Australian Politics Forum - Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin

Captain Nemo

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #105 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:32pm

Don't know where the $8 Billion figure comes from.

On Bowen's own figures, the hit is on 850,000 accounts averaging $5,000 per year to be grabbed from self-funded retirees.

That's $4.25 Billion per year.

Mind you, Bowen's a nong. His original plan was for $5 Billion per year, but he was forced to cut out pensioners after the initial outcry.

He will probably fall well short of his planned tax grab when lots of investors bail out of shares anyway.

Of course, the recession that he will bring about will further cut his tax revenue stream and it's going to get really ugly really fast. Shocked

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« Last Edit: Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:38pm by Captain Nemo »

The 2025 election could be a shocker.

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crocodile

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #106 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 11:04pm

lee wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:17pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm:

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

The consensus argument. No one but us does it so it must be wrong. Grin

Some other countries hang poofters too. Should we follow suit.

How many other countries tax corporations at 30% and then tax the dividends at the marginal income tax rate. To all the fukkwits that don't get it, that's why we have an imputed credit.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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philperth2010

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #107 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 12:29am

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 11:04pm:

lee wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:17pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm:

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

The consensus argument. No one but us does it so it must be wrong. Grin

Some other countries hang poofters too. Should we follow suit.

How many other countries tax corporations at 30% and then tax the dividends at the marginal income tax rate. To all the fukkwits that don't get it, that's why we have an imputed credit.

The taxpayers are subsidising your income....The scheme was only ever meant to eliminate double taxation not be an income stream for investors....To all the fukkwits that don't get it....The taxpayer should not be subsidising your f@#king income!!!

Smiley

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« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2019 at 12:37am by philperth2010 »

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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crocodile

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #108 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 5:27am

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 12:29am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 11:04pm:

lee wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:17pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm:

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

The consensus argument. No one but us does it so it must be wrong. Grin

Some other countries hang poofters too. Should we follow suit.

How many other countries tax corporations at 30% and then tax the dividends at the marginal income tax rate. To all the fukkwits that don't get it, that's why we have an imputed credit.

The taxpayers are subsidising your income....The scheme was only ever meant to eliminate double taxation not be an income stream for investors....To all the fukkwits that don't get it....The taxpayer should not be subsidising your f@#king income!!!

Smiley

It's still taxed at their marginal rate you imbecile. Their marginal rate just happens to be zero when they're below the tax free threshold. All of a sudden, just because they happen to be franked shares there's no tax free threshold anymore. It won't affect me anyway. just another one of shortarse's vis and vats poorly thought out money grabs.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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stunspore

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #109 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 6:20am

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:20pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm:

The scheme was introduced to prevent double taxation....The taxpayer should not be subsidising anyone's personal income above the social security safety net....This must be reigned in!!!

Quote:

Keating introduced dividend imputation in 1987 to prevent the double taxation of dividends, once as company profits and once as personal income, and the Howard government then enhanced the scheme by allowing individuals and super funds to claim cash refunds for any excess imputation credits not used to offset their tax liabilities.

In a speech in Sydney on Tuesday, Shorten will characterise the current arrangements as “unsustainable largesse for high-income earners”, which, if left unchecked, will cost the budget “$8bn every single year”.

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

Australians will continue to be able to use imputation credits to reduce their tax liabilities, “but not to claim cash refunds”.

The age of entitlement is over....Pay your taxes you bastards!!!

Angry

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/mar/13/labor-to-axe-cash-refunds...

That nails the whole problem ...

"Australians will continue to be able to use imputation credits to reduce their tax liabilities, “but not to claim cash refunds”

Discriminates against the low income self-funded retirees. Angry

Low income and high assets retirees. Consume your super, not hang onto it to pass it down!

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philperth2010

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #110 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 7:21am

crocodile wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 5:27am:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 12:29am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 11:04pm:

lee wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:17pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm:

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

The consensus argument. No one but us does it so it must be wrong. Grin

Some other countries hang poofters too. Should we follow suit.

How many other countries tax corporations at 30% and then tax the dividends at the marginal income tax rate. To all the fukkwits that don't get it, that's why we have an imputed credit.

The taxpayers are subsidising your income....The scheme was only ever meant to eliminate double taxation not be an income stream for investors....To all the fukkwits that don't get it....The taxpayer should not be subsidising your f@#king income!!!

Smiley

It's still taxed at their marginal rate you imbecile. Their marginal rate just happens to be zero when they're below the tax free threshold. All of a sudden, just because they happen to be franked shares there's no tax free threshold anymore. It won't affect me anyway. just another one of shortarse's vis and vats poorly thought out money grabs.

You are being refunded by the taxpayer for tax never paid you sponging bastards....It will cost taxpayers $8 billion a year to supplement investors income for no other reason that owning franked shares....You do realise the only reason this scheme was introduced was to eliminate double taxation (something you avoid addressing) not to provide an income stream for wealthy investors who are sponging off the taxpayer....Why should taxpayers supplement investors income you wanker???

Huh

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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crocodile

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #111 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 8:41am

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 7:21am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 5:27am:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 12:29am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 11:04pm:

lee wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:17pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm:

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

The consensus argument. No one but us does it so it must be wrong. Grin

Some other countries hang poofters too. Should we follow suit.

How many other countries tax corporations at 30% and then tax the dividends at the marginal income tax rate. To all the fukkwits that don't get it, that's why we have an imputed credit.

The taxpayers are subsidising your income....The scheme was only ever meant to eliminate double taxation not be an income stream for investors....To all the fukkwits that don't get it....The taxpayer should not be subsidising your f@#king income!!!

Smiley

It's still taxed at their marginal rate you imbecile. Their marginal rate just happens to be zero when they're below the tax free threshold. All of a sudden, just because they happen to be franked shares there's no tax free threshold anymore. It won't affect me anyway. just another one of shortarse's vis and vats poorly thought out money grabs.

You are being refunded by the taxpayer for tax never paid you sponging bastards....It will cost taxpayers $8 billion a year to supplement investors income for no other reason that owning franked shares....You do realise the only reason this scheme was introduced was to eliminate double taxation (something you avoid addressing) not to provide an income stream for wealthy investors who are sponging off the taxpayer....Why should taxpayers supplement investors income you wanker???

Huh

You fukkin dopey colostomy bag. The refund is for tax that should not have been paid in the first place. no different from you getting a tax refund at the end of the year if it turns out you've paid more than you should. Especially if you happen to be under the tax free threshold. The double taxation has already been addressed but a blind idiot like you can't see it. Anyone under the tax free threshold has already been assessed at this marginal rate. They have no tax to pay and are entitled to any tax paid on their behalf. Stop wasting everyone's time you ignorant arsehole.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Captain Nemo

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #112 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 8:46am

crocodile wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 5:27am:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 12:29am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 11:04pm:

lee wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:17pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm:

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

The consensus argument. No one but us does it so it must be wrong. Grin

Some other countries hang poofters too. Should we follow suit.

How many other countries tax corporations at 30% and then tax the dividends at the marginal income tax rate. To all the fukkwits that don't get it, that's why we have an imputed credit.

The taxpayers are subsidising your income....The scheme was only ever meant to eliminate double taxation not be an income stream for investors....To all the fukkwits that don't get it....The taxpayer should not be subsidising your f@#king income!!!

Smiley

It's still taxed at their marginal rate you imbecile. Their marginal rate just happens to be zero when they're below the tax free threshold. All of a sudden, just because they happen to be franked shares there's no tax free threshold anymore. It won't affect me anyway. just another one of shortarse's vis and vats poorly thought out money grabs.

Well said sir! Cool

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The 2025 election could be a shocker.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 83847 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin Reply #113 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 12:48pm Abolish franked dividends - no problem left....
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #114 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 12:50pm

crocodile wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 8:41am:

You fukkin dopey colostomy bag. The refund is for tax that should not have been paid in the first place. no different from you getting a tax refund at the end of the year if it turns out you've paid more than you should. Especially if you happen to be under the tax free threshold. The double taxation has already been addressed but a blind idiot like you can't see it. Anyone under the tax free threshold has already been assessed at this marginal rate. They have no tax to pay and are entitled to any tax paid on their behalf. Stop wasting everyone's time you ignorant arsehole.

That's you argument - not your personal vitriol.... get with it...

Easy way is to not have the company pay the tax in advance and then resolve all your own personal tax issues. No argument left, easy as pie....

However, your entire income structure(s) will need to be vetted by an enhanced ATO before you get anything.. too many loop-holes and hidey-holes.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #115 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 12:53pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 11:04pm:

lee wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:17pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 10:06pm:

Shorten will argue the Howard government’s extension of the scheme “entirely distorts the original design of the dividend imputation system” and has left Australia as the only country in the OECD with a fully refundable dividend imputation credit system.

The consensus argument. No one but us does it so it must be wrong. Grin

Some other countries hang poofters too. Should we follow suit.

How many other countries tax corporations at 30% and then tax the dividends at the marginal income tax rate. To all the fukkwits that don't get it, that's why we have an imputed credit.

Average company tax is 12% .... and for the last time, company tax and personal income tax of shareholders are two totally different things...

Again - is no dividend imputation, is no problem..... abolish franked dividends entirely.. no argument.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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John Smith

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #116 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 3:43pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 9:39pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:51pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 8:35pm:

You can repeat it forever. Still, you can't get it through your thick, stupid skull that

The shareholders own the company

No one is disputing who owns the company

You've also in the past argued that we need to cut company tax.

Tell me, according to you, if shareholders pay the tax and not companies ... why bother lowering company tax? Cheesy

Because retained earnings is what drives productivity. Improvements to the capital / labour ratio is good for workers. Taxing it is a tax on wages.

For fukk sake, buy a textbook.

you're assuming that any money they save in tax is retained and not paid out in dividends. How convenient for you Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74262 Gender:	Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin Reply #117 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 3:45pm crocodile wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 11:04pm: Some other countries hang poofters too. Should we follow suit. But MOST countries do not ... do you know what consensus means?
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philperth2010

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Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin
Reply #118 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 5:25pm

crocodile wrote on Mar 1^st, 2019 at 8:41am:

You fukkin dopey colostomy bag. The refund is for tax that should not have been paid in the first place. no different from you getting a tax refund at the end of the year if it turns out you've paid more than you should. Especially if you happen to be under the tax free threshold. The double taxation has already been addressed but a blind idiot like you can't see it. Anyone under the tax free threshold has already been assessed at this marginal rate. They have no tax to pay and are entitled to any tax paid on their behalf. Stop wasting everyone's time you ignorant arsehole.

The vast majority of this rort goes to the wealthy....The company paid the tax you dickhead as all companies do....This rort allows investors to claw back tax the company has paid....Why should taxpayers refund tax not paid ass hole....Now crawl back into your swamp you slimy reptile???

Quote:

They become tax-free for shareholders on a 30 per cent marginal rate, and for those on a lower tax bracket the excess franking credits could be used to offset other taxable income.

In 2000, the Howard/Costello government changed the rules so that if the franking credits more than offset an investor’s entire tax bill, they’d receive a cash refund on any excess franking credits.

The cost: When the Howard government first changed the rules, the cash refund total was estimated at about $400 million a year. This has now risen to $5 billion a year as investors worked out how to benefit from the change.

Proposed ALP changes: To take dividend imputation back to the original rules of simply stopping double taxation of dividends. No cash refunds. If you pay no tax then you don’t need a franking credit because you’re not being double taxed. Pensioners and part-pensioners would be exempt and still receive cash refunds.

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Unknown, Hanlon's Razor

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Captain Nemo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9935 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Labor's Election Plans Without The Spin Reply #119 - Mar 1^st, 2019 at 5:41pm May as well face it, this thread is full of it.
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