Australian Politics Forum - The problem with conservatism

Auggie

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The problem with conservatism
Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:02pm

The problem with conservatism is that it's almost impossible to NOT get into bed with bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes. Even if you try to be decent conservative, most people cannot show restraint, which ultimately forces them to the extreme.

The other problem is that whatever policy the government puts into practice is eventually absorbed by society and becomes socially-acceptable. For e.g. enforcing racial integration in America (via the government's coercive power) has led to a greater acceptance of racial tolerance and anti-racism.

By repealing same-sex marriage, or by significantly reducing immigration, the government would only be giving social sanction to homophobes and xenophobes. The idea is to shape society into being more accepting and tolerant. E.g. forcing religious schools to accept gays will lead to a society that is more accepting of gays and lesbians.

It's impossible to really be a decent conservative now; it's really about whether or not you're a bigot or not a bigot.

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: The problem with conservatism Reply #1 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:08pm Yes, if you are not a progressive, you are an unworthy member of society. How can we prove this? Easily, the Left has your best interests at heart. With that philosophy, how could they possibly be wrong about anything?
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Mr Hammer

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #2 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:50pm

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:02pm:

The problem with conservatism is that it's almost impossible to NOT get into bed with bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes. Even if you try to be decent conservative, most people cannot show restraint, which ultimately forces them to the extreme.

The other problem is that whatever policy the government puts into practice is eventually absorbed by society and becomes socially-acceptable. For e.g. enforcing racial integration in America (via the government's coercive power) has led to a greater acceptance of racial tolerance and anti-racism.

By repealing same-sex marriage, or by significantly reducing immigration, the government would only be giving social sanction to homophobes and xenophobes. The idea is to shape society into being more accepting and tolerant. E.g. forcing religious schools to accept gays will lead to a society that is more accepting of gays and lesbians.

It's impossible to really be a decent conservative now; it's really about whether or not you're a bigot or not a bigot.

Leftism is about forcing your views on to other people and not only must you like it but love it. It's out of wack with what middle Australia and the west in general wants. That's why the US and many western nations are experiencing increasing social breakdown. It's the new form of elitism and is an attack on the white lower classes. It's class warfare .

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 101796 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The problem with conservatism Reply #3 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 4:13pm Bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes - have a right to their opinion in a free society. The left wing of politics wants to control the way you think. It's Big Brother politics.
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Auggie

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #4 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:28pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:50pm:

Leftism is about forcing your views on to other people and not only must you like it but love it. It's out of wack with what middle Australia and the west in general wants. That's why the US and many western nations are experiencing increasing social breakdown. It's the new form of elitism and is an attack on the white lower classes. It's class warfare .

Is it wrong to force an opinion on other people that condemns slavery or that treats women as second-class citizens?

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Auggie

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #5 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:30pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes -

have a right to their opinion in a free society.

The left wing of politics wants to control the way you think.
It's Big Brother politics.

They have a right to an opinion.

I also have the right to be offended, and to not support you if you express that right.

What the free speech advocates really want is to be able to say whatever they want without consequences. They demand that people treat them equally with respect notwithstanding they've just insulted a person or their kin.

You can't have it both ways.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #6 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:32pm

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:30pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes -

have a right to their opinion in a free society.

The left wing of politics wants to control the way you think.
It's Big Brother politics.

They have a right to an opinion.

I also have the right to be offended, and to not support you if you express that right.

What the free speech advocates really want is to be able to say whatever they want without consequences. They demand that people treat them equally with respect notwithstanding they've just insulted a person or their kin.

You can't have it both ways.

What do you consider to be consequences?

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Auggie

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #7 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:34pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:32pm:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:30pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes -

have a right to their opinion in a free society.

The left wing of politics wants to control the way you think.
It's Big Brother politics.

They have a right to an opinion.

I also have the right to be offended, and to not support you if you express that right.

What the free speech advocates really want is to be able to say whatever they want without consequences. They demand that people treat them equally with respect notwithstanding they've just insulted a person or their kin.

You can't have it both ways.

What do you consider to be consequences?

For e.g. in the case of QANTAS withdrawing support for Israel Folau after he made his homophobic comment. Alan Joyce, himself gay, surely should've been offended by this comment.

Cory Bernadi then defended Folau's actions by labelling what QANTAS did as 'corporate bullying'. If it had been reversed and the church withdrawn funding because Joyce made a comment about christianity, that'd be ok I bet with Bernadi.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #8 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:37pm

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:34pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:32pm:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:30pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes -

have a right to their opinion in a free society.

The left wing of politics wants to control the way you think.
It's Big Brother politics.

They have a right to an opinion.

I also have the right to be offended, and to not support you if you express that right.

What the free speech advocates really want is to be able to say whatever they want without consequences. They demand that people treat them equally with respect notwithstanding they've just insulted a person or their kin.

You can't have it both ways.

What do you consider to be consequences?

For e.g. in the case of QANTAS withdrawing support for Israel Folau after he made his homophobic comment. Alan Joyce, himself gay, surely should've been offended by this comment.

Cory Bernadi then defended Folau's actions by labelling what QANTAS did as 'corporate bullying'. If it had been reversed and the church withdrawn funding because Joyce made a comment about christianity, that'd be ok I bet with Bernadi.

So Joyce didn't respect Folau's religious beliefs. What about what happened to that guy who did that caricature of Serena Williams. Death threats and character assassination appropriate?

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Auggie

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #9 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:43pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:37pm:

So Joyce didn't respect Folau's religious beliefs.

So, Joyce should respect Folau's religious beliefs, but Folau should not just simply respect gays? Why does Folau's 'religious beliefs' trump those of Joyce's?

Question: if a law aimed at treating muslims, gays and women differently are considered 'enforcing the rights views onto others''?

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Auggie

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #10 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:45pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:37pm:

What about what happened to that guy who did that caricature of Serena Williams. Death threats and character assassination appropriate?

I didn't support the criticisms against the cartoon artist. I think it was a caricature and nothing more. You do also understand how some people can use caricatures to degrade the dignity of minorities?

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Mr Hammer

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #11 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:49pm

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:45pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:37pm:

What about what happened to that guy who did that caricature of Serena Williams. Death threats and character assassination appropriate?

I didn't support the criticisms against the cartoon artist. I think it was a caricature and nothing more. You do also understand how some people can use caricatures to degrade the dignity of minorities?

It's gone beyond constructive argument with the left auggie. Folau said gays are going to hell because that's what god botherers believe. Now you don't have to say something like" Hitler was a great man". All you have to do is to say something the left don't agree with. And they try to destroy people That's authoritarian.

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Bobby.

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #12 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:49pm

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:30pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes -

have a right to their opinion in a free society.

The left wing of politics wants to control the way you think.
It's Big Brother politics.

They have a right to an opinion.

I also have the right to be offended, and to not support you if you express that right.

What the free speech advocates really want is to be able to say whatever they want without consequences. They demand that people treat them equally with respect notwithstanding they've just insulted a person or their kin.

You can't have it both ways.

If you believe that someone's opinion is wrong then what's the problem?

Do you have a problem with this opinion?

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Auggie

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #13 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:50pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:49pm:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:30pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes -

have a right to their opinion in a free society.

The left wing of politics wants to control the way you think.
It's Big Brother politics.

They have a right to an opinion.

I also have the right to be offended, and to not support you if you express that right.

What the free speech advocates really want is to be able to say whatever they want without consequences. They demand that people treat them equally with respect notwithstanding they've just insulted a person or their kin.

You can't have it both ways.

If you believe that someone's opinion is wrong then what's the problem?

Do you have a problem with this opinion?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/Sudanese_crime_gangs_002.jpg

Yes, because it seeks to dehumanize people.

Do you think that dehumanization is acceptable?

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Bobby.

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #14 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:53pm

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:50pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:49pm:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 5:30pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 4:13pm:

Bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes -

have a right to their opinion in a free society.

The left wing of politics wants to control the way you think.
It's Big Brother politics.

They have a right to an opinion.

I also have the right to be offended, and to not support you if you express that right.

What the free speech advocates really want is to be able to say whatever they want without consequences. They demand that people treat them equally with respect notwithstanding they've just insulted a person or their kin.

You can't have it both ways.

If you believe that someone's opinion is wrong then what's the problem?

Do you have a problem with this opinion?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/Sudanese_crime_gangs_002.jpg

Yes, because it seeks to dehumanize people.

Do you think that dehumanization is acceptable?

So we have Sudanese gangs terrorising our Melbourne suburbs
and it's not OK to depict the truth in an image?

What is your solution to the problem of home invasions?

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