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⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜ (Read 127726 times)
Panther
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⮞ ⮞ Americans Will Continue to Oppose Gun Bans ⮜
Reply #1995 - Feb 4th, 2024 at 6:17pm
 
..


What/Who is the Militia?



Source:      
James Madison Research Library and Information Center
 
    Quote:
......Our Founding Fathers wasted no time in attributing this victory {over the English} to the Right of the People to keep and bear arms.

James Madison, the father of the Second Amendment, congratulated his countrymen:

   
Americans [have] the right and advantage of being armed – unlike citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.

Indeed, it was President George Washington who urged the first Congress to pass an act enrolling the entire adult male citizenry in a general militia. The father of our country further urged that "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined."

Washington's sentiments about the militia, and who should be included in the militia in the infant United States, were echoed by George Mason in the debate on the ratification of the Constitution before the Virginia Assembly:

"I ask, sir, what is the militia?

It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."



"Except for a few public officials."



➤ With these six words, George Mason made explicit his deep-set belief that the individual armed citizen was the key to protection against government excesses and in defense of freedom.

➤ James Madison expanded on this point in The Federalist Papers, number 46, where he downplayed the threat of seizure of authority by a federal army, because such a move would be opposed by "a militia amounting to half a million men."

In 1790, since the population of the United States was about 800,000, Madison wasn't referring to state reserves.

By militia, Madison obviously meant every able-bodied man capable of bearing arms.

This, undoubtedly, was also the meaning of "militia" when the Second Amendment was written.........



Continued...........
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« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2024 at 7:03pm by Panther »  

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Brian Ross
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #1996 - Feb 4th, 2024 at 6:23pm
 
...

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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #1997 - Feb 4th, 2024 at 9:48pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 6:23pm:

Darn right, Brian, they have the right to demand.
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Frank
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #1998 - Feb 4th, 2024 at 9:56pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 6:23pm:


You are not an American, cockwomble, why are you criticising and passing judgement on them?
Because you are a spineless hypochrite to your brittle bones.



I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them.  I am neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.
https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379233325/0#0


I see myself as Australian, not American.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1706844271/55#55

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Brian Ross
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #1999 - Feb 4th, 2024 at 10:01pm
 
Frank wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 9:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 6:23pm:


You are not an American, cockwomble, why are you criticising and passing judgement on them?
Because you are a spineless hypochrite to your brittle bones.


I do not claim to be an American, Soren.  I am not criticising as much as offering an alternative viewpoint, one that does not rely upon guns to achieve an end and one where the Rule of Law dominates.  Americans like to claim they are an advanced society yet their reliance on guns to dominate one another suggests otherwise.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #2000 - Feb 4th, 2024 at 10:09pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 10:01pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 9:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 6:23pm:


You are not an American, cockwomble, why are you criticising and passing judgement on them?
Because you are a spineless hypochrite to your brittle bones.


I do not claim to be an American, Soren.  I am not criticising as much as offering an alternative viewpoint, one that does not rely upon guns to achieve an end and one where the Rule of Law dominates.  Americans like to claim they are an advanced society yet their reliance on guns to dominate one another suggests otherwise.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Bollocks. You are demanding. That's not an aletrnative viewpoint.
You go all "wacist, Isslamophobe!!" if anyone offers Muslims an "alternative viewpoint" because for that one would have to share their religion or the citizenship of a Muslim country. Not so with Americans or Brits or Danes.
You are a spineless, squirming hypochrite.


I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them.  I am neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.
https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379233325/0#0



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« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2024 at 10:15pm by Frank »  

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Brian Ross
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #2001 - Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:39am
 
...
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philperth2010
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #2002 - Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:53am
 
Quote:
2ND AMENDMENT EXPLAINED
The 2nd Amendment does not, and never has, guaranteed a constitutional right for individual Americans to own guns.


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://americanenlightenmentproject.org/2nd-amendment-explained/

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/second-amendment-does-not-gu...
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Sir Eoin O Fada
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #2003 - Feb 5th, 2024 at 1:43pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:53am:
Quote:
2ND AMENDMENT EXPLAINED
The 2nd Amendment does not, and never has, guaranteed a constitutional right for individual Americans to own guns.


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://americanenlightenmentproject.org/2nd-amendment-explained/

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/second-amendment-does-not-gu...

Interesting, apparently they have difficulty in understanding the sentence
“. . . the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

The Militia depends on the people, not vice versa.

But can you explain its meaning, without going to dubious links?
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Self defence is a right.
 
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Panther
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #2004 - Feb 5th, 2024 at 2:12pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:53am:
Quote:
2ND AMENDMENT EXPLAINED
The 2nd Amendment does not, and never has, guaranteed a constitutional right for individual Americans to own guns........




Incorrect.......see the following & please take note it's for your enlightenment...


Source:      
The Supreme Court of the United States of America
       Quote:
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES

Syllabus

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ET AL. v. HELLER

CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CIRCUIT

No. 07–290. Argued March 18, 2008—Decided June 26, 2008

District of Columbia law bans handgun possession by making it a crime to carry an unregistered firearm and prohibiting the registration of handguns; provides separately that no person may carry an unlicensed handgun, but authorizes the police chief to issue 1-year licenses; and requires residents to keep lawfully owned firearms unloaded and dissembled or bound by a trigger lock or similar device.

Respondent Heller, a D. C. special policeman, applied to register a handgun he wished to keep at home, but the District refused. He filed this suit seeking, on Second Amendment grounds, to enjoin the city from enforcing the bar on handgun registration, the licensing requirement insofar as it prohibits carrying an unlicensed firearm in the home, and the trigger-lock requirement insofar as it prohibits the
use of functional firearms in the home.

The District Court dismissed the suit, but the D. C. Circuit reversed, holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to possess firearms and that the city’s total ban on handguns, as well as its requirement that firearms in the home be kept nonfunctional even when necessary for self-defense, violated that right.

Held:


1.
The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.


Pp. 2–53.

(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause.


The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms.


Pp. 2–22.

(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause.


The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense.

The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule.

The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.

Pp. 22–28.

(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment.


Pp. 28–30.

(d) The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious interpretive worth, reveals three state Second Amendment proposals that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms.


Pp. 30–32.

(e) Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion.


Pp. 32–47.

(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation.


Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553, nor Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 264–265, refutes the individual rights interpretation.

United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes.


Pp. 47–54.

2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose......


continued.......


I sincerely hope that this helps you, & other readers who were also confused about our American Second Amendment Rights.

Through this 2008 Supreme Court decision in Heller, the United States Supreme Court makes perfectly clear how the Law of the Land's Second Amendment must be understood going forward.

Edit: Since this 2008 Landmark Decision,  the United States Supreme Court further defined our 2nd Amendment Rights.
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« Last Edit: Feb 5th, 2024 at 2:42pm by Panther »  

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Brian Ross
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #2005 - Feb 5th, 2024 at 2:50pm
 
Oh, dearie, dearie me, a Republican dominated Supreme Court's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.  Whatever happened to the interpretation that the National Guard replaced the Militia?  What ever happened to the disorganised militia prevalent after the OK City bombing?  No mention of 'self-defence" in the 2nd Amendment. Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Sir Eoin O Fada
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #2006 - Feb 5th, 2024 at 3:11pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 5th, 2024 at 2:50pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie me, a Republican dominated Supreme Court's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.  Whatever happened to the interpretation that the National Guard replaced the Militia?  What ever happened to the disorganised militia prevalent after the OK City bombing?  No mention of 'self-defence" in the 2nd Amendment. Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Ah! Brian, perhaps you might give us the benefit of your undoubted wide knowledge of the World and English usage and tell us what the words of the Second Amendment really mean?
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Self defence is a right.
 
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Panther
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⮞⮞ Americans Will Continue to Oppose Gun Bans ⮜⮜
Reply #2007 - Feb 5th, 2024 at 3:31pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 5th, 2024 at 2:50pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie me, a Republican dominated Supreme Court's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.  Whatever happened to the interpretation that the National Guard replaced the Militia?  What ever happened to the disorganised militia prevalent after the OK City bombing?  No mention of 'self-defence" in the 2nd Amendment. Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


More of your slithering, split tongued bullshydt & unsupported/make-believe lies Bwian.....

Our United States Constitution, & in this case, Our Second Amendment to Our Constitution, is & will be further interpreted over time I'm sure, by the United States Supreme Court, & those interpretations are not subject to appeal. Their decisions can only be revisited/overturned by subsequent Supreme Courts, or if the American People want change or revision, then they.....the American People......have the sole power to amend our sacred American document.

That's not because I say it, it's what the Constitution  either directly mandates, or what it has been interpreted to mandate over the past 230+ years.

That said, suck it up Bwian.....OUR American Constitution is what 'We the People'....The American People, or OUR United States Supreme Court says it says.....says what it means.....period.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, f@rkin tsk that Bwian!!! ......... ...

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« Last Edit: Feb 5th, 2024 at 4:24pm by Panther »  

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Brian Ross
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #2008 - Feb 5th, 2024 at 4:40pm
 
...

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: ⮞ ⮞ Americans Oppose Gun Bans ⮜ ⮜
Reply #2009 - Feb 5th, 2024 at 5:14pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 5th, 2024 at 4:40pm:


And what does this graph signify to YOUR mind, Bbwian?


The article where the graph comes from has more to say than just your idiotically repeated single graph. Its main points are:
56% want stricter laws; 31% kept as they are now
Americans believe guns make homes safer rather than more dangerous
Steady 44% live in gun households



Americans See Guns as Enhancing Home Safety
Opposition to a handgun ban is consistent with Americans’ belief that having guns makes people’s homes safer rather than more dangerous. Currently, 64% believe guns make homes safer, while 32% believe they make them more dangerous.

Public opinion on this issue has shifted over time. When Gallup first asked this version of the question in 2000, a slim majority of 51% believed guns made homes more dangerous places to live. Americans’ views were evenly divided in 2004 and 2006, but by 2014, the majority had come to believe that guns made homes safer. Opinions have held steady since then.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/513623/majority-continues-favor-stricter-gun-laws.a...

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