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Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March (Read 18630 times)
Mr Hammer
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #210 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:38pm
 
John Smith wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:36pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:24pm:
ll they have done is worked out gross government expenditure on aborigines and the same for the general population. And divided it by their respective populations. So indirect expenditure would be contained in both figures.



again, where does it say that?
So you believe they fudged the general population figures to make the abos look needy?
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Karnal
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #211 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:46pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:33pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:29pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:25pm:
You don't care ? Jan 26 it stays then?



I don't care. Others do. If you read my comments properly you'd see that I also said ' Maybe we can celebrate the day we came together at a date no one takes issue with?

Why are you so opposed to finding a day that everyone can agree on? Do you think it'll change how you feel about australia?

Because the only date the aborigines will be happy to celebrate is a treaty date like what NZ has. That won't bring the country together but will make them happy. If that happens Australia will explode.


Oh, I know. That's what you said about the hommers too, no?

They exploded alright.
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #212 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:50pm
 
Karnal wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:46pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:33pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:29pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:25pm:
You don't care ? Jan 26 it stays then?



I don't care. Others do. If you read my comments properly you'd see that I also said ' Maybe we can celebrate the day we came together at a date no one takes issue with?

Why are you so opposed to finding a day that everyone can agree on? Do you think it'll change how you feel about australia?

Because the only date the aborigines will be happy to celebrate is a treaty date like what NZ has. That won't bring the country together but will make them happy. If that happens Australia will explode.


Oh, I know. That's what you said about the hommers too, no?

They exploded alright.

You might not have a problem with  becoming a guest in your own country but us real males don't fold that easy princess.
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Karnal
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #213 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 11:38pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:50pm:
Karnal wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:46pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:33pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:29pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:25pm:
You don't care ? Jan 26 it stays then?



I don't care. Others do. If you read my comments properly you'd see that I also said ' Maybe we can celebrate the day we came together at a date no one takes issue with?

Why are you so opposed to finding a day that everyone can agree on? Do you think it'll change how you feel about australia?

Because the only date the aborigines will be happy to celebrate is a treaty date like what NZ has. That won't bring the country together but will make them happy. If that happens Australia will explode.


Oh, I know. That's what you said about the hommers too, no?

They exploded alright.

You might not have a problem with  becoming a guest in your own country but us real males don't fold that easy princess.


No worries, you stay unfolded with the old boy, Homo. He likes Danish.

You?
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mothra
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #214 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 12:31am
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:10pm:
mothra wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:04pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 7:57pm:
mothra wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 7:41pm:
Gnads wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 6:07pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 5:54pm:
After all these years of whinging the abos have never given us an alternative for Jan 26. That's because it would give away what this is really all about. What they want is a treaty day like the Maori have ( Waitangi Day). It all leads to this . They want us to pay rent and the whinging  will never end until they get it.


We spent $33 billion last year on rent to 500,000 people.



https://theconversation.com/factcheck-qanda-is-30-billion-spent-every-year-on-50...

Verdict

Warren Mundine’s statement uses the most accurate and up-to-date estimate of government spending on Indigenous Australians – about $30.3 billion, according to the Productivity Commission.

However, only a small proportion of the overall Indigenous expenditure is on Indigenous-specific programs. The rest comprises the cost of providing mainstream services, such as schooling and health care, that all Australians enjoy.

His figure of 500,000 Indigenous Australians is a bit low, likely reflecting reasonably common uncertainty on this question (as well as him being on the spot on a fast-paced, live TV program).

The general point about needing “to find out where the wastage of our funding is” is important, and requires careful evaluation of the impact and cost-effectiveness of Indigenous-specific and other social programs.


So directly and indirectly $60,600  is spent every year on roughly every aboriginal person while $20,900 is spent annually (directly and indirectly) on everybody else???


Please don;t tell me i need to explain it to you?

Read it again. Slowly.

3.3 billion divided by 500,000 is $60,000+ for  each person. Now even with essential services thrown in it's way over the $20,000 with essential services for everybody else. Prison incarceration, health services, maintaining remote communities, welfare etc  all high amongst aboriginal people. I can see why they cost so much. When are they going to PAY IT BACCCKKKK! da da da.



Two things:

You evidently did not read the link. There is closer to 700.000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in Australia ... so we're just wrong from the get-go.

Secondly, the sum total is not divisible by individuals by by services provided. These are services provided to all Australian people. It costs to provide infrastructure to remote ddwelling citizens.

Now, if you feel like challenging yourself, question why Aboriginal majority townships and their residents are in such a state of neglect they require constant band-aids.

Try to do it with knee-jerk racism.

Then you might be getting closer to the reality of the situation.

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freediver
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #215 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 6:17am
 
Quote:
It costs to provide infrastructure to remote ddwelling citizens.


Like houses?
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Gnads
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #216 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 7:19am
 
John Smith wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 7:22pm:
Gnads wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 5:47pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 2:11pm:
Gnads wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 10:34am:
John Smith wrote on Feb 4th, 2019 at 5:18pm:
Gnads wrote on Feb 3rd, 2019 at 5:33pm:
Just something the looney luvvies should take stock of .....



how many of those are national public holidays?


It's still days allocated & activities/celebrations organised ....

and I'll bet that if any of those who identify as AATSI, if they have a job will be allowed "cultural" leave.



you have no idea what Australia day actually means do you?


What? ... it's a recognition of Capt Arthur Phillips setting up the first settlement at Sydney Cove after first arriving at Port Jackson Botany Bay in 1788... as well as now being a celebration of this nations achievements past, present & future ... for all Australians.

Who hasn't got a clue?   FU.


well obviously you don't.

That's just the excuse you morons are using now to resist any changes for the sake of a few abo's. I'd bet most people wouldn't have a clue what day Phillips landed.


That's right the protesters even think it was about Capt Cook claiming Australia for the British 18 years earlier in 1770.

Phillip landed in Botany Bay on the 22nd Jan ... found it unsuitable & went off looking for a better spot .. found Sydney Cove and relocated and set up on the 26th Jan.

It's not an excuse you lame arze ... it's a fact.
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Gnads
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #217 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 7:24am
 
John Smith wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 7:35pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 7:24pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 7:22pm:
Gnads wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 5:47pm:
John Smith wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 2:11pm:
Gnads wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 10:34am:
John Smith wrote on Feb 4th, 2019 at 5:18pm:
Gnads wrote on Feb 3rd, 2019 at 5:33pm:
Just something the looney luvvies should take stock of .....



how many of those are national public holidays?


It's still days allocated & activities/celebrations organised ....

and I'll bet that if any of those who identify as AATSI, if they have a job will be allowed "cultural" leave.



you have no idea what Australia day actually means do you?


What? ... it's a recognition of Capt Arthur Phillips setting up the first settlement at Sydney Cove after first arriving at Port Jackson Botany Bay in 1788... as well as now being a celebration of this nations achievements past, present & future ... for all Australians.

Who hasn't got a clue?   FU.


well obviously you don't.

That's just the excuse you morons are using now to resist any changes for the sake of a few abo's. I'd bet most people wouldn't have a clue what day Phillips landed.

so what's your alternative to jan 26?


Glad you asked ... I haven't actually decided which way to go on this. I feel Australia day should be on the day Australia came together as a nation, 1st Jan. Before that they were all independent states. My only issue with 1st Jan is that it would get lost in the new year celebrations. I think we should keep it separate.

Maybe we can celebrate the day we came together at a date no one takes issue with? After all, we don't celebrate the queens birthday on her birthday. I don't particularly care what date. I'm grateful to be an Aussie every day. The day we celebrate it doesn't change how I feel about Australia.


They are still all independent states .... why else do we have state govts?

Sydney Cove ... whether that be in NSW doesn't matter was the first settlement on these shores ...

everything else followed from that then on after.

Not all indigenous people have an issue with the date, the vast majority of the nation don't have a problem with it & don't want it changed for a whining minority.

You want it changed to suit 300,000 Indigenes  .......plus say 200,000 lefty snowflakes

24.5 million want it left where it is.

Fargoff
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« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2019 at 7:30am by Gnads »  

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Gnads
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #218 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 7:36am
 
mothra wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 12:31am:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:10pm:
mothra wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:04pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 7:57pm:
mothra wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 7:41pm:
Gnads wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 6:07pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 5:54pm:
After all these years of whinging the abos have never given us an alternative for Jan 26. That's because it would give away what this is really all about. What they want is a treaty day like the Maori have ( Waitangi Day). It all leads to this . They want us to pay rent and the whinging  will never end until they get it.


We spent $33 billion last year on rent to 500,000 people.



https://theconversation.com/factcheck-qanda-is-30-billion-spent-every-year-on-50...

Verdict

Warren Mundine’s statement uses the most accurate and up-to-date estimate of government spending on Indigenous Australians – about $30.3 billion, according to the Productivity Commission.

However, only a small proportion of the overall Indigenous expenditure is on Indigenous-specific programs. The rest comprises the cost of providing mainstream services, such as schooling and health care, that all Australians enjoy.

His figure of 500,000 Indigenous Australians is a bit low, likely reflecting reasonably common uncertainty on this question (as well as him being on the spot on a fast-paced, live TV program).

The general point about needing “to find out where the wastage of our funding is” is important, and requires careful evaluation of the impact and cost-effectiveness of Indigenous-specific and other social programs.


So directly and indirectly $60,600  is spent every year on roughly every aboriginal person while $20,900 is spent annually (directly and indirectly) on everybody else???


Please don;t tell me i need to explain it to you?

Read it again. Slowly.

3.3 billion divided by 500,000 is $60,000+ for  each person. Now even with essential services thrown in it's way over the $20,000 with essential services for everybody else. Prison incarceration, health services, maintaining remote communities, welfare etc  all high amongst aboriginal people. I can see why they cost so much. When are they going to PAY IT BACCCKKKK! da da da.



Two things:

You evidently did not read the link. There is closer to 700.000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in Australia ... so we're just wrong from the get-go.

Secondly, the sum total is not divisible by individuals by by services provided. These are services provided to all Australian people. It costs to provide infrastructure to remote ddwelling citizens.

Now, if you feel like challenging yourself, question why Aboriginal majority townships and their residents are in such a state of neglect they require constant band-aids.

Try to do it with knee-jerk racism.

Then you might be getting closer to the reality of the situation.



700,000 that identify as ....doesn't mean they all are.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #219 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 9:03am
 
John Smith wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:29pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:25pm:
You don't care ? Jan 26 it stays then?



I don't care. Others do. If you read my comments properly you'd see that I also said ' Maybe we can celebrate the day we came together at a date no one takes issue with?

Why are you so opposed to finding a day that everyone can agree on? Do you think it'll change how you feel about australia?


99% already agree ................... would you prefer that all government in this nation be at the demand of small and vociferous minorities?

Bolshevik ....Australophobe....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #220 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 9:14am
 
mothra wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 12:31am:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:10pm:
mothra wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:04pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 7:57pm:
mothra wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 7:41pm:
Gnads wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 6:07pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 5:54pm:
After all these years of whinging the abos have never given us an alternative for Jan 26. That's because it would give away what this is really all about. What they want is a treaty day like the Maori have ( Waitangi Day). It all leads to this . They want us to pay rent and the whinging  will never end until they get it.


We spent $33 billion last year on rent to 500,000 people.



https://theconversation.com/factcheck-qanda-is-30-billion-spent-every-year-on-50...

Verdict

Warren Mundine’s statement uses the most accurate and up-to-date estimate of government spending on Indigenous Australians – about $30.3 billion, according to the Productivity Commission.

However, only a small proportion of the overall Indigenous expenditure is on Indigenous-specific programs. The rest comprises the cost of providing mainstream services, such as schooling and health care, that all Australians enjoy.

His figure of 500,000 Indigenous Australians is a bit low, likely reflecting reasonably common uncertainty on this question (as well as him being on the spot on a fast-paced, live TV program).

The general point about needing “to find out where the wastage of our funding is” is important, and requires careful evaluation of the impact and cost-effectiveness of Indigenous-specific and other social programs.


So directly and indirectly $60,600  is spent every year on roughly every aboriginal person while $20,900 is spent annually (directly and indirectly) on everybody else???


Please don;t tell me i need to explain it to you?

Read it again. Slowly.

3.3 billion divided by 500,000 is $60,000+ for  each person. Now even with essential services thrown in it's way over the $20,000 with essential services for everybody else. Prison incarceration, health services, maintaining remote communities, welfare etc  all high amongst aboriginal people. I can see why they cost so much. When are they going to PAY IT BACCCKKKK! da da da.



Two things:

You evidently did not read the link. There is closer to 700.000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in Australia ... so we're just wrong from the get-go.

Secondly, the sum total is not divisible by individuals by by services provided. These are services provided to all Australian people. It costs to provide infrastructure to remote ddwelling citizens.

Now, if you feel like challenging yourself, question why Aboriginal majority townships and their residents are in such a state of neglect they require constant band-aids.

Try to do it with knee-jerk racism.

Then you might be getting closer to the reality of the situation.



a)  There is little to no work there.

b)  There is little to no infrastructure due to low local populations.

c)  There is no incentive for those living there to do it for themselves.

d)  Local councils have little money due to all of the above to make things better.

e)  People in that situation become depressed and lost, have foreshortened horizons** on life, and see no real way out, so it becomes a never-ending cycle.

Now bring me some real hate, mothra.. John Smith... Losers Inc.  Whining about Invention Day won't change a thing, and attacking those who want Australia Day to remain as it is will only get you into a war, since you are alienating, radicalising and marginalising the majority who have done nothing to you just for some petty one-upmanship.

Hmmm - 700,000 doesn't sound like any real genocide took place...... (whine, whine, whine)....


** Example:- Selling up and moving oceanside -the ex (for whom I'm full-time carer) says she doesn't want to install rooftop solar power - too expensive. I look up systems and can get one installed for a price that will be recouped in 2-3 years - for me that's a goer and I intend to add some batteries as well.  She doesn't want to spend the money - I'll spend some of mine and she will see it when the truck arrives and the guys start putting it up ... no discussion.

She grew up poor in West Dubbo  - I grew up poorer in Newcastle..... both have 'foreshortened horizons' in some ways.... we put up with things when a little change can make the world of difference.  One of us learns from environment, the other lives in it.

People with foreshortened horizons need counseling and to learn how to make an effort.  Self-sufficiency is the way to go.... and these small and often remote areas need a review of what can and can't be done.... by the people who live there.




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« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2019 at 9:24am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #221 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 9:32am
 
The Mabo and Wik decisions declared that for Aboriginal people to retain Native Title over their land in these remote areas they must maintain a cultural link to the land (ie: remain in these remote areas)....The Government provides very limited services and has already tried to force them off their land (Howard Government intervention into remote Aboriginal territories)....The Government wants the land and Aboriginal people will not give it up....Why should they???

Huh Huh Huh

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/22/by-evicting-the-homelands-...

https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/the-point-with-stan-grant/article/2016/03/03/7-legac...
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #222 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 9:37am
 
philperth2010 wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 9:32am:
The Mabo and Wik decisions declared that for Aboriginal people to retain Native Title over their land in these remote areas they must maintain a cultural link to the land (ie: remain in these remote areas)....The Government provides very limited services and has already tried to force them off their land (Howard Government intervention into remote Aboriginal territories)....The Government wants the land and Aboriginal people will not give it up....Why should they???

Huh Huh Huh


So living in remote areas is not only a lifestyle choice but also a matter of need to retain their title?  Very interesting.. sounds like a gu'mint move to sandwich them between one fire or another.  I wasn't aware The Intervention was a move to move them off the land... but to assist them on the land.

Why can't designated and proven tribal groups or whatever retain title while living elsewhere - closer to services and such - absentee landlords of Native Title?  Plenty of absentee landlords in other arenas of landholding.  Macquarie Street farmers abound ...
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philperth2010
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #223 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 10:01am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 9:37am:
philperth2010 wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 9:32am:
The Mabo and Wik decisions declared that for Aboriginal people to retain Native Title over their land in these remote areas they must maintain a cultural link to the land (ie: remain in these remote areas)....The Government provides very limited services and has already tried to force them off their land (Howard Government intervention into remote Aboriginal territories)....The Government wants the land and Aboriginal people will not give it up....Why should they???

Huh Huh Huh


So living in remote areas is not only a lifestyle choice but also a matter of need to retain their title?  Very interesting.. sounds like a gu'mint move to sandwich them between one fire or another.  I wasn't aware The Intervention was a move to move them off the land... but to assist them on the land.

Why can't designated and proven tribal groups or whatever retain title while living elsewhere - closer to services and such - absentee landlords of Native Title?  Plenty of absentee landlords in other arenas of landholding.  Macquarie Street farmers abound ...


Native title requires Aboriginal people to maintain a cultural link to the land....Apparently living on the land for over 60 000 years is not good enough to declare ownership???

Huh Huh Huh
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Re: Up To 10,000 Invasion Day Protesters March
Reply #224 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 10:10am
 
philperth2010 wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 10:01am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 9:37am:
philperth2010 wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 9:32am:
The Mabo and Wik decisions declared that for Aboriginal people to retain Native Title over their land in these remote areas they must maintain a cultural link to the land (ie: remain in these remote areas)....The Government provides very limited services and has already tried to force them off their land (Howard Government intervention into remote Aboriginal territories)....The Government wants the land and Aboriginal people will not give it up....Why should they???

Huh Huh Huh


So living in remote areas is not only a lifestyle choice but also a matter of need to retain their title?  Very interesting.. sounds like a gu'mint move to sandwich them between one fire or another.  I wasn't aware The Intervention was a move to move them off the land... but to assist them on the land.

Why can't designated and proven tribal groups or whatever retain title while living elsewhere - closer to services and such - absentee landlords of Native Title?  Plenty of absentee landlords in other arenas of landholding.  Macquarie Street farmers abound ...


Native title requires Aboriginal people to maintain a cultural link to the land....Apparently living on the land for over 60 000 years is not good enough to declare ownership???

Huh Huh Huh


I suppose the issue is 'ownership for what purpose' - apparently the idea was that native title permitted traditional activities without interference with the activities of others, a form of apartheid if you think about it.  What this did not mean was FULL and unconditional ownership of the land, and you cannot put an argument of former informal ownership by simply being there implying full ownership now - that's been extinct for a very long time, and no nation on earth subscribes to such a silly idea.  Are you suggesting that all groups who formerly lived in areas should be handed back the whole nation on demand?  No nation on earth would remain as it is.

What are you recommending?  That the government simply hand over to Aboriginals the whole country?  If you offer that, you are encouraging civil war.  Those days are gone - get over it and get on with it.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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