Australian Politics Forum - Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran

freediver

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Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Jan 31^st, 2019 at 12:49pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 7:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 9:43am:

Frank wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 11:21am:

Auggie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 11:12am:

Any religion or idea is capable of reform. Change will only come. Unfortunately such change usually does not come about by peaceful means.

The Koran is the masterpiece of guidance and knowledge bestowed upon humanity by the Almighty. It cannot be modified in any way whatsoever. It is the final book. The commandments of the Almighty are entrenched in the Koran which provides for a complete way of life.

Asia Bibi, for example, was acquitted by the Supreme Court of Pakistan NOT because they threw out the sharia rules on blasphemy as outdated or irrelevant in a modern society but simply because the prosecution did not prove that the blasphemy occurred. In other words, there is not one iota of moving away from sharia law and its demands in relation to punishing blasphemy by death. Sharia rules are completely unchanged in 11400 years because the Koran's guidance is unmodifiable. For Muslims, its forever Groundhog Day of 8 June 632 AD.

The Bible sanctifies the butchering of women and children as noble acts of faith. Oh yes it does. For centuries such butchering was sanctioned by the church as noble acts of faith. And yet, you would be the first to argue that Christianity has got over that and 'reformed'.

There is nothing in Islamic doctrine that should act as an impenetrable 'never ever' road block to muslims behaving both civily and keeping in faith with their religion. Even if you insist there are specific doctrinal passages that make slaughtering innocents a compulsory act of faith (ridiculous, but I'll humour you), there's no reason why it can't be bypassed, ignored or rationalised into something more compatible with civil society. The truth is most muslims do it anyway, and on the other side of the coin, the jihadis bypass ignore or rationalise specific commands to not be intolerant butchering thugs. If Christians can get past specific doctrinal commands to punish and/or revile homosexuals and look upon women as subservient, inferior beings who must not be heard in public - into a religion that officially embraces gay rights and women's equality - then I don't think its a stretch for muslims to get over some pretty vague and ambiguous doctrinal references that allegedly condone slaughtering innocents on the basis of personal beliefs as an act of faith. For one thing, they can instead emphasise the decidedly *NON* vague and *NON ambiguous commands to accept and embrace freedom of thought in 2:256 and 18:29.

What's to stop Muslims paying attention to it again?

Would it be fair to describe you as a hypocrite for suggesting Muslims ignore those parts of the Quran they feel uncomfortable with? Or are you only suggesting that non-Muslims ignore them?

Gandalf can you explain your logic here? Is there really no reason why parts of the Quran can't simply be ignored, bypassed, rationalised etc?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95837 Gender:	Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran Reply #1 - Jan 31^st, 2019 at 9:19pm FD, you posted that. Can you explain your logic there, please? Is there any reason why parts of the Quran can't be - etc, etc, etc, Mindless Collective, traitorous Jews, so unfair, etc, etc? Cheers.
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Yadda

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #2 - Jan 31^st, 2019 at 11:06pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 9:43am:

There is nothing in Islamic doctrine that should act as an impenetrable 'never ever' road block to muslims behaving both civily and keeping in faith with their religion.

Even if you insist there are specific doctrinal passages that make slaughtering innocents a compulsory act of faith (ridiculous, but I'll humour you), there's no reason why it can't be bypassed, ignored or rationalised into something more compatible with civil society.

QUESTION;
What happens to the authority of ISLAMIC LAW,
if verses of the inerrant and immutable Koran were to be ignored - BY MOSLEMS, BY FOLLOWERS OF ISLAM, AND ISLAMIC LAW ?

Q.
Would any gathering of ISLAMIC scholars alive today, come to an agreement which would allow, some moslems, to lawfully ignore ISLAMIC LAW ?

What has that got to do, with what is within the Koran ?

ARGUMENT;

There is no ISLAMIC source which has more authority or influence upon ISLAMIC law, than the Holy Koran.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Bias_2012 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10766 Gender:	Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran Reply #3 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:06am The Government should step in and ban Sharia law and re-write the Koran
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95837 Gender:	Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran Reply #4 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 9:11am Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:06am: The Government should step in and ban Sharia law and re-write the Koran How about Jewish law and the Torah, Bias? Them too, or when we're done with the Muselman and his apologists?
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Bias_2012

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #5 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 9:47am

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 9:11am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:06am:

The Government should step in and ban Sharia law and re-write the Koran

How about Jewish law and the Torah, Bias?

Never even thought about it Karnal, have Jews killed anyone on the street lately? Islam seems to be the main problem except for the crazy politicians who let muzzos in, we'll be paying the price for that indiscretion for a long long time

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« Last Edit: Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:15pm by Bias_2012 »

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Karnal

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #6 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 10:54am

Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 9:47am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 9:11am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:06am:

The Government should step in and ban Sharia law and re-write the Koran

How about Jewish law and the Torah, Bias?

Never even though about it Karnal, have Jews killed anyone on the street lately?

No, Issue, individual Jews have. Abe Saffron used to tie them to an old washing machine and use them to feed the fish.?

I'm not sure what a subject like family and contract law has to do with killing people on the streets though.

You?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #7 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 11:37am

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2019 at 12:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 7:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 30^th, 2019 at 9:43am:

Frank wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 11:21am:

Auggie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2019 at 11:12am:

Any religion or idea is capable of reform. Change will only come. Unfortunately such change usually does not come about by peaceful means.

The Koran is the masterpiece of guidance and knowledge bestowed upon humanity by the Almighty. It cannot be modified in any way whatsoever. It is the final book. The commandments of the Almighty are entrenched in the Koran which provides for a complete way of life.

Asia Bibi, for example, was acquitted by the Supreme Court of Pakistan NOT because they threw out the sharia rules on blasphemy as outdated or irrelevant in a modern society but simply because the prosecution did not prove that the blasphemy occurred. In other words, there is not one iota of moving away from sharia law and its demands in relation to punishing blasphemy by death. Sharia rules are completely unchanged in 11400 years because the Koran's guidance is unmodifiable. For Muslims, its forever Groundhog Day of 8 June 632 AD.

The Bible sanctifies the butchering of women and children as noble acts of faith. Oh yes it does. For centuries such butchering was sanctioned by the church as noble acts of faith. And yet, you would be the first to argue that Christianity has got over that and 'reformed'.

There is nothing in Islamic doctrine that should act as an impenetrable 'never ever' road block to muslims behaving both civily and keeping in faith with their religion. Even if you insist there are specific doctrinal passages that make slaughtering innocents a compulsory act of faith (ridiculous, but I'll humour you), there's no reason why it can't be bypassed, ignored or rationalised into something more compatible with civil society. The truth is most muslims do it anyway, and on the other side of the coin, the jihadis bypass ignore or rationalise specific commands to not be intolerant butchering thugs. If Christians can get past specific doctrinal commands to punish and/or revile homosexuals and look upon women as subservient, inferior beings who must not be heard in public - into a religion that officially embraces gay rights and women's equality - then I don't think its a stretch for muslims to get over some pretty vague and ambiguous doctrinal references that allegedly condone slaughtering innocents on the basis of personal beliefs as an act of faith. For one thing, they can instead emphasise the decidedly *NON* vague and *NON ambiguous commands to accept and embrace freedom of thought in 2:256 and 18:29.

What's to stop Muslims paying attention to it again?

Would it be fair to describe you as a hypocrite for suggesting Muslims ignore those parts of the Quran they feel uncomfortable with? Or are you only suggesting that non-Muslims ignore them?

Gandalf can you explain your logic here? Is there really no reason why parts of the Quran can't simply be ignored, bypassed, rationalised etc?

This is the problem with highlighting and focusing only on half a sentence.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #8 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 11:46am

Quranic verses that jihadis and Islamophobes alike bypass, ignor or rationalise into something more compatible with their narrow views:

"no compulsion in religion" (2:256)

"The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." (18:29)

"Allah guides those who pursue His pleasure to the ways of peace and brings them out from darknesses into the light, by His permission, and guides them to a straight path." (5:16)

"Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors." (2:193)

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49062 At my desk.	Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran Reply #9 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:13pm The Jihadis are trying to kill people, not convert them Gandalf. Can you explain your logic? Are you saying that ignoring the bits of the Quran you don't like is a reasonable expectation of Muslims because you believe the jihadis must be doing it?
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Bias_2012

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #10 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:25pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 10:54am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 9:47am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 9:11am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:06am:

The Government should step in and ban Sharia law and re-write the Koran

How about Jewish law and the Torah, Bias?

Never even thought about it Karnal, have Jews killed anyone on the street lately?

No, Issue, individual Jews have. Abe Saffron used to tie them to an old washing machine and use them to feed the fish.?

You?

Who's bible is that in Karnal? - and who are you talking to, me or Issuevoter?

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Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable

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Karnal

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #11 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:30pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:25pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 10:54am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 9:47am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 9:11am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:06am:

The Government should step in and ban Sharia law and re-write the Koran

How about Jewish law and the Torah, Bias?

Never even thought about it Karnal, have Jews killed anyone on the street lately?

No, Issue, individual Jews have. Abe Saffron used to tie them to an old washing machine and use them to feed the fish.?

You?

Who's bible is that in Karnal? - and who are you talking to, me or Issuevoter?

Sorry, Bias, you. The Torah is the Old Testament.

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Karnal

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #12 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:32pm

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:13pm:

The Jihadis are trying to kill people, not convert them Gandalf.

Can you explain your logic? Are you saying that ignoring the bits of the Quran you don't like is a reasonable expectation of Muslims because you believe the jihadis must be doing it?

Muslim drug dealers ignore bits of the Quran too, FD, but that doesn't stop decent white people everywhere from blaming Islam.

Muslim drunks, Muslim mortgage brokers, Muslim insurance agents, Muslim suicide bombers, all ignore the bits of the Quran they don't like.

You?

Don't answer that.

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« Last Edit: Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:38pm by Karnal »

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Secret Wars

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #13 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:45pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:13pm:

The Jihadis are trying to kill people, not convert them Gandalf.

Can you explain your logic? Are you saying that ignoring the bits of the Quran you don't like is a reasonable expectation of Muslims because you believe the jihadis must be doing it?

Muslim drug dealers ignore bits of the Quran too, FD, but that doesn't stop decent white people everywhere from blaming Islam.

Muslim drunks, Muslim mortgage brokers, Muslim insurance agents, Muslim suicide bombers, all ignore the bits of the Quran they don't like.

You?

Don't answer that.

That's a good point, it's one that Brian as an apologist uses as a crutch. If a Muslim does something contrary to the Koran, or Islam, (which, is never too clear) they are not weeeely a Muslim, therefore, ipso facto, cos Brian like to throw in a bit of Latin, (even if he doesn't understand it) it's not weeeely Islamic, therefore, ...kiddies can see where the logic is going, ...its nuffin to do wiv Islam.

And Brian is a doctor so he knows. Cool

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Brian Ross

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #14 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:01pm

Secret Wars wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:45pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:13pm:

The Jihadis are trying to kill people, not convert them Gandalf.

Can you explain your logic? Are you saying that ignoring the bits of the Quran you don't like is a reasonable expectation of Muslims because you believe the jihadis must be doing it?

Muslim drug dealers ignore bits of the Quran too, FD, but that doesn't stop decent white people everywhere from blaming Islam.

Muslim drunks, Muslim mortgage brokers, Muslim insurance agents, Muslim suicide bombers, all ignore the bits of the Quran they don't like.

You?

Don't answer that.

That's a good point, it's one that Brian as an apologist uses as a crutch. If a Muslim does something contrary to the Koran, or Islam, (which, is never too clear) they are not weeeely a Muslim, therefore, ipso facto, cos Brian like to throw in a bit of Latin, (even if he doesn't understand it) it's not weeeely Islamic, therefore, ...kiddies can see where the logic is going, ...its nuffin to do wiv Islam.

And Brian is a doctor so he knows. Cool

So, Christians who ignore the "love thy neighbour" bit and the bit about "not throwing the first stone," in the Bible really are Christians afterall, Secret? Moses contends otherwise. What do you think? Is Christian Terrorism anything to do with Christianity or is it counter to Christianity? Mmmmm? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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