failing to rein in its greenhouse gas pollution was sat on for nearly two months by the Federal Government, before being released late on a Friday afternoon of a long weekend when footy finals fever and banking royal commission findings were dominating headlines, the ABC has learned.

The delay is revealed in documents obtained under freedom of information laws by the Australian Conservation Foundation (ACF).

The Government has released this quarterly report under similar circumstances in the past, leading to calls for it to be controlled by an agency and not politicians.

"There is a clear trend here that the Government is hiding climate data from Australians," ACF chief executive Kelly O'Shanassy said.

A spokesperson for Environment Minister Melissa Price told the ABC, "Ministers routinely and appropriately consider briefs for a period of time".

The latest report — the Department of Environment's quarterly Update of Australia's National Greenhouse Gas Inventory — showed, after adjustment for seasonal variation, in the three months of this year Australia had the highest levels of carbon pollution since 2011.

It also revealed a continuation of the trend of upward annual emissions since 2013.

And excluding controversial data about emissions from tree clearing and regrowth, Australia's emissions reached an all-time high in the 12 months to March this year.

Data sat on for seven weeks

The documents show on August 9 — seven weeks before the data's release — it was sent to the offices of both the current Environment Minister Melissa Price, in her role as assistant minister, and the then-environment minister, Josh Frydenberg, along with a ministerial briefing.

Assistant secretary of the Department of Environment Rob Sturgess said to representatives of the two offices:

"Gday. Not sure how busy you are this week … but attached is the quarterly update."

Later that month, there was a cabinet reshuffle after Scott Morrison took over as Prime Minister.

And on September 6, the Department of Environment sent it again to the office of the new minister, Ms Price. Three weeks later, on a Friday afternoon, the report was publicly released.

That day was a public holiday in Victoria and preceded a long weekend in several other states marked by celebrations for the NRL and the AFL grand finals.

It was also released immediately after the banking royal commission handed down its interim report.

A spokesman for Ms Price said: "The Department of Environment and Energy provided the Minister for Environment with advice on the Quarterly Update of the National Greenhouse Gas Inventory on September 3, 2018."

In a press-release published a few days before the report was released, the Climate Council anticipated it happening at a time that would minimise attention on it.

"This has become a worryingly familiar scenario," Climate Council acting chief Dr Martin Rice said.

"The Federal Government not only delays releasing climate information, it also tries to bury it. We've seen emissions data quietly released on Christmas Eve, or on a Friday evening, at a time it's least likely to attract attention or scrutiny."

Ms O'Shanassy said it was time to take the release of the data out of politicians' hands.

"We think climate data should be treated like jobs figures and GDP figures that are released by a government agency, not politicians, so they can't hide it.," she said.

"You can imagine the uproar if they hid jobs or economic figures. But hiding climate figures is reckless because climate change is here now and affecting every Australian."

(continued)

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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #42 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 8:55am
 
Quote:
'People choose and pick their figures': PM

After the report was uploaded to a government website, the office of Ms Price sent out a media release with the subject line: "Australia on track to meet emissions targets" and headlined "emissions intensity at lowest levels for 28 years".

The release did not mention emissions had gone up, but instead focused on comparing the current figures to those from 2005 and 2000 — years when emissions were higher than they are now.

It also focused on emissions per head of population, which have declined.

Two days later, Prime Minister Scott Morrison was asked about the emissions data on the ABC's Insiders.

"I know people will want to use that one figure and ignore the fact that emissions per capita are at the lowest level in 28 years," he said.

"So people choose and pick their figures to make their political arguments. We're going to meet those in a canter, our 26 per cent target."

But the documents released under FOI laws show the "key points" highlighted by the experts at the Department of Environment and delivered to the Minister also focused almost exclusively on the rising emissions.

Ms O'Shanassy said the total figure was the only one that mattered.

"The climate doesn't care if you're pumping out less pollution per population or relative to GDP," she said.

Is Australian on track to meet Paris deal?

On Insiders, Mr Morrison repeated his earlier claim Australia was on track to meet its commitment made at the Paris summit to reduce emissions to 26 per cent below 2005 levels by 2030, "in a canter".

"All of the issues are pointing to that outcome so I'm comfortable with our 26 per cent," he said.

He was reiterating comments earlier in the month made on the ABC's 7.30 program.

"What we're seeing though is a business-as-usual approach, a technology-driven approach, which will see us, I think, more than meet our targets out to 2030," Mr Morrison said.

That view is at odds with the Government's official projections, last updated in December 2017, which show under business as usual, emissions will increase steadily all the way to 2030.

"Emissions are rising and there's no national plan to turn it around," Ms O'Shanassy said.

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if we don't have a plan, we're not going to meet our emission target.

"They're kicking the can down the road for the next government but in doing so they're putting lives at risk because climate change is dangerous."

Ms Price's spokesman said: "The 2017 review of climate change policy said Australia has the right mix of polices and improvements in technology.

"The Government's policies are scalable and will enable Australia to meet the 2030 target."
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #43 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:46am
 
yeh but you don't understand, we are still a carbon sink according to lees 101 skeptics excuse manual Cheesy LOL
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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lee
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Re: Muppets release bad CO₂ news late on GF Friday
Reply #44 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 12:19pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:46am:
yeh but you don't understand, we are still a carbon sink according to lees 101 skeptics excuse manual



So you disbelieve the satellite data? Are you a Luddite?

But since you disbelieve that how about this?

"Australia has 149 million hectares of forest.  Of this, 147 million hectares is native forest, dominated by eucalypt (79%) and acacia (7%), and 1.82 million hectares is in plantations[i]. Grassland covers around 440 million hectares of land in Australia[ii]. "

" Science tells us that the range for forests with continuous canopies is about 0.5-2 tonnes of carbon per year for each hectare.  Grasslands may have a similar annual rate of net carbon uptake[i], but the long-term storage of carbon per hectare of grasslands is less than that over an average hectare in woody trees. "

https://www.chiefscientist.gov.au/2009/12/which-plants-store-more-carbon-in-aust...

Australia's Mountain Ash can store up to 10 times more.

"In the past 12 months the annual level of emissions reached a record level of 559m tonnes CO2-e if we exclude the controversial component of “land use, land use change and forestry” (LULUCF), which includes a measure for the amount of forest and grasslands and the amounts of those cut down or converted to other uses."

https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2018/oct/01/australias-emission...

Although he doesn't seem to understand the word "record". Even his graph shows 2006 being higher.

So if we were to take a conservative 1 t/hectare and there are 589 million hectares of forest and grassland (149 +  440); then we have covered our emissions.
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