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Muslims who support the Taliban (Read 21862 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #30 - Feb 8th, 2019 at 9:19am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 7th, 2019 at 7:34pm:
I think reuniting Korea would go down similar to reuniting Germany - plenty of economic issues caused by the cultural legacy of communism, but not many head hacking lunatics who actually prefer brutal, corrupt dictatorship to liberal democracy.

The war part would last about 5 minutes, provided China stayed out.


Sorry FD, is this you citing one of the drawbacks of overthrowing Islamic regimes and attempting to install democracy?

Is this one of the argument you would present for why Saudi Arabia is "somewhere near the bottom" of the regime-change list, but not Afghanistan 2001? Can you talk us through this thought process of yours without exposing yourself as an apologist for a brutal Islamic regime, or a hypocrite?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #31 - Feb 8th, 2019 at 12:49pm
 
Quote:
Sorry FD, is this you citing one of the drawbacks of overthrowing Islamic regimes and attempting to install democracy?


I may not have mentioned this before, but Islam is the greatest modern threat to freedom and democracy.

Quote:
right, so we've found a regime change of a brutal, oppressive regime that you don't support, or at least don't see it as a priority.


It would be nice to get rid of him, and comparitively easy, as his support would evaporate given the absence of an evil religion devoted to his rule. We probably would have if not for the threat of Chinese involvement on the other side. Then again, Kim would keep his head down a bit more if there was nothing stopping us.

Quote:
Is this one of the argument you would present for why Saudi Arabia is "somewhere near the bottom" of the regime-change list, but not Afghanistan 2001? Can you talk us through this thought process of yours without exposing yourself as an apologist for a brutal Islamic regime, or a hypocrite?


I think you misunderstood my "somewhere near the bottom" comment. Also, you don't seem to realise why I accuse you of being a Taliban apologist. I suggest you read the OP.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #32 - Feb 8th, 2019 at 2:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 8th, 2019 at 12:49pm:
I think you misunderstood my "somewhere near the bottom" comment.


I must have - but then again you won't explain it. I think this is what you call being slippery and evasive.

Would you support regime change in Saudi Arabia or not? Why do you cryptically raise the spectre of "head hacking lunatics who actually prefer brutal, corrupt dictatorship to liberal democracy" seemingly as an argument against removing Islamic regimes (as opposed to non-Islamic regimes like NK) - and then run away from it as soon as I ask you to elaborate?

Now might be a good time to address this - while you're not actually deflecting with false allegations of me deflecting. But now that you realise you are deflecting, I'm sure you've scrounge around for something...
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #33 - Feb 8th, 2019 at 2:47pm
 
Excuse me, FD, you forgot to answer this:

Quote:
And when you make your case for why its "somewhere near the bottom" of your "to do" regime change list, despite being about the most oppressive Islamic regime currently in existence - you are not an apologist for that regime because...?


Shurely some mishtake?
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #34 - Feb 8th, 2019 at 7:26pm
 
Quote:
Would you support regime change in Saudi Arabia or not?


Sure. Depending on the regime of course. Obviously I would like to see the spread of democratic institutions.

Quote:
Why do you cryptically raise the spectre of "head hacking lunatics who actually prefer brutal, corrupt dictatorship to liberal democracy" seemingly as an argument against removing Islamic regimes (as opposed to non-Islamic regimes like NK) - and then run away from it as soon as I ask you to elaborate?


You interpreted it as an argument against it. My argument was only that it would be a lot easier in North Korea, but only if you exclude the risk of Chinese involvement. Not sure why you think this was "cryptic". I suspect you are just looking for something that is not actually there.
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #35 - Feb 8th, 2019 at 7:34pm
 
All Muslim countries are hellish c***s of a place.  All. Some are lawless, others are not.

We leave the lawful bastards in place because they are at least keeping their Muslim  C***s in check, after a fashion. Or at least we can exert pressure on them.

The other c***s we have no influence over so we bomb them or let other Muslim c***s bomb them.

What don't you get, Paki?

They are all hideous dishonest farkers, but you can't be Roman about such barbarians any more because the UN and Amnesty would make a fuss. So we now pretend that barbarians are civilised and the civilised are barbarians.


Well, I am not doing any such pretending, I leave all that to you, Paki. Someone will give you ten rupee for being a an enemy of your own people and that will make you very pleased.



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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #36 - Feb 8th, 2019 at 8:30pm
 
FD, you didn't answer this.

Karnal wrote on Feb 8th, 2019 at 2:47pm:
Excuse me, FD, you forgot to answer this:

Quote:
And when you make your case for why its "somewhere near the bottom" of your "to do" regime change list, despite being about the most oppressive Islamic regime currently in existence - you are not an apologist for that regime because...?


Shurely some mishtake?

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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #37 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:30am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 8th, 2019 at 7:26pm:
Sure. Depending on...


What I'm getting at FD, is that on any other occasion that you're not a) blindly cheerleading US regime change or b) reflexively attacking whatever the resident muslim opposes - you actually take a more nuanced approach to regime change. Your defense of the disastrous Afghan invasion and subsequent quagmire is nothing short of shrill and completely irrational - and is clearly driven by a) not daring to question the wisdom of American military intervention (especially when its about "sticking it" to Islam) and b) clearly distinguishing yourself from the resident muslim who happens to have opposed it. Yet even with these key criterium I actually thought the sheer scale of the disaster of the invasion that has caused untold 10s of thousands of deaths and allowed bin Laden to get off the hook for 10 years - might cause some quiet reflection. Not so.

Yet you have demonstrated one thing here FD - that you are actually capable of calm, rational thought - just not when attacking Islam and/or the apologists is at stake.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #38 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:37am
 
Quote:
What I'm getting at FD, is that on any other occasion that you're not a) blindly cheerleading US regime change or b) reflexively attacking whatever the resident muslim opposes - you actually take a more nuanced approach to regime change.


And you lie about the Taliban.

Can you give an example of a regime change I have commented on that was not lead by the US?

What do you think the implications would be of letting Muslims win a war against democracy?
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #39 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:37am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:37am:
And you lie about the Taliban.


Spoken like a true hysteric.

freediver wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:37am:
What do you think the implications would be of letting Muslims win a war against democracy?


Oh, you must be talking about the wrong kind of democracy - like when post-invasion Iraq tried to set up their own local democratic councils, that would elect candidates to the new federal parliament - but was quashed, violently, by the US occupation forces - in favour of their own puppets - and then the Iraqis fought against that. Or are you talking about when the Afghanis starting pushing back on the despot Karzai who the US repeatedly rigged elections for? Or maybe you mean when the US backed the brutal dictator Suharto in his coup against Sukarno who was in the midst of pushing through democratic reforms? Iran 1953...? etc etc.

I'm wondering, has the US actually ever fought "for democracy" in any of their interventions in the muslim world? Actual democracy I mean, as in letting the people decide.
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« Last Edit: Feb 11th, 2019 at 11:10am by polite_gandalf »  

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #40 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:46pm
 
Quote:
Oh, you must be talking about the wrong kind of democracy - like when post-invasion Iraq tried to set up their own local democratic councils, that would elect candidates to the new federal parliament - but was quashed, violently, by the US occupation forces - in favour of their own puppets - and then the Iraqis fought against that.


Sounds like a backdoor to religious dictatorship to me Gandalf.
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #41 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:55pm
 
Good point FD - we can't have those pesky muslims deciding themselves what they do with their own society.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #42 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:12pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
Good point FD - we can't have those pesky muslims deciding themselves what they do with their own society.


Freeeedom, innit.
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #43 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:34pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
Good point FD - we can't have those pesky muslims deciding themselves what they do with their own society.


Yes we can Gandalf, if they have democracy. But if we had given them this backdoor Islamic dictatorship you are so fond of, they would have never gotten the chance.

So, you want to dismantle Iraq's democracy, and you will tell the most absurd and transparent lies in defence of the Taliban. Why do you always seem to side with the extremists?
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Re: Muslims who support the Taliban
Reply #44 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 10:06pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:37am:
freediver wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:37am:
And you lie about the Taliban.


Spoken like a true hysteric.

freediver wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:37am:
What do you think the implications would be of letting Muslims win a war against democracy?


Oh, you must be talking about the wrong kind of democracy - like when post-invasion Iraq tried to set up their own local democratic councils, that would elect candidates to the new federal parliament - but was quashed, violently, by the US occupation forces - in favour of their own puppets - and then the Iraqis fought against that. Or are you talking about when the Afghanis starting pushing back on the despot Karzai who the US repeatedly rigged elections for? Or maybe you mean when the US backed the brutal dictator Suharto in his coup against Sukarno who was in the midst of pushing through democratic reforms? Iran 1953...? etc etc.

I'm wondering, has the US actually ever fought "for democracy" in any of their interventions in the muslim world? Actual democracy I mean, as in letting the people decide.


But of course. They're backing MBK as we speak.

FD says the Saudis are the next South Korea. Oh, we gave Iraq a go, but that wasn't much chop. The Afghanis threw it back in our face, so ungrateful.

But we'll get Freeeeedom right one day, you'll see. You gotta have a dream, no?
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